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Ok everybody, let's keep things in perspective.

I know we all feel like crap right now. This loss is going to take a while to get over...who knows, maybe we never fully do. After going 15-1, and cruising through the season, we all had high expectations, and dreams of a repeat. Obviously, that is no longer possible.

However, let's look honestly at where the Packers are as a franchise. And at the same time, let's admit that if we had to lose today, maybe it's good we lost the way we did. Because it exposed a light on the issues this team clearly must deal with in the offseason.

Though we were outplayed in every aspect of the game, I believe in Mike McCarthy. Where in seasons before I criticized him, maybe it's a bit odd that I am not being critical of him today after one of our worst losses ever. Why? Because Mike is a smart guy. And smart guys learn from their mistakes. We didn't go 10-6 last year, and blow through 4 teams on the road to bring the Lombardi back home because of luck. Coach McCarthy got us there, and he will get us there again.

He's going to sit down, watch the game film, and learn from some of the things he did today that didn't work out in our favor. He's going to reassess his decision to rest star players before a bye week. The next time, Mike will do things differently. He will look at the 2010 season, when we exceeded expectations, and won it all, then will look at the 2011 season, when we fell short of expectations, and lost in the second round. Ray Rhoades was the guy that always said "we'll get this fixed". Well, I think Coach McCarthy WILL get it fixed. He will come to the realization that regular season record establishes your playoff seeding, and nothing else. It does not guarantee you momentum...quite to the contrary, winning the way we did can take it away from you with too much of a break in the action. So, I don't expect we will see the same decisions made. Should we be in this position again, which I expect we will, Mike will make sure the team is sharp, and that Aaron Rodgers will not be going three weeks between playing in real game conditions. He will realize that "calling the plays, and staying mentally sharp" is not the same thing as throwing the ball.

I also trust Ted to look at this roster, and fix the holes. We had some injuries this year, and losing Nick Collins hurt us more than I think most realize. And losing Cullen Jenkins obviously affected our pass rush. Well, Ted is going to get right to work, figuring how he can make this a better football team. Like Mike, Ted is a smart man. He put together a Super Bowl winning team that had to rely an awful lot on it's depth. He will do it again. Maybe he makes some shrewd moves in the draft. Maybe he surprises us all, and makes some trades in the offseason. But he will put us in a position...a better position...to win it all again.
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I believe lambeausouth wrote his article before the game.

Nobody could write such calm though-out thoughts in the present state of mind of most packer fans...

I am still going from room to room, and speaking in halting-sentences. My dog was shaking (really) hiding in the bedroom, and I never even screamed at the TV. She just felt my tension.
Yes, we could do worse. Also helps to note that in his five seasons, we have been to the playoffs four times, including twice to the NFC Championship game and this year's best record in the NFL.

Far worse would be, oh, Frazier, Schwartz (I don't want a creep like him coaching my beloved Packers), and any number of guys who were fired this year and too numerous to mention.
Last edited by "We"-Ka-Bong
I felt TT made a mistake by not addressing our defense in the early rounds of the draft or free agency in 2011. He didn't draft a front 7 defensive player until the 6th round in D.J. Smith. And BTW, I wouldn't mind seeing more of Smith and less Hawk. I suppose they were hoping for Walden and Neal to fill huge holes in our D, but the risk was pretty high. I know you can't have a stud at every position, but it seemed they were simply hoping somebody would step up. Nobody did. Hopefully, TT learns from that.
I don't think MM could have done anything differently when it came to resting players. After what we saw today, does anyone honestly think that 2 wks off would have made a damn bit of difference rather than 3? AR didn't drop passes or allow 11 out of 10 3rd down completions on D. Belichick didn't have a damn bit of difficulty having his team ready yesterday after 2 weeks off and neither did Harbaugh. If the key really is to not have any time off, there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about that either if you win enough regular season games to earn a bye. He has to figure out how to have his team ready to beat a team in the playoffs AT LAMBEAU FIELD!, no matter the circumstances. I would totally understand if Philbin's tragedy derailed their mindset but my goodness, not a single man (except Philbin) should have a problem getting up for that game today.
quote:
Originally posted by lambeausouth:
quote:
Originally posted by PDXPackFan:
Ted, yes..

Mike, not so much


The last 5 seasons as head coach, McCarthy is 55-25 (that's with that 6-10 clunker in there), with one Super Bowl win.

You could do far worse.


True, but in a what have you done for me lately league... letting a 15-1 season with the MVP at QB AND home field advantage go into the toilet the way it did is not sitting well with me.
quote:
Ok everybody, let's keep things in perspective.

Let's do that.

The Packer offense failed today. And what did we learn more than anything? That they need to continue to pursue better players at every position on the team. No position is "shored up" or "good enough". The Packers need a better RB than what is on this roster. Finley should not be paid like a star.

What was a strength last year became a weakness this year (secondary) because they failed to rush the passer at all this season. No pressure made Pro Bowl players from 2010 into liabilities.

And in a "one game" scenario, the Packer offense was no longer able to carry them because they fumbled the ball 3 times and dropped 7-9 passes. In other words, when their offense wasn't perfect, they didn't have something else to rely upon. Last year, when the offense struggled, the D stepped up and won the game. Time after time. This time, the opposite forumla failed to deliver.

That should drive the personnel department more than anything. They need better defensive front 7 players, and they need to PRAY Collins can return to the player he was.
quote:
Originally posted by Goalline:
TT needs to stay the course. Don't reach to fill an immediate need.


Sorry, but unless he fills the immediate need---pass rusher---then expect more of the same next year. TT has absolutely no choice---draft an impact pass rusher, or pay some big bucks to sign a free agent.

It isn't just an immediate need---it is a glaring and season ending need.
I agree, MC.

The Packers need to become a team that can beat you in more ways than one. This year we won 15 games mostly because Rodgers was able to outperform the other team. But in those two games when Rodgers wasn't at his best, for whatever reason, we lost.

Is James Starks going to be "the guy"? Is Alex Green going to be able to come off of his injury, step up, and be a major contributor? If not, it's pretty clear we need to get a dynamic running back in here. Somebody that other teams will fear, that will add another dimension to this offense. Because right now, though it can be good in spurts, teams do not fear the Packers running the ball.

We need a better running game, and a pass rusher besides Matthews. Create a pass rush....a consistent pressure, and that alleviates some of the pressure on the secondary.

And that secondary needs help. That Hail Mary at the end of the first half was disgusting. Nobody could track the trajectory of the ball, and get their hands up?

Bush and Pepprah are stopgaps. Bush has value on special teams, but he's not a good cover guy at all. Peprah looks lost out there.

Make it happen, Ted.
MM blew it by "sitting down" the starters vs Detroit. So...that happens...even though are numerous examples of previous poor decisions made of a similar nature.

He will always be second-guessed because of it.

MM is an elite HC...no doubt about that anymore. But today, no doubt, he did not have his team ready. And despite the bad and good breaks the Packers got, he did coach them well enough to pull out a win despite some the opportunities they had.


TT...better be looking to draft a great D guy. Or acquire one in a trade.
quote:
Originally posted by missingU92:
I felt TT made a mistake by not addressing our defense in the early rounds of the draft or free agency in 2011. He didn't draft a front 7 defensive player until the 6th round in D.J. Smith.


I didn't think it was a mistake to focus on offense draft wise. I don't think a single soul out there thought the defense would collapse to the level of ineptitude it did when really only 1 player was gone from last year, and that 1 guy wasn't even there for 16 games last year.

Frankly, so many guys regressed or disappointed this year on defense, I'm not sure if 1 draft can fix all that went wrong. Certainly, getting Nick Collins back 100% healthy would fix 1 spot in a huge way, but it's entirely possible his career is over.

TT isn't stupid and he's going to bring in a lot of guys for competition to push the underachievers on the defense. I just don't know if he can find enough guys in 1 off-season to fix a defense that seemed to have a Super Bowl hangover from day 1 that they never totally recovered from.
We've been pretty damn lucky up to this point with both guys.

TT and MM have been nearly flawless, but they weren't this year despite the
15-1 record.

It's tough to be critical of TT when they won the Superbowl last year, but clearly it was a mistake not to resign Cullen Jenkins. I also think they put way too much faith in guys like Zombo and Jones and Walden instead of going out and improving the OLB position.

Then there's McCarthy. You can question resting the starters against Detroit, but yesterday he was brutal. Calling the onsides kick was pure desperation, and the TO before half was mind boggling.

Still, I'd like to think it was just "one of those days" where nothing went their way and everything went the Giants way. With as good as they played all year, I'd say they were due. It just sucks it happened in the playoffs.
IMO the biggest flaws were the lack of a pass rush and Collins injury. They got away with Peprah last year because they could pressure the passer and Collins, unlike Burnett, was more experienced. Burnett was essentially completing his rookie season. They kind of rolled the dice on the younger DL's and Mike Neal came up craps due to injuries. No one wants to overstate Cullen Jenkins ability. But it was amazing how far the play of the other DL dropped without him. A.J. Hawk too.

Yesterday it did appear that the Packers offense was out of synch. They dropped passes. Missed open receivers and fumbled. They played just like no one had been hit in a while. And it seemed players and, more importantly, coaches got flustered when the offense struggled. The Giants beat the Packers with man coverage.

Some players will go. But don't be surprised if some defensive coaches don't go also. Involuntarily.
When it comes to roster depth and salary cap nonsense, I suspect the Pack is sitting better than any team in the league. TT's system in building a team is almost perfect, IMO, but he also needs to flexible and adapt. And, that may mean a free agent signing to shore up an immediate need. It doesn't have to be a budget buster like Haynesworth but it can be a Pickett-like purchase and maybe even Woodson-like signing. It is no unprecedented for him to sign a free agent and not picking up at least two DL bodies may have cost them another trip to the Super Bowl.
quote:
Originally posted by Va. Packer:


Some players will go. But don't be surprised if some defensive coaches don't go also. Involuntarily.


This. I agree. It starts with Dom, but he's probably untouchable. If he accepts a head coaching job (rumors, inc Raiders), it will be interesting. The D coaches and players are probably MM's biggest call right now.
quote:
Originally posted by Fandame:
quote:
Originally posted by Va. Packer:


Some players will go. But don't be surprised if some defensive coaches don't go also. Involuntarily.


This. I agree. It starts with Dom, but he's probably untouchable. If he accepts a head coaching job (rumors, inc Raiders), it will be interesting. The D coaches and players are probably MM's biggest call right now.


WTF, this Defensive staff has been good.

May have been just a little distracted getting resume's together, ya think?
It's not as if we haven't tried drafting on defense.

The following have been drafted in the first three rounds by TT, which is where you legitimately could expect somebody to come in and have an impact.

First Rounders: Hawk, Harrell, Raji, Matthews

Second Round: Neal, Pat Lee, Collins

Third Round: Abdul Hodge, Aaron Rouse, Morgan Burnett

So, three linemen, three linebackers and four defensive backs.

Of the 10, Matthews, Raji and Collins have played to their draft status level. Hawk is an average NFL player. Burnett is at best average.

The rest: not on the team, or still on the team and "busts" (Neal, Lee)
quote:
The offense is going to be fine, if they simply catch the ball.


That is 95% correct. Unfortunately it's the remaining 5% that can end a season like yesterday. There were 6 or 8 drops but the WR's were covered more yesterday than any game I've ever seen them in. NYG were playing man which is exactly what KC did. Jennings is supposed to be the ultimate "man-beater" but I don't know what happened to him yesterday. To really cover their bases and even improve their offense, they need a better running game. On days like yesterday when everybody is dropping the ball (when they get open), falling back on a successful running game to force the D to ease on their pass coverage could do wonders. Better run blocking and possibly a better RB is where the O needs to go, if anywhere.
Alot has been made that the loss of Nick Collins was alarge part of our defence's problems. Think back to the first three games when we gave soooo many yards to the Saints and Panthers. Just maybe it really wasn't the loss of Collins, but just the arrogance of the unit on what happened the last year.

I also think TT was overally impressed with his free agents play last year that he didn't think he needed to draft high on defence. What you see is Tightwad Ted at his worse.
quote:
Originally posted by danhandy:
Alot has been made that the loss of Nick Collins was alarge part of our defence's problems. Think back to the first three games when we gave soooo many yards to the Saints and Panthers. Just maybe it really wasn't the loss of Collins, but just the arrogance of the unit on what happened the last year.

I also think TT was overally impressed with his free agents play last year that he didn't think he needed to draft high on defence. What you see is Tightwad Ted at his worse.


Don't disagree with the draft from last year. We needed a left tackle, given Clifton's age and Sherrod was good long term choice. Cobb was an instant and needed upgrade on return teams. And, Green was third down replacement for Brandon Jackson.

Players who broke out last year (Williams, Raji, Shields) on defense took a step back this year.

He did reach for a couple of rush guys late (Ricky Elmore, Lawrence Guy) who didn't pan out.

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