James Campen

I sure hope Henry doesn't find out where you live 

Pro Bowler!

YooperPackfan posted:

I sure hope Henry doesn't find out where you live 

Yup, fear for his life.

Mark Spitz is still my all time favorite Packer. He's a guy you never heard about, almost like he was invisible, which is a great trait for OL to have. 

Probably laughed at the opponents swim move. 

Wrong.  TT just figured out how to draft guys that already knew how to play.  All actually played the position in college at a decent to high level.  You don't see any "projects" anymore.  Cogmen is the same as always.

Heck, Breno and Barbre got away from Campen and have developed serviceable careers. 

Colledge was no pillar when he was here either.  Let's not forget the immortal Big Ern and now Barclay.

Both Barbe and Breno were said "projects".

Do not discount that Campen may actually be getting better at his job.  I will give you the early years were brutal, but at least he had guys like Clifton, Tauscher, and Wells to ease his learning curve.  He just finished his 10th season as OL coach and I feel good about ushering in Lang's successor.  I agree TT seems to have an eye for OL talent, but to not give Campen any credit is obtuse.  Another contributing factor is consistency at the QB - this helps chemistry adjusting to blocking assignments as AR12 barks out the play call.

Cogbot.  You're dead to me.  

Campen's strength has always been on the inside. Barbre and Giacomini are T's. The past few seasons McCarthy has had an Offensive Line Assistant with more experience working the edge guys. Either they played OT or have experiencing coaching with OL/Tight Ends, etc...

And, we must remember that Aaron Rodgers makes everyone look better. Except Capers. There are some things even A-A-Ron can't mask.

Wile E. Compers with a new super genius defense.  Can't mask what you don't know.

Campen

I'm confused, it seems like you're saying that getting good players can make a even bad coach look competent? The defense requires a coach who can elevate the players beyond their talents though and accumulating quality players to negate the mediocre coaching isn't acceptable? Even though it works on the OL. McCarthy is a REALLY bad judge of coaching talent...no wonder he's constantly winning losing games and always rarely making the playoffs. 

MM is an offensive minded coach.  So I should add MM's offensive tilt along with TT drafting competent players lets Cogmen to do what he does, which is pretend he's doing little more than teaching basics to guys coming into the NFL.  He isn't developing ****.  

Speaking of schit, that's what Henry's shoveling this morning

Bak was a college LT who was drafted to be a Center because he didn't have the athleticism to play LT in the NFL. That's why he was passed over 125 times

Bulaga was a college guard and LT and became on the best RTs in the league

Sitton was an LT, became a LG and an RG

Lang was an LT, became a talented LG and then RG

Tretter was a TE, then an LT, but turned into a talented Center and utility guy

If you run through the team, most of them aren't playing their college positions and all of them were passed over for allegedly better players. And all of them developed NFL bodies and NFL skills in GB, melding into one of the best OLs in the league. And only (1) 1st rounder among them

Take your tired-ass cogbot bullschit and shove it where the sun don't shine, sunshine.... 

And all played at a high level in college as olinemen.  You're going to credit Campen for Tretter's switch to T his last two years at Cornell?  Tretter was projected as a C before he was ever drafted.  I give Tretter's sister more credit than Cogmen.  

And any "passed over in the draft" excuse speaks to TT knowing talent vs Cogmen developing squat diddly.  TT stopped with the projects & "athletes" and started selecting guys who just played sound football.

Campen and the O-Line have been praised by opposing coaches and scouts for their pass protection success. Doing something right. 

Campen for President

Except I don't see the "praise" for Campen.  I see the praise for the guys on the line.  The praise for Campen comes from the players stating he lets them play the way they want to play and are comfortable with.  

Nor do I see where this is Campen's innovation.  Cogbot.

Henry posted:

And all played at a high level in college as olinemen.  You're going to credit Campen for Tretter's switch to T his last two years at Cornell?  Tretter was projected as a C before he was ever drafted.  I give Tretter's sister more credit than Cogmen.  

And any "passed over in the draft" excuse speaks to TT knowing talent vs Cogmen developing squat diddly.  TT stopped with the projects & "athletes" and started selecting guys who just played sound football.

Lots and lots of OL play at a high level in college. Literally hundreds of them.

Only a few of them make the leap to playing at a high level in the NFL.

I listed an entire bevy of players who made the leap in GB and all you can come back with is that Tretter was projected to Center ?

You're slipping old man, and next week marks another trip around the Sun.

As far as any change in TT: Maybe

But the Packers just drafted a KR/WR and turned him into a RB. They also drafted baseball and basketball athletes and turned them into NFL corners. They drafted another "lousy" OT ( Murphy) and will turn him into an an NFL OG.

Jeff Janis isn't an athlete/project ? Trevor Davis isn't an athlete/project ? Truth is , all of these guys are projects, that speaks to the huge canyon between college and the pros. None of them are ready-made, they all need development.

I don't think you have as tight a grip on the Packers' strategery as you imagine, but who am I to argue with your olfactory omniscience ?

Henry posted:

MM is an offensive minded coach.  So I should add MM's offensive tilt along with TT drafting competent players lets Cogmen to do what he does, which is pretend he's doing little more than teaching basics to guys coming into the NFL.  He isn't developing ****.  

 

Our OLine has succeeed at a very high level, but overall it is talent causing that success rather than coaching aside from "the basics"? Is that what I'm gathering? 

So why can't TT just bring in talent to solve the defense and overcome the coaching? Seems easier than trying to install a new coordinator and system. Based on our OL it seems like a realistic solution.

Those guys aren't olinemen. 

Plus my old man crotchediness will not allow me to change my mind.  Plus it's a great schtick.  

Grave Digger posted:

Henry posted:

MM is an offensive minded coach.  So I should add MM's offensive tilt along with TT drafting competent players lets Cogmen to do what he does, which is pretend he's doing little more than teaching basics to guys coming into the NFL.  He isn't developing ****.  

 

Our OLine has succeeed at a very high level, but overall it is talent causing that success rather than coaching aside from "the basics"? Is that what I'm gathering? 

So why can't TT just bring in talent to solve the defense and overcome the coaching? Seems easier than trying to install a new coordinator and system. Based on our OL it seems like a realistic solution.

As I stated, MM is offensive minded and controls that offense.  Cogmen is a foot soldier. 

Now on defense you have Wizardie E. Compers running the show.  You connect the dots.  Besides, Compers is a new DC every year anyways.

It doesn't matter though, tallant drumpfs coaching. It's up to TT to find tallant to overcome those nincompoops up in the booth. 

Do you see Campen running the offense?  

Maybe he does, maybe he's the brains behind the whole thing. He has the highest performing unit on the whole offense. 

Proofs in the pudding. 

Just the fact that Campen is smart enough to copy Larry Bieghtol's teachings should be enough to make you wanna hug him. 

I can give him credit for following Beightol's lead but that's debatable.  

Anyone remember the pure ZBS horse**** they tried to run?  Yeah, that looked great. 

Satori posted:

Speaking of schit, that's what Henry's shoveling this morning

 

He is also eating it. I just feel bad for Koopla. He was such as nice fella. I'll miss him.

Koopla assembled a heck of post, hopefully he'll do more of those before he gets busy with being busy

In all seriousness though, part of that issue was that Jeff Jagoffzinski was brought on as OC to install the ZBS with Philbin as OL coach and he bailed before they could make any meaningful gains with that transition. I don't blame him for taking a HC job, but he was supposedly Alex Gibbs' understudy and I think was a big part of establishing the zone scheme in GB. Philbin got bumped to OC and Campen got installed as OL coach after only coaching for 3 seasons as an assistant. No one has been able to replicate Gibbs' success with the ZBS outside of his direct assistants like Jagoff and Tom Cable, much less an assistant coach who hadn't played or coached in the scheme but for 1 season (2006). To be fair to Campen also, they were 3rd in the NFL in sacks (19 total) in 2007, his first year as OL coach. I think he did a decent job with Mark Spitz and Daryn Collage. 

Grave Digger posted:

In all seriousness though, part of that issue was that Jeff Jagoffzinski was brought on as OC to install the ZBS with Philbin as OL coach and he bailed before they could make any meaningful gains with that transition. I don't blame him for taking a HC job, but he was supposedly Alex Gibbs' understudy and I think was a big part of establishing the zone scheme in GB. Philbin got bumped to OC and Campen got installed as OL coach after only coaching for 3 seasons as an assistant. No one has been able to replicate Gibbs' success with the ZBS outside of his direct assistants like Jagoff and Tom Cable, much less an assistant coach who hadn't played or coached in the scheme but for 1 season (2006). To be fair to Campen also, they were 3rd in the NFL in sacks (19 total) in 2007, his first year as OL coach. I think he did a decent job with Mark Spitz and Daryn Collage. 

Don't disagree.  At the beginning it seemed like TT couldn't find olinemen at all because of trying to fit the scheme for that idiot Jagowaffles.  Why they decided to stick with it was beyond me.  I mean I get Campen has a mind unlike any other, much like The Wizard, but it sure wasn't working under his mastery.  

Goalline posted:

Satori posted:

Speaking of schit, that's what Henry's shoveling this morning

 

He is also eating it.

Millions of dogs can't be wrong. 

Satori posted:

Koopla assembled a heck of post, hopefully he'll do more of those before he gets busy with being busy

I wish I could get busy too.

Does your hand have a headache?

No, it is just repulsed by me.

Thompson acquires football players. 

Packdog posted:

Campen and the O-Line have been praised by opposing coaches and scouts for their pass protection success. Doing something right. 

Campen for President

Not according to Queenie fans. The Pack had success because they held on every play.  Heck they were all giddy thinking Lang would sign with them and be able to teach "Holding for Dummies" in the first OTA's 

Grave Digger posted:

I'm confused, it seems like you're saying that getting good players can make a even bad coach look competent? The defense requires a coach who can elevate the players beyond their talents though and accumulating quality players to negate the mediocre coaching isn't acceptable? Even though it works on the OL. McCarthy is a REALLY bad judge of coaching talent...no wonder he's constantly winning losing games and always rarely making the playoffs. 

ahem...

The bar for Capers is now "can we get enough good players so even he looks good?"

McCarthy is overly loyal and doesn't like change.  That kind of consistency and "stay the coursedness" makes him a good coach, until it does cost you games because....

wait for it

I think Capen has evolved.  Nice to see that in a coach.