Henry posted:WaPo thinks Packers should tank.
Of course that would almost certainly lead to the coaching staff disappearing as well. I'm all for it.
and with the 3rd overall pick the GBP take: an offensive lineman
that's my guess what tanking would get us cuz Bulaga, dog bless him, has got to be nearing the end.
They may tank, but it won't be by design. That's just not anything a MM led team is going to do. Probably do just well enough to not make the playoffs and still draft outside the top 10.
I still think there is a lot of talent on defense. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels (minus the idiot penalties), CM3, Nick Perry, Burnett, and Dix would start for most teams in the league. Josh Jones and King are keepers. Martinez is not a slouch. The only guy you look at on defense and think he's individually terrible is Fackrell.
I kind of thought Dom was an average DC, but last night was just awful in terms of the schemes. They'd blitz 6 guys and not even touch Stafford. Stafford could read what was coming easily almost every play. The defensive scheme is stagnant. The defense is like the offense in that they do the same thing over and over - Bo Ryan style. We do we what we do and make the other team adjust. That works well when you have superstar players to make plays - like Charles Woodson, like the 2010-12 version of CM3. Like Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre.
I'm not sure how much talent there is on offense. We all love Jordy Nelson. Cobb and Adams have their moments as well. But how do they really compare to some other guys out there? How would Stephan Diggs, Golden Tate, or god forbid someone like Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones look with Rodgers throwing to them? Our receivers don't have to get as open (although a few times they appeared to be open without Hundley able to find them). I also wonder if our OL is specifically built to feature Rodgers' strengths. Our OL sustain their blocks for a long time while Rodgers runs around. They tend to get beat at the snap more than you'd like, but Rodgers is as good as any QB I've ever seen at avoiding the rush and running into open space to buy time while our OL seem to recover well and sustain blocks. That approach does not work with an average QB.
Final point. They aren't winning anything with Hundley. We now have a three game sample with a month of practice reps. The fact that Matt Flynn was functional in this system despite lacking arm strength is the one argument that MM can make the offense work without a HOF QB.
What is #12's contract situation?
Pikes Peak posted:What is #12's contract situation?
He's signed for 2018 and 2019 at 21 million a year. Interestingly, there is no dead cap money if he is traded or retires after this year.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/gre.../aaron-rodgers-3745/
I will get angry at every loss along the way, but if it at least gets this coaching staff dumped in the end it might be worth it. I have zero concerns about Rodgers switching to a new system. The only times the offense really works is when Rodgers a) makes an amazing throw, b) exploits something with a call at the line, or c) hard count and a freebie bomb.
He's a smart guy, he can handle any system. 3rd year for Hundley and McCarthy's vaunted QB school and these are the results we get? Nah. It's not good enough.
Pikes Peak posted:What is #12's contract situation?
Upcoming? 2 years 2 billion dollars.
Henry posted:Pikes Peak posted:What is #12's contract situation?
Upcoming? 2 years 2 billion dollars.
Underpaid
If any of you young fans want to know what the 1970s and 80s felt like this is it. Except there was no hope. At least with Rodgers on board there is hope but the play last night was the norm for those years. Except for a few great games when Lynn Dickey was here. The defenses looked the same tho. A few good players like Willie Buchanon, Ted The Mad Stork Hendricks, Tim Lewis, and John Anderson.A few good players but the team could not stop anybody.
MichiganPacker posted:I still think there is a lot of talent on defense. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels (minus the idiot penalties)
Just dumb by Daniels..the D actually stopped them and he pulls that crap.....
Brady has the rings but after seeing this mess there is no way Brady is better than Rodgers straight up. I would've disagreed with my assessment a few weeks ago.
Dave in GA posted:
MichiganPacker posted:I still think there is a lot of talent on defense. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels (minus the idiot penalties)
Just dumb by Daniels..the D actually stopped them and he pulls that crap.....
in the same breath, that was one of weakest personal foul calls I've ever seen. could have easily been nothing, move along, and no one would have talked about it today or clamored for justice for a missed call. but it is a frustrating thing we get with Daniels - he's never learned.
Floridarob posted:If any of you young fans want to know what the 1970s and 80s felt like this is it. Except there was no hope. At least with Rodgers on board there is hope but the play last night was the norm for those years. Except for a few great games when Lynn Dickey was here. The defenses looked the same tho. A few good players like Willie Buchanon, Ted The Mad Stork Hendricks, Tim Lewis, and John Anderson.A few good players but the team could not stop anybody.
While there are differences, the team's play right now reminds me of when QB Don Majkowski went down with a rotator cuff in 1990 and guys like Anthony Dilweg and Blair Kiel (not the poster, the ex-Notre Dame QB) were forced to keep the ship righted the end of the year and they weren't up to the task. At least that team won a couple of games during Majkowski's holdout and then injury absence. This year's team may be hard pressed to win a couple more games the way they look right now.
Tdog posted:Henry posted:WaPo thinks Packers should tank.
Of course that would almost certainly lead to the coaching staff disappearing as well. I'm all for it.
and with the 3rd overall pick the GBP take: an offensive lineman
that's my guess what tanking would get us cuz Bulaga, dog bless him, has got to be nearing the end.
I could live with an OT, but I'd prefer a dynamic pass rusher/destroyer like Khalil Mack. I think Matthews is done and Perry can't stay healthy.
Floridarob posted:If any of you young fans want to know what the 1970s and 80s felt like this is it. Except there was no hope. At least with Rodgers on board there is hope but the play last night was the norm for those years. Except for a few great games when Lynn Dickey was here. The defenses looked the same tho. A few good players like Willie Buchanon, Ted The Mad Stork Hendricks, Tim Lewis, and John Anderson.A few good players but the team could not stop anybody.
Disagree. Most of the young fans remember the last time the Packers were like this. The 6-10 2008 Packers, led by a 4th year 1st time starter @ QB, the team only one year removed from a loss in the NFC championship game.
Better analogy IMO. Now if we go on a decade or two slide, well then...
Just a thought, did the fact the Loins played Pittsburgh last week (don't they kinda run Dom's D) help them in last nights game? Kinda like facing 2 pitchers in a row that throw the same junk.
I'll hang up and listen.
That may be comparable to running a 40M between Rich Eisen and Deion Sanders. They're both talking heads that may be running the same race, and that's where the comparison ends.
Brak posted:Floridarob posted:If any of you young fans want to know what the 1970s and 80s felt like this is it. Except there was no hope. At least with Rodgers on board there is hope but the play last night was the norm for those years. Except for a few great games when Lynn Dickey was here. The defenses looked the same tho. A few good players like Willie Buchanon, Ted The Mad Stork Hendricks, Tim Lewis, and John Anderson.A few good players but the team could not stop anybody.
Disagree. Most of the young fans remember the last time the Packers were like this. The 6-10 2008 Packers, led by a 4th year 1st time starter @ QB, the team only one year removed from a loss in the NFC championship game.
Better analogy IMO. Now if we go on a decade or two slide, well then...
This might be worse than 2008 but there are some similarities. One major difference, Rodgers showed signs here and there of his future greatness in 2008. He wasn't a polished product yet and there were some doubts about him exiting that year, but overall he looked pretty good. Hundley hasn't shown anything close to that yet.
Rodgers injury to his throwing side collarbone will concern me until I can see that he can still throw the ball the same way, and that he will still use his legs to make things happen.
fightphoe93 posted:Brak posted:Floridarob posted:If any of you young fans want to know what the 1970s and 80s felt like this is it. Except there was no hope. At least with Rodgers on board there is hope but the play last night was the norm for those years. Except for a few great games when Lynn Dickey was here. The defenses looked the same tho. A few good players like Willie Buchanon, Ted The Mad Stork Hendricks, Tim Lewis, and John Anderson.A few good players but the team could not stop anybody.
Disagree. Most of the young fans remember the last time the Packers were like this. The 6-10 2008 Packers, led by a 4th year 1st time starter @ QB, the team only one year removed from a loss in the NFC championship game.
Better analogy IMO. Now if we go on a decade or two slide, well then...
This might be worse than 2008 but there are some similarities. One major difference, Rodgers showed signs here and there of his future greatness in 2008. He wasn't a polished product yet and there were some doubts about him exiting that year, but overall he looked pretty good. Hundley hasn't shown anything close to that yet.
In 2008, Aaron Rodgers threw for over 4000 yards with 28 TDs and 13 Interceptions. He averaged 7.5 YPA. In his first three games he had 4 TDs and 0 interceptions. In his 10 losses that year, the defense gave up an average of 28 points including games where they gave up 51, 35, and 30. Rodgers lost three games where the offense put up over 27 points.
If you extrapolate Hundley's three games (two against average at best defenses), to a full season he's on pace to throw for 2607 yards with 5 TDs and 21 interceptions. He is averaging 5.0 YPA. The offense has put up 10, 17, and 17 points.
+ Times Four is more interesting when the Pack loses!
fightphoe93 posted:Brak posted:This might be worse than 2008 but there are some similarities. One major difference, Rodgers showed signs here and there of his future greatness in 2008. He wasn't a polished product yet and there were some doubts about him exiting that year, but overall he looked pretty good. Hundley hasn't shown anything close to that yet.
Major difference there is that Rodgers was the starter as soon as 4 retired. So he had the entire camp to get ready.
Lookit, I've got my head so far up MM's ass that I can't see straight. But geez, it seems like we're going off the rails as far as being fans and having realistic expectations right now. When 12 went down, my expectations lowered to the point that I just enjoy being able to watch my team whenever I can. Someday that won't be the case.
Right said, Fred.
fightphoe93 posted:This might be worse than 2008 but there are some similarities. One major difference, Rodgers showed signs here and there of his future greatness in 2008. He wasn't a polished product yet and there were some doubts about him exiting that year, but overall he looked pretty good.
Who exactly were you watching in 2008, because it clearly wasn't Aaron Rodgers.
He finished the year 6th best QBR, 9th in Y/A, 4th in TD%. I mean good lord, in his 1st year as a starter he was clearly a top 5-7 QB in the NFL. I mean, I guess you can argue that it wasn't clear then that he'd be the best QB in the NFL and maybe of all time, but to say he showed signs "here and there" is the biggest understatement of all time. He had a season in 2008 that 80% of the NFL would kill for any single year.
Dave in GA posted:
MichiganPacker posted:I still think there is a lot of talent on defense. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels (minus the idiot penalties)
Just dumb by Daniels..the D actually stopped them and he pulls that crap.....
Well, he made up for it with all those plays afterwards.
CAPackFan95 posted:fightphoe93 posted:This might be worse than 2008 but there are some similarities. One major difference, Rodgers showed signs here and there of his future greatness in 2008. He wasn't a polished product yet and there were some doubts about him exiting that year, but overall he looked pretty good.
Who exactly were you watching in 2008, because it clearly wasn't Aaron Rodgers.
He finished the year 6th best QBR, 9th in Y/A, 4th in TD%. I mean good lord, in his 1st year as a starter he was clearly a top 5-7 QB in the NFL. I mean, I guess you can argue that it wasn't clear then that he'd be the best QB in the NFL and maybe of all time, but to say he showed signs "here and there" is the biggest understatement of all time. He had a season in 2008 that 80% of the NFL would kill for any single year.
Yup! Unless you were a Favre worshiper, 2008 Rodgers was da bomb in every way except he got injured.
Brainwashed Boris posted:Rodgers obviously covers a lot of ills. When you lose the best player on the planet at the most important position......it ain't rocket surgery.
However, the defense was F**King phenomenal early in the season vs. Seattle.
Game 1 is always a tough read...some teams come out and play really well, and then fall flat, and vice versa. Seattle game was obvi the outlier.
But then they put some plays on film, and teams adjust...and Compers adjusts...his hair piece.
Goalline posted:Dave in GA posted:
MichiganPacker posted:I still think there is a lot of talent on defense. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels (minus the idiot penalties)
Just dumb by Daniels..the D actually stopped them and he pulls that crap.....
Well, he made up for it with all those plays afterwards.
well sure...but it paved the way for the Lions first TD, and they had stopped them...very aggravating
Dave in GA posted:Goalline posted:Dave in GA posted:
MichiganPacker posted:I still think there is a lot of talent on defense. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels (minus the idiot penalties)
Just dumb by Daniels..the D actually stopped them and he pulls that crap.....
Well, he made up for it with all those plays afterwards.
well sure...but it paved the way for the Lions first TD, and they had stopped them...very aggravating
I believe the comment "all those plays afterwards" was sarcasm.
Hundley looks like a nervous chipmunk (13 lined ground squirrel?) out there.
Kid needs a little arrogance.
It's coming time for a rebuilding, but I want to see different defensive coaching first and see if that makes a difference. I think we have a lot of good D players, but they are confused, misused, and are not being used as they could be. Who wouldn't want to see Jones and King, along with Martinez, Biegel and Clark, develop? But I fear that if Dom stays for another year, those guys will regress much like HaHa has. If we get better D coaching for next year and the O doesn't play better, then it's time to start over.
MichiganPacker posted:... We all love Jordy Nelson. Cobb and Adams have their moments as well. But how do they really compare to some other guys out there? How would Stephan Diggs, Golden Tate, or god forbid someone like Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones look with Rodgers throwing to them?
How would Golden Tate and rest do with Hundley? I still think our receivers are fine.
Esox posted:MichiganPacker posted:... We all love Jordy Nelson. Cobb and Adams have their moments as well. But how do they really compare to some other guys out there? How would Stephan Diggs, Golden Tate, or god forbid someone like Calvin Johnson or Julio Jones look with Rodgers throwing to them?
How would Golden Tate and rest do with Hundley? I still think our receivers are fine.
Our receivers are fine. They are just not star level.
The players are fine, TT is fine, MM is fine. Could we do better? Sure, but look around the league at the inept front offices and coaching staffs (see the Giants after they ran Coughlin out of town, it *can* get worse).
IMO we have two problems. Hundley isn't Rodgers (who is) and hasn't shown up yet, and you can't force the offense to score 30+ points every game and expect to win (even with Rodgers).
IMO, the only real change needs to be the D coordinator. Just too many points being scored every week, and all that has been masked because Rodgers is a once-in-a-generation player.
Defense wins championships. Dom's gotta go.
Maybe they're not all star level, but how many teams have across-the-board receivers as strong as ours? Yes, Jones, Diggs, etc., are stars but the quality drops off pretty fast after those guys. But your point about giving Rodgers one star receiver is interesting. Would Rodgers be better with one superstar WR? Would his personal stats be better? Would the team have a worse or better record? However, we know it would all be for naught because if that superstar WR was a Packer, he would for sure get injured and then the offense would be up s*** creek anyway.
I saw somewhere online today where the Packers have not drafted a skill position player on offense in the top 50 picks of the draft in 9 years (Jordy was the 36th pick in 2008). Other than Rodgers, the last first round pick they spent on an offensive skill position player was in 2002 (Javon Walker) and Greg Jennings was the 52nd pick in 2006. Not coincidently, those are probably the 3 most physically talented receivers they've had in the last 15 years (Walker was a one shot wonder - but very physically talented)
It's a product of not using a pick for a RB, WR, or TE in the first round and not picking until the end of the 2nd round for years.
Running backs are less valued, but they've not had a first round or high second round receiver in a long time. The physically talented freak WRs go early. TT's strategy was to get a bunch of very good to excellent WRs who may struggle to get the Julio Jones type separation and let Rodgers make it work. Nelson at his peak was a solid #1, but basically it's a bunch of #2 and #3 type receivers on most teams right now.
It's stunning to think we've probably underestimated how good Rodgers is. I think it's very unlikely Brady does what Rodgers has done for the last 4-5 years with this level of talent. No other QB is even in the conversation.
Scott Catron posted:Worst part is I'll probably not get many more of their games in Utah. Every game this season has been broadcast here so far. Figuring that won't happen starting this week. Steelers and Vikings games are national broadcasts, but I don't see the local Fox or CBS station wanting to show any of the other games.
Yep, just as I thought, no Packer game in Utah this week:
If the Packers are picking 3rd, there's gonna be a lot of teams wanting to move up and take QB there.
Tradeback Ted will be salivating.
If anybody would ask me, and they ain't done it yet, "what do I think of the Packers execution?" I'd say "I'm all for it!"
Well...add Marcellus Bennett to the fire sale as he was just released for not disclosing a prior injury...eg I'm just done with this dumpster fire that doesn't include Rogers. What a dousch.
