Frontline: League of Denial

I'm feeling terrible.....I don't think I can watch the whole program.  OMGosh....I knew it was bad, but how bad???  and then the replays, in slow motion.....over, and over.    I used to love the welterweight boxing matches back in the day, you know, Roberto Durand, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard Marvin Hagler....I quit watching them because of the brutality .....I might have to quit watching football too.  It's bad.   

What channel/network?

PBS.

I buy the evidence on concussions, and that playing football is a direct cause of brain trauma and injury.

But I don't buy that even if the NFL were to admit that's true, that it would spell the end for football.

They'll pay you $13 million a year for playing a damn game. NO way in hell that profession is going anywhere. 

This is an awesome program..

Dr Ann McKee, who was speaking about concussions, is a friend of mine. I guess that makes me pretty special.

Most guys come out of it just fine, but there has always been a sizable minority that doesn't. There is obviously some genetic component to these head injuries that isn't yet understood. They've drawn strong correlations between certain genes and these injuries, but there's still a lot of research to be done. Another explanation for all these brain trauma cases that is almost never talked about is substance abuse. Drugs like cocaine, meth and ecstasy have a very short half life in the body (marijuana is the only one that lingers, it's also the one that 99% get caught with), does anyone doubt that these guys are using this stuff like there's no tomorrow when they go to da club? Mike Webster, one of the most famous head injury cases was an infamous cokehead during Pittsburgh's glory years.

I agree.  But don't forget that for every "brain injured" football player there are plenty of people who have never gone thru the trauma of playing the game that have brain damage - Alzheimer, etc.  I am not minimizing the brain injuries of football players, just pointing out you don't need football to have brain issues.  So if all those players sue because they are playing in a game that they knew in advance could cause injury to any part of their body, the brain included, should all those other people sue someone for their brain damage misfortune?  The answer would be probably not.  And that is why I think this whole thing is a non-issue. 

https://twitter.com/losrealali...s/387770809407635456

The @nfl says they're not aware of any concussion documentary on @PBS called #LeagueOfDenial as they're not aware of a channel called PBS.

 

Not sure what your point is here, Pack-Man, can you clarify?
Is it because these drugs have a major effect on brain cells/tissue, or is there a correlation between drug use effect and concussion effect?

Do you know if steroid use has any effect on brain injury or deterioration over time? (I don't.) Ditto for alcohol or tabacco use? I know these have the obvious effects on different parts of the body and/or organs, but I would think alcohol has to have some detrimental effect on brain tissue/cells over time. 

PackMan

Did you watch the show?

I don't know much about the neurological effects of PEDs. The three drugs I mentioned all cause catastrophic brain damage in their users. Why do you think most of these guys wind up broke? Sure, they tend to be dumb jocks who make dumb purchases, but their spending patterns look like those of any other wealthy addict with poor impulse control. The press won't bring this factor up because it doesn't have the juicy angle that the conspiracy theories about a evil, all-powerful sports league screwing over and lying to their poor, innocent, disabled employees have. Much better to write sob stories about guys like Dave Pear, who want to blame someone else for all of their problems, while claiming they had no idea that all of their concussions might have negative effects one day. The public would be far less sympathetic with these guys if they knew how many of them have vaccuum cleaners for noses.

No, but I have read a lot about the issue. I'll probably watch this show when I have time if its available via On Demand.

Wow.  

I'm glad I have a daughter, that's about all that report left me saying.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/e...ary-league-of-denial

***********************************************

1. Aaron Nagler        ✔ @Aaron_Nagler

   One hour in, there has not been one piece of new information presented by #LeagueOfDenial. Good TV, informative, but no news.

Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde

@Aaron_Nagler True, but packaging it all together and having his narrative systematically put the pieces together is powerful stuff, no?

10:00 PM - 8 Oct 2013

Concur and you should have stopped right there, because the rest of your post is so full of untruths its not even worth a response

Nagler has his cranium so far up Goodell's ass that we can't take anything he writes seriously. He is so enamored with himself and his league buddies that he won't dare say one word against the NFL for fear of losing his precious access which drives his immense self-importance. What a maroon

Nagler = SHILL

Grown men make the decision to play football for millions of dollars. It is a life choice. They are in denial if they say they didn't know it was hazardous.  They have also played football before they came to the NFL.

First off I didn't watch the show, I have it DVR'd, but I follow this issue pretty closely.  In my opinion the end of football isn't going to start at the NFL, it's going to start at the youth levels and work up.  The NFL can afford to litigate anything, but middle schools and high schools, etc can not.  There have already been big lawsuits won by parents of kids who were injured playing football.  If/when this becomes more widespread with the research on brain trauma, schools will drop the programs because they will no longer be able to afford the insurance.  This will work it's way up from middle school to high school to college.  Eventually the pipeline of players will dry up.

I think boxing is a good example as well.  I could see, as more information becomes available, fewer parents will allow their kids to play...especially in more educated and affluent areas.   Just like in boxing, more and more of the players will come from poor areas of the country and third-world countries...latin america, etc.  As the standard of play goes down so will interest.

It won't happen soon or suddenly, but it will likely happen...barring big leaps in technology.

edit:  It's been a year and a half since I read this article, but a lot of the points obviously stuck with me:

http://www.grantland.com/story...ic-look-end-football

sorry I missed last night, replay on pbs tonight at 10pm and

again thursday at 7pm

Obama needs to ban football.

"League of Denial" shows just how scared the NFL was over this brain injury stuff, delaying and obfuscating as long as possible ala Big Tobacco

It also helps explain all of the changes in the current NFL -
If the league has to take the violence out ( and they do), then fans such as yourselves who grew up with a non-pussy NFL will lose interest

The Casuals and fantasy players won't care and that's who the league goes after in their marketing efforts.

It also helps explain the push to London and the rest of the world- those fans don't know about the non-pussy NFL of yesteryear so they won't be turned off by all the changes

The blue collar fans who built this league will continue to be marginalized as the NFL looks for new sources of revenue to promote the "new" NFL

No-defense basketball on grass can be sold to fans who don't remember the Ray Nitschke's, but its a tough sell to those of us who do remember a league built on toughness and violence

The game is changing and the league knows they are going to lose the old fans, so they develop new ones in new places.

The NFL is a game of replacement; not only players but fans too

Football as we knew it  is over, now they will desperately try to turn it into a non-violent form of entertainment to keep the $$ flowing -  and that process is well underway

There will be no football in the future , all signs point to it.  The only question is when, 10 yrs?  20?   NFL football already does not exist as we knew it 5 or 10 yrs ago.  As has been mentioned suburban moms will be the first to disallow participation, then high schools ....... 

I'm 65 so I will probably be OK but you young lads better find something else to do on fall weekend afternoons.

link to re-watch if anyone missed it

Yes and no.

In the PBS show they talk about how the League systematically lied and covered up the facts about brain injury- including the BS pamphlet they sent out to every player saying there was " no issue" and its fine to go back in the game after a concussion

Informed Consent is the key here for a player making the decision to take the millions and risk injury. They all knew they could be hobbled by a knee or an ankle. But none of them were told about the issues that affected their brains

And as Steve Young noted, its invisible until its too late

Will valid information change their decision ? Maybe. The NFL educates them on many things( Rookie Symposium)  and the young millionaires ignore that advice too going broke and being hustled by financial hucksters

Kramer & Pikes Peak are right and they even talk about it in the show when speaking with Dr. Omalu

" If even an additional 10% of the Mom's out there won't let their kids play football, its over"

They also say that no kids should play tackle football before age 14...and that would be the end of Pop Warner

If they need someone to tell them they might get a concussion, then they are naive.

I'm pretty sure they all realized they could get a concussion, what they we're not told was that repeated concussions and playing while still concussed could be damaging.   Not sure if it was in the show last nite but in the book a doc says that it is not always the big hits but the number of all hits during the whole football career. That being youth, college and pro.  Practice and games.

If the players would go back to actually tackling gotta wonder how many concussions there would be?

Butkus and Nitschke were two of the most feared defenders of their time, don't recall either ever leading with their helmet.

There is too much money to be made for the League to kill it's golden goose or for the players to change their ways. Once the revenue stream takes a hit adjustments will be made. Until then it will be business as usual, at least the usual of the past 5 years or so of moving to a safer game.

Watched it, I thought it was excellent, in how the show was produced and laid out.  As many have already pointed out, the league is changing, and one of the main reasons is because of the recent lawsuit and paying out $765M.  

It's pretty bad what the NFL did to the players back then, to the Doctor's who studied CTE and currently, still not making the "link" between football and CTE.  

You don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about.  It's not that they could get a concussion- it's about the long-term effects of them, the proper protocol for healing from them and the physiological changes to brain tissue that occur slowly, over time and without any ability to test for it until after they are dead. 

It seems like you didn't even watch the show nor have you read anything about this issue whatsoever.  No offense, but you seem to be the naive one here.

That said, from the NFL's standpoint, no one going forward can make the claim that they weren't aware of the risks of brain damage.  We are now in the age of informed consent.  Hopefully the studies on CTE will continue and we can learn to diagnose it and someday treat it, but that sure seems like a long way off.

Butkus and Nitschke were two of the most feared defenders of their time, don't recall either ever leading with their helmet.

Butkus did quite a bit, it's just that nobody dared tell him not to do it.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/226956301.html

Rodgers was asked if he was going watch the documentary “League of Denial” Tuesday night on PBS' “Frontline” show and about his view of the risk of brain injury from playing football.

“I will not be watching,” Rodgers said. “Tuesday night is a night of film. So I’ll be busy. But I know the risk that I take when I step on the field. I’m risking future health and future mental health. I understand that, future physical health. There are a lot of things that can happen to us on the field. But I love playing football. I know the risks I take when I step on the field. I think we all do as professional athletes. I’m more than happy to take those risks because I love to play, I love to entertain, I love to be around the guys. I love being part of something special.”

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/...1.html#ixzz2hFITMuQB
Follow us: @NewsHub on Twitter

No I didn't watch it and I don't plan to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you keep rattling your brain around that there is going to be long term effects. The brain is pretty vital.

Thanks Shoeless... did not see a lot of helmet leading shots but damn he liked to twist the ball carriers body, like he was trying to snap their head off.

.

Rodgers is very well- informed on head trauma; he took the time to learn about it when he got concussed and he spent time with Steve Young as well.

He then changed his helmet and his playing style( he runs less often and always slides)

 So we can clearly see the effects of having the correct information. Aaron was able to make changes and to make a decision about his future

unfortunately the thousands of players who played in the 1970's- 2000's didn't know what was going on and were handicapped by the systematic lies and cover-up perpetrated by the NFL and their hand-picked shill doctors. The NFL knew 20+ years ago what was going on and not only didn't do anything about it, they spent immense resources to cover it up .

That's what people are griping about. Today's players have the benefit of all that info, the players of yesteryear did not due to the repugnant actions of a greedy league.

"Tobacco and other big businesses have already shown that when health concerns threaten a business model, a head-in-the-sand approach is often the first line of defense."

I grew up in a household of Bear fans about 2 hours outside Chicago. I probably seen every game the guy ever played, which is both a curse and a blessing I guess. I hated him with a burning passion, but damn he was the best MLB I ever saw. Sorry Ray. 

But that's not the point. The point is the NFL is LYING to the players about head injuries. They maintain that football will not cause problems with the brain in later life, which is complete bogus. 

The question is not "Does football cause brain injury and later-life health issues?" it's "Why is the NFL lying to it's players and to the public about these facts?" 

__________

Not buying this for a second. There will never be a shortage of people willing to risk their health to get paid millions and millions of dollars (not to mention the glory and athletic "immorality" associated with success in pro football) for playing a game....doesn't matter what mommy wants, little Jimmy is gonna want to get paid. 

If the NFL were to admit that playing football can cause serious brain injury, and they made every player entering the NFL sign a contract acknowledging the risks associated with the sport, how many players would sign it? Damn near every one of them.

$$$$$$$$

 Seen.