Hammond Speaks

They have to get some more guys that can shoot consistently other than Middleton and Mayo. 

Middleton has turned out to be a very good player for them.  I'm not sure what his ceiling is, but that was a good move to keep him and pay him.  

Monroe has made a number of strides this year as the season progresses.  I still wonder how he fits within the roster at times, but he's been pretty solid. 

Giannis and Parker have been disappointments IMO and it's frustrating because you see flashes of the type of players they can be.  Regardless, they need to get better and more consistent. 

Henson, MCW, and Vasquez have been nothing short of complete busts this year.  I know Vasquez has been hurt but that was not a good move.  Carter Williams - I can't figure the guy out at all.  We know he can't shoot but his other skills are very good but he's erratic as hell and I wonder about his work ethic. 

This team needs a veteran PG to lead them and set the tone and if that can be found via trade so be it. Not sure I am willing to give up on MCW but I am getting there 

I agree that they need a true PG- but in my opinion that would only make MCW better. I am pretty sold on the fact that he isn't a PG, but as a hybrid he would have tremendous value as a 6th man. You take that pressure off him and suddenly he'll blossom. A veteran PG would be the right addition at the trade deadline, IMO. One that can defend on the ball. 

Parker and Giannis are what they are. 21 year olds trying to learn the pro game. They're both unselfish, so their numbers will not jump out at you at this point because they won't do what guys like Wiggins did- score by default. I am ok with where they are developmentally. 

Henson is the mistake. Sure, he has value. But are you getting a return for your investment? Foul machine, turnover machine, too thin to stand up in the post (contributing to the foul machine). Why did they extend him??? They could have let the RFA play out and not paid nearly as much. Now you have a really expensive bench big. Great...

Mayo is finished. I don't want him on the floor taking minutes from the other guys. If he's hitting, sure. They need it. But he's not. So don't play him. Then let him walk when the season ends. Give those minutes to Vaughn. 

Deadline deals should include Bayless (who I like, but they'll have to give something to get something), and Mayo's expiring deal. Give up a draft pick- this coming draft is horrible. Give up 2. Don't need to get younger, even if it is in the lottery. Of bourse, Toronto gets the pick if the climb into the playoffs, but a deadline deal for a PG should help them climb to 6th minimum anyway. 

Apparently Jeff Teague is available.  He's not playing as well as last season but he'd be an immediate upgrade.  Problem is Milwaukee would likely have to give up a guy like MCW to get him - and if you could package Vasquez as well I'd make that move. 

I don't think anyone will want MCW in a pg swap. They need interior help- JOB is a nice cheap option. Enough? Prob not...

They need to move Monroe at the deadline.  He is the biggest chip that they will be willing to trade, even if they aren't acknowledging it.  He would bring back a very nice draft pick or young talent that we'd have for several years.  By the trade deadline, we would have Monroe for only 1.4 more seasons as he can opt out after next year.  You must maximize your assets, especially when you are not a playoff team, nor will make significant noise in the conference this or next year (most likely).

The Bucks problem isn't Monroe (though last night he made his share of head scratching on defense).

It's their G play. They give up 3 point shooting at an alarming clip. Their on ball defense is atrocious. They're completely lost on help defense, always making sure to leave an open shooter or lane. 

The Bucks attack and score in the paint better than anyone. But that's also out of necessity- no one can shoot. Middleton's 2 week hot streak came to an end, and now they have no one who can make a friggin jump shot.

Against the Grizzlies they clanged themselves right out of the game. Last night they fought hard enough to keep it close, but couldn't make a money shot to take the lead. 

Trading Monroe is not an option anyway. What message does it send? We make a big splash and trade him by the deadline? Not a great message to send the players in the NBA who aren't exactly clamoring to play here anyway...

I agree I would keep Monroe.  He and Middleton are the only two players (possibly Bayless) that are playing up to expectations. 

The Racine Journal Times had a piece today basically suggesting that Milwaukee show blow the team up.  Can't say I disagree at this point.  They are one of the biggest disappointments in the league and it's not going to get better unless they change the roster. 

They don't defend. It's pathetic to watch. I know you have young guys, and defense is the hardest thing to understand in the pro game, but every night it's the same f$&King bullsh!t. Dribble drive, penetrate and kick, rain down the 3s. 

http://m.journaltimes.com/spor...ml?mobile_touch=true

I wish they could trade for a real PG. I'm talking a mega deal for an established star. I think MCW is just not a point guard. He can't shoot, and turns the ball over too much. But as a swing G off the bench? I think he'd be great in that role. 

Put Damien Lillard, or Chris Paul, or James Harden, thing would come together quickly. I know that's silly- these are all superstars. But all of them could be available on teams that are simply not going to go very far where they are. 

Looking over the list of free agent pgs, Conley and Jennings generate the most interesting vibe. Grizz mgmt has already said they are keeping him. That leaves Jennings... wouldn't that be ironic...

Maybe a deal with ATL- Monroe and MCW for Horford and Teague and a pick? 

As Music City points out, the NBA comes down to whether you can get one of the 6-7 superstars when you get the chance. The Bucks have gotten the #1 and #2 picks in years when there wasn't franchise-altering superstar talent available. Andrew Bogut was a serviceable guy. Jabari Parker doesn't seem like a superstar, although the jury is still out. They got fortunate with the Giannis pick as he's their best player, but he's more of the second banana type. 

Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Kawhi Leonard, Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, Kobe, Shaq, Durant, Harden, Steph Curry. Add one of those types of guys in their prime and this current Bucks roster is a 55/60 team. There's a few other guys that would get this team to 45 wins or so. Other than Ray Allen, the Bucks haven't had anywhere near that type of player in the last 30 years - probably not since Moncrief. 

The caveat for all these guys is their youth. MCW is the one of the oldest at 24. Parker/Antetokoumpo are 21. Even Monroe is just 25, Middleton 24. 

Do you blow up a team this young? The GS reportedly were willing to deal either Ellis or Curry for Bogut. What if, eh? What would have been the story then? 

Young players like the Bucks have take time. Curry was in the league 3 years and was an injury concern who never averaged 20 a game. That was when the Bucks made the trade for Ellis, and the rest is history. He was MVP in year 6. 

Giannis is in year 3. Parker year 1 (really). Middleton is blossoming in year 4. MCW is in year 3. How do you give up on guys this young? 

The Bucks are in the exact position the Warriors were in. Trade the wrong guy, and you may destroy your future. Go get the right guy, and you could be the Warriors. 

I remember that when the Bogut trade happened the concern was that Curry had bad ankles and it wasn't clear if he was going to last physically in the NBA.

The Bucks probably have as good of depth in terms of solid NBA players as anyone. Giannis, MCW, Parker, Monroe, Middleton, Henson, Mayo, and Bayless would probably all get at least some minutes playing for anyone.

Put it this way, if you were the Cavaliers would you trade your entire roster (minus Lebron James) for the Bucks roster? I bet they'd do that in a minute. Kevin Love can shoot and rebound, but he never could get Minnesota to the playoffs and he'd have trouble guarding many of us. Kyrie Irving is also good, but is he significantly better than Middleton? Probably a little bit, but I think you could replace him with Middleton and the Cavs wouldn't look much different.

If you were the Thunder you'd probably trade their whole roster (minus Durant and Westbrook) for the Bucks roster. The Pelicans would look a lot better if they flipped the roster (minus Anthony Davis) for the Bucks roster.

NBA titles are won by teams that manage to pair a superstar (Top 25 all time player) with 1-2 other borderline HOFs/All-stars and some complementary players. NBA dynasties happen when you get 2 superstars on the same team and they can manage the egos. Jordan/Pippen; Shaq/Kobe; Duncan/Robinson/Parker; Magic/Kareem; Bird/McHale.

The Bucks have the borderline all-stars just lack the superstar player, they have all the other pieces (except for maybe another shooter). It's just really hard to get that superstar player. The Bucks have had one transcendent player in their history (Kareem) and won their only title when they had him. When they've had HOF-level players (or close) they've advanced deep in the playoffs (Moncrief/Lanier/Marques; Ray Allen).

Whatever happens they have to keep Giannis. He's the one guy that I think could become a superstar, franchise-carrying player. He reminds me of Tracy McGrady, except that McGrady obviously was a better shooter, but Giannis has that same type of fluidity and smoothness as a athlete.

MCW is a nice player, but he'll never shoot well enough to be a superstar. Parker just doesn't seem to me to be a future superstar.

Durant 2nd overall. Westbrook 4th overall. In the same draft as Westbrook, Rose went 1st, Beasley 2nd, Mayo 3rd, then Westbrook and Love. In that draft, the Bucks took Alexander while both Lopez's, Bayless, Batum, Deandre Jordan, Koufos, Ibaka, George Hill, and a host of solid role players came after. That draft was loaded and Hammond took the only guy to not play a single meaningful minute in the NBA. 

I watched the OKC/GS game last night. The thing that separates these teams from the Bucks? Made shots. Seems simple, right? You watch these 2 elite teams and they have guys who knock down difficult shots. Over and over... They never miss open looks, and they also hit guarded looks. 

Then watch the Bucks... They get good looks, but it's 50/50 if they make them. The Bucks go through long stretches of missed shots. They were winning games a couple weeks ago when they could give the ball to Middleton and get a bucket. He cools off, they lose 4 straight. 

Middleton is a good player and that was a good move to keep him.  He can score and defend and I think he'll get better. 

The problem is Parker and Giannis are still to one dimensional on offense (difficulty shooting) and we all know MCW can't hit jumpers.  

Monroe is a good scorer but he's like Big Dog- he gives up as many points as he scores and simply isn't a good defender. 

I heard a fascinating trade rumor today -

Blake Griffin in exchange for Jabari Parker and Greg Monroe 

Not sure I am keen on giving away Parker so soon,  but Monroe is an above average player that doesn't play D and Griffin gives them a superstar they are lacking to team with Middleton and Giannis and MCW.  They are still soft in the middle, but Hammond needs to address that in the offseason anyway. 

After this year they clear close to 20MM with Vasquez and Mayo and Bayless expiring contracts and Griffin is signed for another year and has a 21MM player option for 2017. 

I don't know if Griffin is a superstar. He's a good player- but the Bucks problem is the backcourt. The only way this makes sense is if they included Chris Paul...

Poorly run franchise.  Money to Henson was the surest sign that things were not going to get better.  

Some perspective on the Henson extension- the nba cap is about to explode.  Stars like LeBron have been holding out for this- waiting for the mega deal that will be available when the new cap comes out. Look at the rash of $100mil + deals last summer. Without the new cap, all of this deals would have been debilitating. 

It's possible that the Henson deal was preemptive.  In a couple years, it might be a bargain...

I don't watch enough of the games to get much of a feel, but what do those of you that see a lot of games think about Parker?

As Tschmack says, you'd hate to give up on Parker too soon, but my limited read of him (including last year before the injury) is that he's kind of a Marvin Williams-type. That is, a decent NBA 6th or 7th guy but not a difference maker.

Constrast that to Giannis, who just seems like he could be a poor man's Scottie Pippen - a potentially great on-ball defensive player, good rebounder, and ballhandler.

I have no idea with what the coaches see in Henson and how he's being used.  There's no question he has a lot of talent, but he's not getting the minutes.  You see what he can do when he plays at a high level.  Something tells me either he's not putting in the effort or he's not healthy. 

As for his contract, it is what it is.  There's a poison pill component that makes it nearly impossible to trade him so they need to find a way to get him on the court. 

MC is right as well about the value of contracts exploding in the near future.  If Middleton continues to play well his contract will be a decent value.  To some extent, Giannis not playing at a high level helps Milwaukee as he is due for a big raise coming up as well. 

MichiganPacker posted:

I don't watch enough of the games to get much of a feel, but what do those of you that see a lot of games think about Parker?

 

Saw something in the new lineup last night... Parker was attacking early and often. Calling for him to get the ball high post and wing, working towards the rim with Mayo/Middleton a kick option on the play side. 

To answer your question, yes he can be a star. I thought I posted this earlier- Kobe scored 7.8, 15.4, and 19.9 ppg his first 3 years. Only one year difference, and Kobe didn't have the ACL. 

Giannis was shooting the ball last night. Not all were misses. I think Kidd is trying to get Monroe and MCW away from Giannis/Parker so they'll stop deferring. Let's see how long it lasts and how well it works...