Future is still very very bright

I think Hawk is very overrated and wouldn't mind a change. So he makes the calls for the worst defense in the league, not impressed.

Hawk stays for his steadiness. They find a way to get DJ on the field. Dline needs should be addressed. Shields was interesting -- I think in some ways he had a better year than did Tramon. At least, we heard Shields' name mentioned a whole lot less as giving up a catch than we did last year. We need another safety. As good a guy as Peprah is, he's just a guy.

Cobb gets better. Jennings stays same, Nelson stays same, DD gone, Gurley joins the unit, Jones... hmmm. We incorporate Saine more into the offense, and we may say goodbye to Grant. Oline needs help. Crosby is a rock.

Next year we're hungrier and play po'd.

Clifton done
Grant most likely gone
Starks...probably sticks one more season
Finley stays
Driver unfortunately is released
Peprah gone
Bush back
Brad Jones...?
Woodson moves to FS
Kuhn back
Saine starter
Crabtre??
Pickett back for one more season

GBP1, ,
Some of those I agree with, Pickett, Peprah, Bush, and others, it's tought to glance over Driver - released. He showed up today, and still can play....

Here the interesting thing- the Packers came into last year's draft needing to improve some defensive areas. Particularly, ROLB and RDE. The packers stayed true to their draft philosophy of BPA, which netted them 4 offensive players in 5 rounds. The rich got richer, but obviously the D sufered with the same personnel at ROLB and lesser personnel at RDE. It was a calculated gamble that worked out well until the offense sputtered.

But this year is a rich draft in OLBs- I suspect the Packers will get a couple of them. DT/DEs... we'll have to see.

Peprah yes needs an upgrade there but I don't think some of these players are gone vs they are on the team, just no longer starting. That would be Peprah.

Zombo, Jones or Walden I don't see as locks to make the team. TT needs a serious upgrade at ROLB. No question there.

Collins will know in March where his career is at per the GBPG (reported today). But safety is a position that is likely upgraded.

DE is another. If Mike Neal finally gets healthy then great. But relying on him is something TT can no longer afford to do. Need to get Raji/Pickett some serious relief.

Grant I'd be surprised if he's back. Green's knee will be a ? mark as well but you had to like him as a change of pace RB prior to getting hurt.

Clifton is likely gone as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Fandame:
Shields was interesting -- I think in some ways he had a better year than did Tramon. At least, we heard Shields' name mentioned a whole lot less as giving up a catch than we did last year.

Glad you mentioned this. Rarely heard Shields' name all year. I think his performance this year was vastly underrated. Everyone gets beat at some point, but for most of the year it was like opposing offenses never threw at Shields.

For the rest, I think Cobb really needs to play a bigger role of offense. He should replace DD and be the guy who goes over the middle. He's gonna be special in a couple years.

Shields has to tackle better. Only Deion could get away with not tackling.

quote:

Originally posted by heyward:
Shields has to tackle better. Only Deion could get away with not tackling.

Yep. He definitely was a guy who seemed to suffer a Super Bowl and lockout hangover. As a rookie, he wasn't a great tackler, but he wasn't bad. This year, he seemed to show absolutely no desire to hit or tackle. He needs to work hard this off-season and step it up because he does have legitimate talent if he's willing to hone his craft.

we will see how correct the recent reports about Capers being unhappy with his defensive players in the next couple of months.

I found this:
RobDemovskyRob Demovsky

The Giants have consistently covered Driver with a LB. That tells you what they think of him.

If true Drive is done.

What is troubling is how often "missed assignments" was given as reason for bad play every game. It's either bad coaching, or lack of smarts/motivation on the players. Given that they had a bye week where they spent a lot of time on corrections, I am leaning towards the fault being with the players.

You'll definitely need a scorecard to keep track of all the new players we have on defense next year.

I don't think there is any SB hangover. I think it's more a reflection of OC's having enough game tape on our young players to pick up on tendencies and weaknesses. Last year at this time our newer guys still had a bit of an element of suprise. OC's get paid to the same things our guys get paid to do.

I wouldn't bank too much on Woodson. You can't simply move him back to play a more traditional FS roll like Collins or Burnett played. His value to this D is as an X factor and the more play he devotes to FS, the less he can do that. Also don't forget he is pushing the envelope on age/injury risk.

You don't normally see a 15-1 team with as many weaknesses as this team had.

They sort of reminded me of the 2000 Rams (a 10-6 team that gave up 471 points). The 1999 Rams were a juggernaut that had the #1 offense and #5 defense (gave up only 242 points) and won the Super Bowl. The 2000 Rams also had a great offense, but the defense collapsed and they were knocked out in their 1st playoff game. In 1 off-season, they completely revamped their defense after the pitiful 2000 showing and got to the Super Bowl again in 2001.

Obviously, I would hope the 2012 Packers would do better than the 2001 Rams who were a bunch of punks and choked against the Patriots in the Super Bowl. But the point is, a defense can be revamped in 1 year, particularly when you have a core of guys like Clay Matthews, Des Bishop, Charles Woodson and others to build on. If one guy can do it, it's TT.

I'm worried Woodson may be done. This was our window. It's a wasted chance at greatness. Sucks!

Woodson is a quasi-safety now, playing the slot receiver and close to the line on nickel and dime defenses. He is rapidly slipping as a pure corner, can't even count how many times he has fallen down this year trying to cover.

I think they move him to safety, where he plays a Polomeau type role in the 3-4. That way, he isn't matched up on anybody (usually), and has his eyes in the backfield on the QB to break on plays.

quote:

Originally posted by turnip blood:
I found this:
RobDemovskyRob Demovsky

The Giants have consistently covered Driver with a LB. That tells you what they think of him.

If true Drive is done.

Maybe if we would of consistently tried to beat that matchup we'd been better off ... not sure I saw DD drop anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
I'm worried Woodson may be done. This was our window. It's a wasted chance at greatness. Sucks!

My earlier post alludes to that. But I think this team/D can survive without Woodson if it builds a better pass rush. Need probably 2 guys on the DL that can pressure and a ROLB. I don't think it's impossible.

By far, the most important thing we need to fix is to get that complementary pass rushing linebacker. All you really need your defensive line in a 3-4 to do is put a hard rush up the middle so the QB can't step up. Any sacks they get are gravy.

It is when you have two LB's rushing from both sides that the 3-4 defense that Capers, LaBeau etc run because dominant, as the zone blitzes and D-linemen dropping into short zones start to wreak havoc.

And, a good pass rush covers up a bad secondary far better than good corners can cover WR's.

Packers in position to contend for next few years, that helps with the sting of this loss. Maybe I'm still in denial but I'm ok with this season, Packers 15-1 with a bit of smoke and mirrors and today the jig was up.

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
I'm worried Woodson may be done. This was our window. It's a wasted chance at greatness. Sucks!

I think it would definitely be foolish to rely on him getting it done in 2012. I had some concerns before this season, but most of his poor plays only showed up because of the anemic pass-rush, he was playing the same way in 2010. This team needs to focus on building a credible pass-rush with the front seven and probably start grooming a new CB. If they can get a DE and another OLB that can create pressure, I think the problems we saw with QBs having all day to scan the field will diminish greatly. This team is just a good draft and offseason away from returning to 2010 form. I really hope that a lot of good pass-rusher prospects are in the draft this year.

The ONLY time I want ti see Bush on the field is on special teams. He is most responsible for the Hail Mary TD pass. He didn't drop back enough. They showed the play on ESPN, and the receiver was his responsibility. He couldn't cover a canvas with paint if he were given 10 brushes.

quote:

Originally posted by GBP1:
Clifton done
Grant most likely gone
Starks...probably sticks one more season
Finley stays
Driver unfortunately is released
Peprah gone
Bush back
Brad Jones...?
Woodson moves to FS
Kuhn back
Saine starter
Crabtre??
Pickett back for one more season

Saine starter? Did he show anybody enough this year to justify him being our starting running back in 2012??

Many teams would kill to have this level of talent on the team, but that doesn't mean they can't improve or upgrade in some areas.

They HAVE to find another pass rusher. Somebody like Von Miller or JJ Watt that can help out CMIII.

I also think they need to find a change of pace RB that can force defenses to honor that threat. Look at the difference a Darren Sproles can do to an already potent offense?

Then there's the DB position. I think we have a solid group with a lot of potential, but Peprah was easily the worst starter we had this year and they have to address that hole somehow. Maybe it's moving Woodson, don't know. But Peprah probably gave up 2/3 of the big pass plays himself and he's slow as hell.

Most important thing this offseason without a doubt:

FIX THE PASS RUSH

This will be a very interesting offseason for the Packers. There are going to be more changes than we have see in some time. Thompson will earn is salary if he can "win" this offseason.

In terms of players, I think injuries cloud the future as to who stays and who goes.

Sherrod - broken Tib/Fib. He's going to lose an entire offseason and most likely will not be ready to go at the start of next year. If Clifton is gone, we need another tackle on this roster.

Quarles- ACL. Players recover faster than ever before from a torn ACL, but his injury was late in the year and I doubt he's ready to go by the start of the season. I think not having Quarles, makes keeping Finley that much more important.

Collins -Neck. I have a hard time believing that he is going to be able to come back. I think Thompson has to find his replacement this off-season. Peprah is not the answer. Woodson has not responded positively when this was brought up, and even if he was moved, how many more years does he have. I think keeping him as an x-facter type CB makes more sense.

Neal - Big things were expected from him and injuries screwed that up. It remains to be seen if he can be the player the Packers expect even if he stays healthy.


Green - Not that big of a deal, but it would have been nice to know what he could do.


There will be other tough choices to make:

Driver - I think he is gone. As has been said already, Cobb needs to become more a part of this offense. Gurly is not going to stay on the practice squad. It will be tough to lose such a great Packer, but I think it's about time.

Clifton - as above. I wouldn't mind bringing him back if we don't have someone better.

Hawk - He'll stick around because we payed too much for him, but don't think he gives us much more than an average starter. It may be time to see what the guys behind him can do.

Finley - I know there is a whole thread about this, so I won't go into to too much. I think he gets franchised or, better yet, signed to a better deal prior to franchising him. His potential is too much to lose

Flynn - He gets no tag unless Finley is signed with no tag. Even then, he only gets the tag if Thompson has a trade deal already "agreed" upon. Packers can't' afford to pay him if they tag him and he signs the offer.

Bush - He's good on special teams, not so much in coverage. I think he has improved over that past several years, but will his price be too high?


D-line as a whole - This is the most troubling area in my opinion. Raji is good. He did not play as well this year and I have no explanation for that. Pickett is good, but he is getting old. Neal, as above. Green, Wynn, and Wilson are all just guys. Thompson is going to have his work cut out for him to make this an area of strength.


It's possible that the Packers also lose multiple coaches. Capers, Moss, Perry, Philbin, and Clements have all been mentioned as candidates for other jobs. I think Moss goes to the Raiders. I think Capers stays. I have no idea what happens with the others. Do the Packers have adequate replacements in house?

Thompson also lost McKenzie. Who replaces him? Probably John Dorsey but maybe Elliot Wolf.


As said, this offseason will brink a lot of change.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I had a lot of stuff rattling around in my head last night.

It has been a pleasure reading most of this forum's posts this season. Thanks to all for the great insights.

quote:

Originally posted by lambeausouth:
The ONLY time I want ti see Bush on the field is on special teams. He is most responsible for the Hail Mary TD pass. He didn't drop back enough. They showed the play on ESPN, and the receiver was his responsibility. He couldn't cover a canvas with paint if he were given 10 brushes.

There were multiple times in the game yesterday where Bush was in the game and Shields was on the sideline. I really don't understand what they were trying to do on defense.

Bush and Shields alternated with the idea Bush would improve the tackling abilities of the secondary.

I agree we'll see a lot of change this offseason. "Fixing the pass rush" is no easy task and it may well not be something they can fix in one offseason. I'd say 28-30 teams are looking for a better pass rush so talent is scarce. I wouldn't bank anything on Neal at this point. I haven't seen anyone suggest this but could it be Neal flashed last year because he had Jenkins next to him and Raji was playing better? No cure for that other than finding a Jenkins clone. Too bad Sizzurp fizzled his career out.

quote:

Originally posted by FreeSafety:
Bush and Shields alternated with the idea Bush would improve the tackling abilities of the secondary.

So if you can't cover the guy at least you will be able to tackle him?

The future is bright and yet the NFC in general is just going to be a tough place to be. The Pack is going to have to continue to come up with some draft gems to fix the problems that surfaced late this year. The Pack has a great QB, but he's not the only great QB in the NFC with Brees right there with him and frankly Manning pretty close as well. You've got young guys in Stafford and Newton that easily could become franchise QBs and they both sort of looked like they were there already.

As long as Aaron Rodgers is healthy, the Pack will have a fighting chance. But as they showed this year, he alone is not enough to win a Championship. A lot of other things will need to be fixed, and a little bit of luck will be needed to return to the glory they experienced in 2010.

Originally posted by Boris

quote:

I'm worried Woodson may be done. This was our window. It's a wasted chance at greatness. Sucks!

It was a wasted chance, but this is similar the SB32 year. We didn't make it that far, but similar ending.

The difference now is that we have a better Head Coach and a better QB. Bert was about to go out of control, whereas I don't see MM or AR going that way.

We've got great young receivers and some young solid anchors on defense. We will contend again next year.

Of course the future is bright. We won the Super Bowl last year with multiple, significant injuries, and came back to post a very impressive 15-1 record. We obviously choked yesterday, but that doesn't negate the fact that the foundation has been laid for us to contend for an extended period of time. That foundation includes Rodgers, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Bulaga, Sitton, Raji, CMII, Bishop, Burnett, etc. We also have the best talent evaluator around in TT, and a great HC in McCarthy. Barring an injury to the franchise (read: Rodgers), we'll be looking to make a run again next year.

Yesterday was a major disappointment, as you would like to see the Packers take advantage of these type of opportunities. With this team's talent, we should have been able to use home field advantage to advance to the Super Bowl. It didn't happen, and that absolutely blows. That said, we need to keep things in perspective. When you have a franchise QB like we have in Rodgers, you have a shot every year. This team isn't going anywhere, in terms of being an annual contender.

I'm still very confident that, by the time Rodgers retires, he will have added at least one more Lombardi (if not more) to the trophy case.

Packer slogan for 2012 - The fat and slow have got to go!!!