I Heart Bart

I sense that there's no love lost between Aaron and TOG.

Wow, I knew Bart Starr was still around, but to find out he's been mentoring Rodgers for 3 years now? That's Holy Crap cool.

If this was Facebook, I would like this, or friend it, or something!

Starr was without a doubt the best QB I have seen. In those days QBs even called their own plays. He did not get the stats that TOG got since the seasons were so much shorter. But IMHO Starr was much better QB than TOG.

Five world titles. He took time to talk to a 16-year-old kid when he was preparing to play the Redskins in a playoff game while they practiced in Winston Salem, NC, back in the early 70's. He's a coach, he's preparing for a playoff, and he talked to me, one on one, for nearly 15 minutes in a room off to the side from the hotel reception area. He's absolutely the best.

quote:

Originally posted by BobC1:
Starr was without a doubt the best QB I have seen. In those days QBs even called their own plays. He did not get the stats that TOG got since the seasons were so much shorter. But IMHO Starr was much better QB than TOG.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

I have said this many times before. At least 10 year's ago, I concluded that Favre likely could not lead the Pack to a SB win.

Why not? Because this requires 3 straight wins and by this time he was incapable of NOT making some horrific decision the team likely could not recover (win) from. Just look at it. Look at the INT in OT in 4th and 26. Look at the INT in OT against Giants. Look at the INT against Saints last year. I remember the pass against the Vikings in the playoffs when he could have walked in the endzone instead (may have been an INT, don't remember).

DECISION-MAKING.

Favre scores a D at best, Starr an A at worst.

Starr was better than Favre - hands down.

The loss accrued due to horrific decisions (and often at horrific times) exceeds the gains accrued by his incredible physical skills.

IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Starr >>>>>> Favre.

Bert's playoff performances post 1997 speak for themselves

quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus:
I remember the pass against the Vikings in the playoffs when he could have walked in the endzone instead (may have been an INT, don't remember).

I can't forget it. It was on that play that I new he was done. It wasn't a int, it was a illegal forward pass. He was well past the LOS and he would have had to take a hit but he would have scored and he had the first down. He chicken****ted it and passed up the hit and threw the ball to avoid it. He was done, he had lost the fire.

quote:

Originally posted by KonKrete:

quote:

Originally posted by phaedrus:
I remember the pass against the Vikings in the playoffs when he could have walked in the endzone instead (may have been an INT, don't remember).

I can't forget it. It was on that play that I new he was done. It wasn't a int, it was a illegal forward pass. He was well past the LOS and he would have had to take a hit but he would have scored and he had the first down. He chicken****ted it and passed up the hit and threw the ball to avoid it. He was done, he had lost the fire.

I don't know if I would go as far as to say he was done, but he dropped a few notches, in my book.

Oh, and to clarify. I didn't think he could avoid some horrific decision for 3 straight games against decent opponents. Certainly, he had it in him to play at a consistently high level for at least one game.

KonKrete, glad you remember that play. It is etched in my mind to some degree (even though I could not even remember whether or not it was an INT). How he did not choose to run it in is extremely telling. Contrast that with Elway in the SB against us.

By then, something was lost.

quote:

Originally posted by mr21mr21:
Bert's playoff performances post 1997 speak for themselves

I beleive AR has more post-season wins than Favre since the Packers appeared in SB XXXII.

I hope that also means he will stay in GB until his career over.

I met Bart once. Casually spent about an hour or two with him. Never forget it.

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:
I beleive AR has more post-season wins than Favre since the Packers appeared in SB XXXII.

TOG is 3-6 and AR is 3-1.

I met Bart Starr once, when I was about 10 years old. I was paralyzed with awe-couldn't speak.

We as fans have a tendency to place celebrities (athletes, politicians, artists) on pedestals of virtue they haven't earned and from which they fall eventually. With the notable exception of Mr. Starr.

Favre 4-7 post SB 32. Rodgers will tie him Sunday. Rodgers already has as many road wins in the post season as Favre had his entire career.

As far as that pass against the Vikings, he also had that stupid smirk on his face after he threw it and I think the announcer even laughed about it.

The 3-6 record is just with the Packers. AR has won as many playoff games as TOG did in his last ten years with the team.

His legacy will forever be stained by a series of critical mistakes in playoff games.

Favre is 11-20 all time, maybe 16-20.

As an example, how can anyone place Favre higher than Otto Graham? You can't do it. No way. No way Bart Starr. No way Unitas.

I am not an apologist for #4 but regardless of what came after SB 32 he brought the Packers Reggie, he helped usher in the new/current state of the team including the stadium and really helped to put the Pack back on the map along with Holmgren and Wolf.

The guy obviously has problems. Michael Jordan was the MOST competitive person on the planet and a MONSTROUS jerk especially in a competitive situation and womanizer as well but I rarely hear more than a chuckle about his issues.

Bart = Great near the greatest in many categories but especially a great guy, a gamer and a WINNER.
Brett = currently not everyone's fav and he certainly earned a lot of it but the piling on is making me nauseous. Yes lots of INTs yes many in bad situations BUT he was one of the parts that helped to get us there. There are many that seem to all but say that the Packers would have been better off without him after 2000 or 2004. Everyone would have had Sherman's head.

Can't Bart be great without calling Brett a big tool? Can AR be great without saying wow glad we don't have #4? In those three the Packers have more great (one with plenty of potential still on front of him) qbs than many/most teams/fans could hope for. Examples off the top of my head:

Brady = 1 great QB for the Pats
Fran = 1 great QB for the Vikes
Broadway Joe = 1 great QB for the Jets
Detroit ?????
Tampa ?????
Bears ????

That being said there are plenty of teams like the Eagles who have a bunch of HOF qbs that are not GREAT to the level of these the first two and hopefully AR (who has to win to be over Jaws and McNabb).

I get some of the Michael Jordan comparisons....but Jordan never completely turned against his team and Chicago fans the way Favre did:

Being totally dishonest about the details of his parting with the Packers
Manipulating the Jets through his "retirement" so that he could get to Minnesota
Calling Matt Millen to offer advice on how to beat the Packers ("allegedly")
Offering encouragement to Julius Peppers to beat the Packers
Admitting that he wanted to come to Minnesota to "stick it to Ted"

I don't think most Packer fans will ever forget, or deny, the great positive impact he had on the revival of the franchise and how special he was on the field. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) GB fans are rightly very proud of the franchise and the way it is represented both on and off the field. Everyone looked past the Vicodin addiction, the drinking and womanizing of his youth, but at a time when he should have been more mature, he showed major character flaws - flaws that were not acceptable to a fan base that expects much more.

Saying Favre is over-rated and should be 11-20 or 16-20 all time can be 100% compatible with your post CHEEZE, as well as everything else I said.

Being (say) the 15th greatest QB in the history of the game is pretty darn impressive.

Notice I did not say that he does not deserve a ton of criticism. My main issues is how many QB conversations lead down this very familiar road now. I know that I digressed but what does this have to do with Bart Starr and love for him?

quote:

Originally posted by CHEEZE:
Notice I did not say that he does not deserve a ton of criticism. My main issues is how many QB conversations lead down this very familiar road now. I know that I digressed but what does this have to do with Bart Starr and love for him?

I hear ya.

I can easily separate the 90s Brett from the aught Bert. Loved 90s, detested aught. But even 90s Brett will ever rise in my mind to the stature that is Bart Starr. I've been lucky enough to bump into him annually at the Lombardi Classic and I know of no one more gracious and humble. The best.

Deion Sanders ask Rodgers if he reached out to Brent or if Brent reached out to him to get some Super Bowl insight, Rodgers answer "no" and Deion chuckled and said, "nuff said".

sweet avatar TTPF.
makes me laugh the same way I did when ol' TOG made Kevin Greene completely whiff at Lambeau once upon a time. Kevin ended up chest down in the dirt as TOG side-stepped and then completed a pass.