Is this the worst ever playoff showing by a 1 seed?
I think the Bucks had 2 timeouts at the end of OT.
They had one at the end of regulation.
Does Bud make money if takes timeouts to the locker room?
Giannis in the 4th + OT
3-12 from the field
3-9 from the Free throw line
3 turnovers
Post-game show guys are literally laughing at Bud.
Taking out Lopez for Connaughton on the final play of regulation
So, what’s the next Wisconsin team to win a chip…,it will happen 10-12 years from now, because this Bucks team isn’t winning another. They’re not mentally strong, they’re physically soft, and they have an idiot for a coach.
I can already hear Sir Charles.
”That was turrible.”
Bud is gonna call a timeout any minute now
One of the bigger choke jobs in NBA history for sure.
I'd rather they lose in round one then losing the conference finals to the Celtics. That's some pretty awful basketball by the Bucks.
That series was such a disaster, I can only imagine there’s going to be some fairly significant changes made. Sure, they could try to run this team back, but they are already an old team lacking quickness as a group.
The Championship window is closed and it might take a miracle to build a team that can get back to the 2018-2021 level of greatness again before Giannis’ time as a Buck is over.
Under no circumstances can you allow that lob play at the end of regulation.
HE HAD LOPEZ ON THE FLOOR AND TOOK HIM OUT AFTER THEY SAW THE PLAY. WITH BUTLER ON THE BASELINE. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUKK?
@fightphoe93 posted:That series was such a disaster, I can only imagine there’s going to be some fairly significant changes made. Sure, they could try to run this team back, but they are already an old team lacking quickness as a group.
The Championship window is closed and it might take a miracle to build a team that can get back to the 2018-2021 level of greatness again before Giannis’ time as a Buck is over.
Giannis is part of the problem. That might have been the worst 38/20 game in NBA history. He looked scared shitless to shoot anything other than a layup.
Holiday was also a deer in the headlights down the stretch.
28 for 45 from the line. Take away Middleton's 9 for 9 and they were 19 for 36 from the line.
It's going to be weird with no Bucks basketball for 6.5 months.
@ESPNStatsInfo
The Heat trailed by 16 points entering the 4th quarter and won. That is the largest comeback entering a 4th quarter in a series-clinching win in NBA history.
You are not going to win big games in the playoffs if your best player, who goes to the line more than anyone in the league, shoots 43%. It's a complete joke. I know he's banged up but he looked like a clueless rookie.
Just seems like some weird mojo with this team right now including Giannis. The confidence and swagger was there - only it was the Heat, not the Bucks, that had it.
But we’ve seen it before in that when it goes bad it seems to snowball. Losing 4 straight to the Raptors. The bubble year. Now this.
Yet they had the one magical year (2021) and somehow overcame a lot of ups and downs but that seems so long ago now.
This season caps off a pretty miserable year in WI sports- from the Packers and Brewers melting down, to Badgers football and basketball totally underachieving. Bucks getting swept by a one man Butler Miami team is icing on the cake.
I have no idea what the Bucks do or where they go from now.
Starts and ends with Bud in my opinion. Players have proven they can do it before based on the talent level. With a championship comes new challenges and it's the head coach's responsibility to find new and creative ways to motivate the team and create a mentality of champion. That's what dynasty teams can do and what one and done teams don't do. While He didn't play like it this post-season, I don't believe that Giannis can't be or isn't that type of player and leader on the court both physically and mentally. I'd be shocked if ANY franchise wouldn't choose Giannis to build their squad around, but like any talent he's going to need guidance is raising his game and his team's game to a level of all-time greatness.
That’s where I am at with current state of this team.
Let’s be honest- in 2021 the Bucks won a title in spite of Bud’s idiotic schemes and inability to adjust to what the opposition was doing.
2019, 2020, and now 2023 ended with a thud - with Buds team completely outplayed and outcoached. I mean, there can’t be any debate anymore. The game 5 ending was completely nuts, and it very well may have sealed his fate. To openly admit you should have called a TO but didn’t? What THE fuck. C Ya
Jrue Holiday completely shitting the bed for the second playoff ending series in a row is a big concern no matter who the coach is next year.
He was 12 for 42 from three against Miami.
He was 15 for 40 against the Celtics last year.
Jimmy Butler destroyed him.
https://twitter.com/MiamiHeatD...Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Also, Giannis is my favorite Wisconsin sports player of all time, but you can't be terrified to have the ball in your hands in crunch time. This is one of the most embarrassing sequences you'll ever see from a superstar. He's lucky Middleton bailed him out (even though Holiday choked on the FT line to keep it a 2 point game).
I can't stop laughing. That is one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA history.
Something definitely needs to change - Miami is not that good and you'll see in the upcoming series they play in.
Lotsa blame to go around - but WTF happened to Jrue?!?? Good lord
Giannis is the problem
doesn’t play catch with rookies enough.
to cautious, won’t make the risky play.
goes for it all when a little would have been enough.
chokes in the playoffs.
Christian Yelich is the only MVP Wisconsin needs
Everyone knows with this current team that in crunch time Khris Middleton needs to get the ball. Early in game 5 we saw this, but where was he in the 4Q? By my count he had 3 shots the entire 4th quarter, and either 1 or 2 shots in OT. Just dumb.
As for Giannis, I get the criticism but let’s be clear - without him this is a 30 win team at best. He keeps them in the conversation every year he’s in Milwaukee. And unlike most of the other superstars in the league, he’s not a diva or headcase or stat padder or chemistry killer.
Bud has a bit of George Karl in him in that he’s stubborn and commits to certain players despite having glaring weaknesses. I mean, Joe Ingles is a good dude, but he can’t play a lick of defense. Why the hell was Bobby Portis not getting more playing time in games 4 and 5? At least he can put up some resistance and get you boards and bring the energy. Then there’s Gabe Vincent. Why did Javon Carter not get more time defending him? Yes, Butler went crazy but Vincent had 3 of 5 games with 15 or more points. Grayson Allen is not a good playoff guy.
The players are fine. They got no help from Bud in this series. Absolute coaching domination!!!
I’m not sure the overall roster is fine, as they will have to decide what to do with Lopez and whether or not Middleton opts in or opts or extends.
Ingles and Crowder no idea.
On the other hand, Spo coached circles around Bud.
I'm blaming this collapse on Jimmy Haslam, that asswipe just bought partial ownership of the team - and it didn't take long for him to put his loser stamp on the franchise
@Tschmack posted:Everyone knows with this current team that in crunch time Khris Middleton needs to get the ball. Early in game 5 we saw this, but where was he in the 4Q? By my count he had 3 shots the entire 4th quarter, and either 1 or 2 shots in OT. Just dumb.
As for Giannis, I get the criticism but let’s be clear - without him this is a 30 win team at best. He keeps them in the conversation every year he’s in Milwaukee. And unlike most of the other superstars in the league, he’s not a diva or headcase or stat padder or chemistry killer.
Bud has a bit of George Karl in him in that he’s stubborn and commits to certain players despite having glaring weaknesses. I mean, Joe Ingles is a good dude, but he can’t play a lick of defense. Why the hell was Bobby Portis not getting more playing time in games 4 and 5? At least he can put up some resistance and get you boards and bring the energy. Then there’s Gabe Vincent. Why did Javon Carter not get more time defending him? Yes, Butler went crazy but Vincent had 3 of 5 games with 15 or more points. Grayson Allen is not a good playoff guy.
I don't want Giannis to go anywhere. He had a terrible game last night by the eye test. The FTs were a killer. The foul on Strus' 3 was a dumb play to make a foul call possible and was the right call but also involved some flopping from Strus. And, he looked terrified to take a final shot last night. It was bad.
Despite all that, he went for 38 points on better than 50% shooting to go with 20 boards - and he wasn't 100%. If any "normal" player did that, we'd be talking about a generationally great game, but 38/20 isn't good enough for the Bucks to be able to win.
Middleton looked more like 2021 playoff Middleton. Lopez played well. Connaughton gave them a boost off the bench. Matthews was serviceable and played tough.
Holiday, Ingles, Allen, and Portis were 6 for 21 from the floor last night. They were terrible for most of the series. Crowder was even worse when he got on the floor. Carter was also terrible in this series. If they get any contributions from any of those guys, this comeback does not happen - and they probably win Games 4 and 5. That's 6 guys were were basically unplayable. So much for a deep bench.
The problem for the Bucks is that there is no one on the current team that is going to get better next year. Every player on their roster has already peaked. Giannis will still be a superstar, but he's not all of sudden going to become a good jump shooter after 10 years in the league.
I guess you come back with Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday, but they have to do something to upgrade the talent to get more athletic.
The ending sucked, but getting boat raced this way will force them to make some hard decisions. Getting to the EC Finals to get beaten by the Celtics might have made them run it back again.
Middleton has very little trade value and Giannis isn't going anywhere. Lopez is a free agent, and the rest of the guys on the roster are just guys at best. Holiday might be the only guy they can trade to bring back anything of value. Maybe move him to some Western conference fringe contender who he can help. Maybe the Wolves would consider doing something with Towns? Maybe Dallas panics and the Bucks can get into the action (not for Kyrie), but in a three-way trade where Irving goes somewhere, Holiday goes to Dallas, and the Bucks get some younger talent back?
Also, like I said last year, if you can get a duffel bag bull of old gym clothes for Allen you have to do it. The fact that he was on the court for that final possession was criminal (with TWO timeouts left to boot).
I think you fire Bud, trade Jrue to reset things because this group is not going to win a title again, and then have a 2 year plan to try to reload for another 2-3 year window with Giannis.
@mr21mr21 posted:From Reddit:
Bo Ryan should be on the same graph. We do what we do.
Several people accurately pointed out that Bud subbing out Lopez was similar to Popovich subbing out Duncan on the play where Bosh got a rebound to set up Ray Allen's shot to prevent the Spurs from winning that year.
@MichiganPacker posted:Under no circumstances can you allow that lob play at the end of regulation.
HE HAD LOPEZ ON THE FLOOR AND TOOK HIM OUT AFTER THEY SAW THE PLAY. WITH BUTLER ON THE BASELINE. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUKK?
No team with Grayson Allen deserves to win anything
@Goalline posted:The players are fine. They got no help from Bud in this series. Absolute coaching domination!!!
This. 100x this.
Look. I’m the last person to make excuses for a profession athlete making ungodly money. But unless someone has fallen that hard on their lower back and tailbone (I have, having broken bones in both places), let me tell you, it will completely fuck up everything.
Giannis played 10 minutes in game 1. Missed 2 and 3. From what I saw in game 4, he was clearly not right. Now, I couldn’t see game 5 down here in Texas. But judging from what I’ve read, and the highlights I have seen, which paint a very incomplete picture, admittedly, the guy was still not right.
As bad as he was late last night, the man played 42 minutes and grabbed 20 boards.
I’m 51, and I’m a little shit. 5’9, 175lbs. And with pain meds, when that part of my back hurts the way it can, I want to shoot my self.
Giannis is 6’11”, 240+ pounds. And he’s jumping on people, banging into people, making hard contact all over the place.
As soon as I knew what happened to him in game one, I knew we were in deep shit. You can get massage, hydro therapy, acupuncture, chiropractic work, pain meds…the tailbone isn’t going to be right for weeks after hitting it that hard, and every time the man takes a step, it’s taking all he has to ignore the pain, and try to do his job.
The Bucks have gotten crap luck the last two years. Middleton hurt for last post season, Giannis in this year’s. He was able to come back from injury in 2020, and dominate at the end. This is a different injury, and he’s a few years older. Lots more miles on those tires.
His being at 80% is better than most players. But he and KM/Brook cannot do it alone. And the Bucks have gotten nothing from their bench the last two games. Nothing. That depth everyone raves about before the playoffs started…was a mirage. This team has no depth for the playoffs. So many of those pieces cannot match up against playoff teams.
But Mike Budenholzer is the biggest problem. He couldn’t scheme for shit. He is constantly being out coached, and when parts of your team are struggling, or not right, it’s up to the head coach to assess who he has, what those pieces are capable of, and how to deploy them to advantage against the other team.
The freaking Heat were a play in loss from missing the playoffs, and they lost three top line players. And we still couldn’t beat them.
The last play of regulation was emblematic of everything wrong with Bud. And that should be the final mail in his coffin.
Again, the Bucks won a title due to Giannis and Middleton going nuclear. Bud almost screwed them out of it multiple times during that run.
The parallels between the 2010 Packers and 2021 Bucks is eerie.
A post from July of 2021. Question, does Bud deserve an extension?
Yes. He's made more and better adjustments in this year's playoff run than in the last two combined.
There is also the fact that his players play hard for him. I guess you could argue that this set of guys would play hard for any coach, but the fact is they are putting out a supreme level of effort.
I won't say who made the post, but what happened in 2 years?
@ammo posted:A post from July of 2021. Question, does Bud deserve an extension?
Yes. He's made more and better adjustments in this year's playoff run than in the last two combined.
There is also the fact that his players play hard for him. I guess you could argue that this set of guys would play hard for any coach, but the fact is they are putting out a supreme level of effort.
I won't say who made the post, but what happened in 2 years?
As Tschmack said in the post above yours, the parallels between the 2010 Packers and the 2021 Bucks are eerie. The parallels between the 2011 Packers/2022 Bucks and the 2012 Packers/2023 Bucks are also very eerie.
1. A top 25 player in history winning a title at a relatively young age. Giannis was 26 years and 8 months. Rodgers was 27 years and 2 months old.
2. Head coaches that were consistent in their approach, never wavering in their belief in their system, never blaming the players, and both with the attitude that we focus on executing the same game plan over and over no matter who we are playing.
3. Both teams would have likely repeated the following year if not for some freak injuries. Nick Collins neck injury on a tackle attempt that didn't look like anything and Middleton slipping on a wet spot on the floor in Round 1 of the playoffs.
3. An extremely promising season ended way too early two years after the title associated with some of the most mindboggling lack of coaching adjustments in their respective leagues history. The 2012 Packers gave up an NFL playoff record 181 yards rushing to a QB (Colin Kaepernick) and just refused to adjust their scheme. The 2023 Bucks allowed Jimmy Butler to beat them over and over and over again without trying anything to prevent it.
If you fire Bud, you are basically deciding to fire him mainly because of 12 minutes of game time (the final 6 minutes of games 4 and 5 this year). You can't blame him for anything last year and you can't blame him for the Game 1 and 3 losses without Giannis. You also can't blame him for Giannis turning into a scared child at the FT line in Game 5. But the stunning lack of thinking for not calling timeouts at the regulation or overtime is a firable offense, if anything ever was. This is a guy who did a whole interview about how he strategizes to call his use-it-or-lose-it timeout and what part of the floor they wait to call it on (which arguably set up the huge steal in Game 4 when they went to use the timeout). At the end of regulation, if you watch the tape, Middleton immediately goes to call timeout after Butler scores, looks at the bench to do it, and is greeted by a deer in the headlights look from Bud. How can you not call timeout in that situation? Or leave two timeouts available when your halfcourt offense completely breaks down at the end of a must win game in OT? The Bucks couldn't even get the ball inbounds on several crucial plays despite the fact they had the two biggest guys on the court you could lob the ball too if you had to.
It’s not just the timeout and inbounding fiasco. It’s the fact that Bud didn’t even consider changing up defensive adjustments on Butler despite him going bonkers in this series.
I also really question not even bothering to give Crowder a look at all in this series. Or very limited minutes for Matthews. Given how poorly Holiday played that’s mind boggling to me. Perhaps both of those guys would have gotten torched as well but Holiday simply isn’t big enough to defend a guy like Butler for extended periods of time.
I’m not an X and O guy but something needed changing in the last half of the 4th quarters (and OT) in the last 2 games. Those games were won…til they weren’t.
That is coaching, or in these games, not coaching.
@Pikes Peak posted:I’m not an X and O guy but something needed changing in the last half of the 4th quarters (and OT) in the last 2 games. Those games were won…til they weren’t.
That is coaching, or in these games, not coaching.
THIS! I thought both of the last two games were IN THE BAG till Bud got outcoached.
It Is TIME!
I was lamenting they gave up DDV for nothing (Ibaka) last year.
However, he would fit in well with the rest of the Bucks "depth" this year in terms of playoff performance. For Golden State this year, he's 5 for 21 from the floor (and 3 for 11 from three) despite playing with 2 other players that are some of the top shooters of all time that provide incredible spacing.