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Sure looks like a situation where ownership meddled in the head coaching searches. I won't shed a tear when Horst leaves, since he hasn't made a move that has worked since the PJ Tucker trade. His work this summer to assemble a bench unit that would have been over the hill even two years ago has bit them badly in this series when a more serviceable bench unit could have bought them an extra game or two to see if Giannis could return for a Game 6 or 7. Beasley can't guard anyone. Crowder is basically unplayable (a decision Bud also made in last year's playoffs). The fact that Horst waited until the trade deadline last year to acquire Crowder (who had sat out for 9 months) as his only move and then resigned him this year to play a major role off the bench is one of the worst of his tenure. Anyone else but Crowder would have been better to acquire for seemingly every 2nd round pick they could trade. It's almost like he resigned him as an FU to Bud to show him he screwed up by not playing him in last year's playoffs.

He's lucky to have gotten Pat Bev for Payne or this series would be even worse since he's the only guard they have that can play on-ball defense. Holding onto and signing Connaughton, Beasley, and Crowder (and arguably Portis) have all been various levels of disasters.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/...kee-bucks-nba-rumors

Now, why would Horst leave the Bucks for the league’s worst team? He is a Michigan native who got his start working in the NBA as a front office assistant with the Pistons. In his 16 years with the Bucks, he’s risen up the ranks, but his power has dwindled in recent years. Giannis Antetokounmpo was more or less able to choose Adrian Griffin to be the Bucks head coach last summer, even though Horst wanted Nick Nurse. Then ownership chose Doc Rivers, though Horst wanted Warriors assistant Kenny Atkinson. And after years of bolstering the roster around Giannis, the Bucks now have the second-oldest team in the league, have suffered major injuries in three straight postseasons, and don’t have the rights to any of their firsts until 2031. This confluence of circumstances might make the prospect of a fresh, malleable start appealing.

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@tsr86free posted:

Fart in an elevator then walk away. At least we have 2021, We’ll never forget you Horsed

The Bucks won a title because they lucked into a top 25 player all-time with the 15th overall pick in 2013 and got another guy as throw in during the Brandon Jennings trade that year that turned out to be a guy who could get you 40 in playoff game when he was healthy.

The real credit should probably go to Bud. He reimagined the offense around Giannis and completed his transition into a first-ballot HOFer, and saw things in Brook Lopez no one else did and they signed him without having to give up any trade compensation.  

Horst did use basically every remaining asset he had to get Holiday (and then Dame). That was about 12 years of first round picks or pick swaps and a decent role player in Brogdon they got in the 2nd round.

But, in the end, the core of Giannis, Middleton, and Lopez (and one other guy whether it was Bledsoe, Holiday, or Dame) is what made them competitive. The cost of the three core guys that have been here since 2019 was the 15th pick in the draft and nothing else of any value.

They picked one decent player in the first round since Giannis and they gave him away for what was left of Serge Ibaka. And then followed that up by trading every second round pick they had left for Jae Crowder.

Giannis getting hurt the last two years is obviously what sunk them, but if they get any contributions for the assets they gave up to get Crowder and Ibaka, their chances of hanging in there long enough to let Giannis return in a series would have been greatly increased.

A lot of teams miss in the draft and free agency, but the drafting of Maker and DJ Wilson hurt and the signings and trades around the margins (Beasley, Payne, Mirotic, Crowder, Ibaka, Hood, Ojeleye) have greatly outweighed the hits (Tucker, Portis, and younger Connaughton).

They will have a pick at #23 overall this year since the pick swap with New Orleans doesn't hurt them much (21 to 23). Can they package that pick and some combination of Lopez, Connaughton, and Portis for something useful?

I guess I’m not sure I totally agree with the narrative about Milwaukee lucking into their outcomes.  They ate it on Jabari Parker (injury), couldn’t adjust in 2019 despite being up 2-0 in the conference finals and if not for a Middleton fluke injury in 2022 we might be talking 2 or 3 titles in a span of 4 years.  Clearly, they were the best team in the league from 2019-2022.  

Horst probably should go if no other reason than he was the Rob Deer of GMs.  Either a game winning HR or a brutal strikeout.

Where I am at with this group is I think they have one more year to figure things out before potentially blowing it all up.  We have seen a healthy and motivated Dame and Middleton can do a lot in the playoffs.  Giannis obviously makes a difference too.  But make a roster tweak like dealing Lopez and Pat C for a younger more athletic frontcourt or swing player.   That might be enough.  

The last point I’ll make is sometimes the timing and good fortune works in your favor.  Brunson to NY is the perfect example.  No one saw that coming.  Yet Embiid and Philly are a different version of the Bucks and bad luck and until they win a title the jury is out on Boston.  Personally, barring an injury to Jokic I don’t see anyone beating Denver.  

Last edited by Tschmack
@Tschmack posted:

I guess I’m not sure I totally agree with the narrative about Milwaukee lucking into their outcomes.  They ate it on Jabari Parker (injury), couldn’t adjust in 2019 despite being up 2-0 in the conference finals and if not for a Middleton fluke injury in 2022 we might be talking 2 or 3 titles in a span of 4 years.  Clearly, they were the best team in the league from 2019-2022.  

Horst probably should go if no other reason than he was the Rob Deer of GMs.  Either a game winning HR or a brutal strikeout.

Where I am at with this group is I think they have one more year to figure things out before potentially blowing it all up.  We have seen a healthy and motivated Dame and Middleton can do a lot in the playoffs.  Giannis obviously makes a difference too.  But make a roster tweak like dealing Lopez and Pat C for a younger more athletic frontcourt or swing player.   That might be enough.  

The last point I’ll make is sometimes the timing and good fortune works in your favor.  Brunson to NY is the perfect example.  No one saw that coming.  Yet Embiid and Philly are a different version of the Bucks and bad luck and until they win a title the jury is out on Boston.  Personally, barring an injury to Jokic I don’t see anyone beating Denver.  

Ironically, a healthy Bucks team matches up as well as anyone against Denver. Lopez is the perfect guy to guard Jokic and the Nuggets don’t rely on a fast point guard to push the pace. It sucks we won’t get to see that series.

@Tschmack posted:

Horst probably should go if no other reason than he was the Rob Deer of GMs.  Either a game winning HR or a brutal strikeout.



I like that analogy

@Tschmack posted:

I guess I’m not sure I totally agree with the narrative about Milwaukee lucking into their outcomes.  They ate it on Jabari Parker (injury),

You just have to wonder what would have happened if they drafted Embiid

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