Green Bay's Pass Attack/Defense

A lot to consider. Too many questions.

Yeah, I always wondered why our receivers had a hard time getting open as well. Don't think it's going to get any better without Jennings. I think he was one of the better route runners. Jordy can get space if he can get vertical

Actually I thought Cobb got the most open. But the YAC had to be way down and the throws were so contested. Our guys often had to be great to complete. Both AR and the wides.
Actually I don't think there are "Two many questions" as I was trying to start a discussion of Packer off-season issues faced by the staff/as well as our experts.

We need to keep upgrading our OL which will make our running game better and give AR more time in the pocket. I am on the bandwagon that we need to upgrade our running game. Give us a running game that other teams just have to respect and we are back at the top.

There is something to be said about how, when watching other games, the number of receivers catching passes with 3-5 yards of separation from the defenders compares to what we see when watching the Packer offense.

For all MM's "genius" and his multiple sets and formations, I have found it odd how easily defenders seem to be able to cover Packer receivers. Especially Finley. Tony Gonzalez and Vernon Davis had more wide open catches yesterday than Finley had all season.

This also affects how long AR holds the ball before throwing it. Notice how Brady and other QBs drop back 3 or 5 or 7 steps and throw the ball? I'd bet AR went entire games this season without throwing a pass at the end of his dropback. I'd have to think if the primary receiver was open on time, AR would be throwing the ball on time.

go back and watch the super bowl against the steelers. jennings, nelson and jones were wide open all day. not sure what happened this season.

Neither Jennings or Nelson were really healthy at all this season. Groin injury for Jennings, and a hammy injury for Jordy. Hard to gain separation when you're not able to run/cut at full speed.

Look at the two Super Bowl teams this year and what draft picks they have playing for them on the OL and defensive front 7. Receivers look more open when the QB isn't running for their life and defenses look better when teams can't run at will against their base personnel.

San Francisco
OT- Staley (1st round, 28th pick)
G- Iupati (1-17)
OT - Davis (1-11)
LB- Willis (1-11)
LB - Aldon Smith (1-7)
DE - Justin Smith (Signed as a free agent but drafted 1-4)

Baltimore
OT Oher 1-23
NT Ngata 1-12
DL Cody 2-57
LB Suggs 1-10
LB Lewis 1-26
LB Upshaw 2-35

The Packers had two first round OT on the IR at the end of the year (Bulaga and Sherrod). On defense, they have invested high draft picks in Matthews, Raji, Worthy (who was on IR), Perry (IR), and Hawk. When 3 of your 4 LBs in a playoff game are a 1st round pick who has not lived up to expectations (Hawk), a 7th round pick (Jones), and a street free agent (Walden), you are likely to be physically overmatched. When your starting OT are a 5th round pick (Newhouse) and a free agent (Barclay) and your center is another street free agent (EDS), you aren't going to have a dominating line.

The bottom line is that Packers will be OK if Bulaga and Sherrod end up being first round talents and the guys on defense in the front 7 that were premium picks produce (Neal, Worthy, Perry).

From just the Pats and 9ers alone, I've seen a ton of crossing/drag routes. Take advantage of straight line speed for shorter, safer passes. And with the rules in place, don't have to worry about guys getting rocked.

My completely uninformed take would be that MM runs a far more vertical scheme, for better or worse.

Not sure how great my memory is but I use to think Holmgrem had way to many short curl routes. Now MM seems to go deep on third and 3-4 to go a lot. Not sure what is right but Crabtree and Davis were running away from defenders while our guys have defenders right on them.

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Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
Actually I thought Cobb got the most open. But the YAC had to be way down and the throws were so contested. Our guys often had to be great to complete.

quote:

The Packers' receivers did find a way to adjust and strike whenever a defense did drop a safety into the box. Yards after the catch remains the group's strength. The Packers finished fourth in YAC, according to STATS. The 2,177 yards weren't too far off last year's total of 2,410. Individually, Cobb's 480 yards after catch ranked seventh.

And there's the mid-season stretch of nine wins in 10 games. Jennings value to the offense, or so it seemed, was minimized.

The thing that hit home to me watching the games yesterday was how much more time & cleaner pockets the QB's had to work with than AR does.

That is very true. Often AR is is rush hour traffic in his pocket. We were missing 2 first round draft pick tackles and using a washed up center most of the year. I'm torn between drafting Center first or Safety. For that matter is there a future star running back?

I think AR spoils us here. Our WR's do a pretty good job of getting open and running after the catch. Sometimes I think we run too many deep passes, but we're pretty good at that, so not a huge issue.

My concern is Finley, b/c he seems well covered way too often. Davis, Hernandez and Pitta seemed to be wide open repeatedly, but Finley rarely is. I have to assume it's scheme, b/c no way Pitta is a better athlete than Finley.

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Davis, Hernandez and Pitta seemed to be wide open repeatedly, but Finley rarely is.

I don't know, but is it (more athletic DB's) covering Finley versus the others getting LBrs?

Teams gameplan to stop the pass vs. GB. Teams gameplan to stop the run vs. San Fran. When the defense is looking run first, it opens up some things in the passing game. GB gets mostly Nickel and Dime looks where you have anywhere from 5 to 8 guys dropped into coverage. It makes a huge difference. Teams know they can stop our running game with 4 guys, you can't say that for San Fran. You almost have to commit 7 in the box to contain their run game, often leaving you DBs on an island. That's difficult to defend when you aren't getting any pressure. If the Packers run game could command any respect at all then you would see waaaay more opportunities open up in the passing game.

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Teams know they can stop our running game with 4 guys

and even if they can't they just have to wait for MM to give up on it.

quote:

Originally posted by MichiganPacker:
Look at the two Super Bowl teams this year and what draft picks they have playing for them on the OL and defensive front 7. Receivers look more open when the QB isn't running for their life and defenses look better when teams can't run at will against their base personnel.

It definitely sucked that several of the Packers' first-round picks either were out or sucked (Hawk), or are completely out of football (Harrell). But I wonder if "hitting" on your first- and second-round picks is any more important than striking gold in later rounds so long as you build a winning team? It may be easier to hit in the earlier rounds, or is it?

Once a player starts every game in a season in the NFL, I don;t care what round he was picked or whatever.


Newhouse was the only Packers OL to play every offensive snap this season.

I'm always curious that a 5th round pick playing LT gets grief for being below average, yet a 1st round pick is unable to play LT so the team moves him to RT where he's decent. I'm not suggesting the move to RT shouldn't have been made, but where's the grief for Bulaga for not being able to play a position he was probably initially drafted for???

He took over at RT after Tauscher got hurt in 2010. Clifton was playing well at LT that year, after a rocky start. Bulaga never failed at LT.

quote:

Originally posted by PackLandVA:
I'm always curious that a 5th round pick playing LT gets grief for being below average, yet a 1st round pick is unable to play LT so the team moves him to RT where he's decent. I'm not suggesting the move to RT shouldn't have been made, but where's the grief for Bulaga for not being able to play a position he was probably initially drafted for???

Clifton was the starting LT when Bulaga was drafted, I don't understand your hand wringing over Bulaga, in my opinion he's been an above average RT, and was never given the opportunity to play LT.

He looked darned promising in limited exposure at LT when I saw him. I thought he looked right at home there. Smart player, athletic, quick reactions... I liked him.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:
While everyone raves over AR and his receivers I wonder about the pass plays we run. The past two weeks I saw Crabtree and Vernon Davis running free making easy catches away from defenders. Time and again Gore sweeps right and cuts between the tackle and end through a big alley running free. Did it against the Pack and both TD runs against the Falcons. What I don't see from Green Bay is the wide open receivers and don't see open passing lanes. Is it our routes or could it be lack of running game threat? Could GB benefit more from a big time back or better linemen? Or are our schemes just not as good as say SF?
Also, particularly worrisome has to be Roman's (SF O Cordinator) comments that from working with Capers previously he knew in different circumstances exactly how Dom would try and defend? Is he predictable? It is more than just being "Hot" at the right time. Heck the Ravens lost 4 of the last 5 to end the season.
Do the Packers need changes or were injuries a big part of the problem?

Mmmmm. Maybe?

quote:

Originally posted by PackLandVA:
I'm not suggesting the move to RT shouldn't have been made, but where's the grief for Bulaga for not being able to play a position he was probably initially drafted for???

I think after Sherrod arrived the idea was Sherrod was eventually going to be the LT once he was ready and to let Bulaga develop into an all pro over there at RT. His body type, especially arm length and hands is better suited for RT.

I'd guess it's not so much that he wasn't able but that due to the guys on the roster at the time the best five left Bulaga at RT and Newhouse at LT. Typically teams like a stronger running game on the right side. Bulaga gives you that especially when compared to Newhouse.

Newhouse showed a lot of promise with his athleticism. They felt they could develop him to be a tactical LT that deals with elite pass rushers. He's had his moments and when he's at his best he can handle everything. He does take some serious dips in his consistency. To his credit he did seem to level out more towards the good side of his tendencies at the end of the season.

Newhouse had a much improved year in pass pro. The deficiency in his game, i think, is his run blocking.

I think we as fans tend to lose sight at times of the team's philosophy to "draft and develop." Newhouse was pretty decent this year but he's not a finished product yet. Another off season should serve him well. Going forward, having tackles such as Newhouse, Bulaga, Sherrod and Barclay is a pretty good thing to have. Datko has a chance too.

IMO, all this line needs is a strong off season and a C to sew everything together.

quote:

Originally posted by Pakrz:


IMO, all this line needs is a strong off season and a C to sew everything together.

.....and getting a little more creative in our run scheme....I love watching SF week-to-week to see what they do with their run game. Some weeks they use alot of traps, pulling, wham blocks, etc. Others (vs. us two weeks ago) it's alot of option. They appear to be very diversified in their game planning, as opposed to our Zone Blocking scheme.

Chart how close to the equator Packker players currently are.

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and getting a little more creative in our run scheme....I love watching SF week-to-week to see what they do with their run game. Some weeks they use alot of traps, pulling, wham blocks, etc. Others (vs. us two weeks ago) it's alot of option. They appear to be very diversified in their game planning, as opposed to our Zone Blocking scheme.

This.

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eply

The Packers offensive line will struggle until Nidas can deliver ciggarettes to Oshkosh.

Newhouse isn't the LT of the future. He was a turnstile this year.

And Bulaga's not the problem, IMO. He's one of the bright spots on the OL.

Still the difficult decision. Draft a center 1st, running back or D

I'll give Newhouse credit for his pass pro this year. With how much this team drops back and the amount of 1-on-1's he was given, he could have been much worse. This guy isn't Allen Barbre or JaMarcus Webb, people. That said, I'd feel better if he was the top backup at both spots.

I think it was McGinn's stats recaps that showed Newhouse was still responsible for the most pressure.

Newhouse is a solid backup. But he led the team in sacks allowed.

Most LTs do.

quote:

Originally posted by Sep:
Newhouse isn't the LT of the future. He was a turnstile this year.

And Bulaga's not the problem, IMO. He's one of the bright spots on the OL.

Glad there's at least one player you don't think sucks on this team.