Gazoo says blame new CBA for injuries in TC

I kind of do. Would be nice if somebody did the leg work to figure out the % of training camp injuries pre-current CBA agreement and post-agreement. Sure seems like we are seeing more torn ACL's lately

I think Bart Scott came out and basically said the same thing

I thought it could be from one of two things:

1) The new sport turf doesn't give like the old regular grass would. Yes, grass fields were not as fast and could be messy in bad weather conditions, but it would give way so the athlete's joints wouldn't be subject to unnatural twisting or bending.

2) The athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger, probably due to steroids or HGH. They have become unnaturally freakish. The joints and tendons have not kept pace with the size of the players and are not equipped to handle the increased strain and abuse.

I know Clayton is just a rumors guy, but it's highly speculative to make a statement like that without some stats to back it up.   I couldn't find any in a cursory look but this article from the Washington Post had some interesting information about medical treatment in the NFL.    

 

NFL medical standards, practices are different than almost anywhere else

 

washingtonpost.com

by Sally Jenkins and Rich Maese 3/16/13

 

 

Toradol Use:

...An ordinary citizen would receive a shot of the powerful painkiller Toradol for acute pain only after undergoing surgery, and typically for no more than five days.

 

But in the NFL, doctors administer it weekly despite dangerous side effects that include renal failure, and its ability to mask pain to such a degree that a player injured during a game may not even be aware of the extent of his injury.

 

In a 2002 academic paper, 28 NFL physicians reported administering Toradol every game day, injecting up to 35 players per club. 

 

...

Concussion Response:

The union’s consulting physician, Thom Mayer, counted at least seven occasions last season in which players took heavy blows to the head yet were returned to play almost immediately.

 

“When we know, for example, the sideline concussion exam takes seven minutes to administer, and a player who looks like he had a concussion goes to the sideline and he’s back in less than a minute, we simply know the protocols weren’t employed,” said DeMaurice Smith, the NFLPA’s executive director.

 

...

 

All concussions will be subject to second opinions next season [2013] . In response to union concerns, the league has agreed to station unaffiliated neurologists on the sidelines to ensure protocols are followed. But there is some apprehension among teams even about this.

 

Players have “highly individualized” reactions to pain and injury, said Pittsburgh Steelers trainer John Norwig, and team medical staff know — and are therefore best equipped to make evaluations.

 

“I don’t have a problem with someone being part of our team,” he said, “But we don’t want someone looking over our shoulders. We want someone to be part of our group.”

 

...

 

The doctor-patient dynamic

The biggest difference between the NFL’s medicine and yours might lie in the triangulated relationship between patient, physician and club management, combined with the urgency of decisions made on the sideline.

 

Some health care organizations pay seven figures for the right to call themselves official medical care providers for NFL teams, a status that can increase business exponentially, and over which doctors have been known to be bitterly competitive.

 

Asked to identify a classic case in which an NFL doctor might feel conflicted, Geier and Bishop named meniscus surgery. The meniscus is the shock absorbing cartilage in the knee.

 

When a player tears a meniscus it can often be fixed in two ways: part of it can be trimmed out, or it can be sewn back together. The sewn method is preferable for preventing degenerative changes 10 or 15 years down the road — but the recovery period is three to six months. A trim takes just three to six weeks.

 

Both surgeon and player are faced with the question: Cut away the damaged cartilage and get the player back on the field in the short term — or sew it and cost him his season?

...

 

A 2008 Congressional report on NFL players and disability quoted an internal memo from an NFL Players Association staff counsel who handles injury grievances, reminding players to obtain their medical records — and read them closely.

 

“Players who review their club’s medical records for the first time while preparing their arbitrations are often surprised to read what has been written about their injuries by the club doctors and trainers,” the NFLPA counsel advised. “The level of detail in the records far exceeds what is told to them by the club.”

continue

 

Worth the click.

Gonna' go out on a limb and say PED's strengthen muscle but a tendon is what it is and at some point anatomy is going to have the final say.

And even if that's not taking place. Tendons and ligaments can't be ok with guys the size of NFL players going the speeds they go at and expect to hold up. It's not happening.

I don't think its got anything to do with camp length or the offseason. JMO.

Obligatory.

Injuries have always been a part of the game.  One key difference is that the media coverage is 24/7 all the time.  I got a kick out of Hard Knocks this weeks when AJ Green took a spill in training camp and those at the practice were tweeting out information before a press conference was held.   Marvin Lewis said as much.

I also wonder about the potential impact of PEDs on some of these guys.  The human body can be supercharged through HGH and steroids but bones/joints/muscles/tendons don't always hold up to the extra strain and pressure of these athletes.  They might be able to recover faster but it's not like an ACL gets tougher or stronger because someone's juicing. 

BINGO! Any time you mess with evolution there are going to be side effects. Increased injuries is one of them. Back in the 60's players were working full time jobs in the offseason & not training year-round, Lombardi would kill them at camp, & I don't remember anyone ever tearing their achilles or ACL? 

Smith is full of crap. Most times players don't want to be tested during the game. Some other player may play better than them and they don't want to be benched or worse yet cut.  If RGIII had wanted out of the game during last years playoffs he would have been out.  I doubt Shananhan forced him to stay out there.  Most players are too proud or too stupid to protect themselves.

According to titm... chart on injuries by position, the only position on a down trend is special teams.  That makes sense since they probably aren't allowed to practice it anymore. 

and a pile of those guys don't have to be burdened by walking around anymore or remembering their children's names. 

There's a shear pin effect in play here.

 For the last generation strength has been developed by muscle specific training. Everything (exercises, machines, techniques) is designed to safely enhance strength without straining or injuring other parts of the body. Strength coaches are watching to make sure they're not doing it wrong. But in game time and real life, the increased stresses of additional weight/strength are transferred to the ligaments, joints and tendons in an uncontrolled fashion; unequally and with torsion.  It's not that tendons and ligaments aren't being strengthened (they generally can't be); It's that the weak points in the system are being protected during preparation. The pain and mild injuries that  normally mark the limit for training are avoided until catastrophic failure occurs.

I wouldn't put anything past Shanahan. That weasel sent a blind player onto the field in a Super Bowl.

Back in the 60's players were working full time jobs in the offseason & not training year-round, Lombardi would kill them at camp

Vince even got Sonny in shape.

I think we're going to see an increase in lower body injuries this season, but not because of the CBA...because of Roger Goodell. All of these rules about touching helmets or lowering helmets or hitting high is going to result in defensive players constantly going low on skill position players. Can't launch at a receivers head? Launch at his knees. Ball carrier can't lower his head...so he has to expose his knees more. 

quote:

It's that the weak points in the system are being protected during preparation. The pain and mild injuries that  normally mark the limit for training are avoided until catastrophic failure occurs.

Interesting points! 

ACL injuries showing another summer spike

Jim Corbett, USA TODAY Sports 9:02 p.m. EDT August 11, 2013

 

 

The first two-plus weeks of training camp have resulted in at least 15 season-ending knee injuries. Welcome to the summer of the torn anterior cruciate ligament. Even Atlanta Falcons President Rich McKay, the chairman of the NFL's Competition Committee, told USA TODAY Sports, he thinks "there have been more ACL injuries than ever."

 

According to Edgeworth Economics, which recently conducted an independent analysis of the data provided by the NFL Players Association, ACL injuries are on the rise, although the research doesn't differentiate between a sprain and a tear. For instance, in the 2004 preseason, there were 13 ACL injuries. That number jumped to 24 in last year's preseason, and it appears the 2013 preseason could surpass that.

 

Orthopedist Neal ElAttrache told USA TODAY Sports the ACL epidemic happens this time of year regardless of the number of padded practices. It's more about mathematics — and eager, determined players trying to impress coaches.

 

"The majority of ACL tears are non-contact tears. So being in pads, during hitting or without, does not affect the instance of ACL tears much. ACL injuries in August are not mitigated by non-contact drills or new CBA rules."

 

Still, team executives have their theories.

 

"I believe teams are trying too hard not to get players hurt by going half and three-quarters speed in practice, and football is a full-speed game," one league executive told USA TODAY Sports. The executive spoke on the condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak publicly. "It's very hard to simulate what happens on Sunday by being cautious and going half speed." continue