Lessons from the Eagles recent success

Pack88 posted:

 The Queens are a different team at home and would have beaten Phila  at home!! 

Bull****

I think GB is in decent shape on the DL. They need an edge rusher and a CB fairly early in the draft. I would not rule out looking at Malcom Butler either in FA. I don’t think Butler is all world but he’s a great option as a 3rd CB with King and Randall. And he’s durable. 

GB has to address the OL. They need long term answers at RT and RG. Philly rode their OL to a SB victory. GB is way too thin on depth and talent on the OL today. 

Beyond that GB has to get more creative on offense. They need to execute simple fundamentals like screen plays better  than they have. They need to get away from simple WR stick routes that rely far to heavily on Rodgers. They need a TE but more importantly they need to learn how to use a TE effectively. Philbin has a lot on his plate that he’s got to address quickly. I’m so effing glad to have him back though. Even when GB was 4-1 before Rodgers was lost the offense looked stagnant. It never had a rhythm. It was 100% Rodgers. 

They have 12 picks in the draft. They need to take the best player available at 14 regardless of position. They should select three OL, 2 CB, 2 Edge, WR at a minimum and then fill in the rest. 

JMO. 

Gee, I wonder if any of those “need” positions could be filled via free agency. Wonder if the Packers even have the cap space to explore. 

It's also a fool's errand to chase success by replicating what another team did.  Focus on what you do best and improve what you do worst.  The success PHI had is not based on anything unusual (strong OL/DL) other than Pederson/Foles combo.  Which you can't really replicate.  Sure MM can improve but it's a bit of a non sequitur to just want him to "be more like Pederson or Belichick".  Also, sometimes teams catch lightning in a bottle, catch a few breaks.  GB in 2010 vs. 2011 is a perfect example.  They were ascending in 2010 but got some breaks and outstanding performances late in the season where they mattered most.  In 2011 they were best team in the league all season and hit a perfect storm in the post season.  

Not a great FA year. Pretty thin talent pool. Jarvis Landry and Malcom Butler are standouts that could help GB immediately though. 

After that Andrew Norwell (G), Justin Pugh (G), and Lamarcus Joyner (DB) are worthy of consideration. 

There really isn't a mystery to it, they just got the roster in better shape. They bolstered thin positions with veteran depth like Torrey Smith, Alshon Jeffrey, Chance Warmack, and Chris Long. They made some shrewd trades for Ron Darby and Jay Ajayi. Howie Roseman knew it would take 5+ years to draft his way out of undoing the mess that Chip Kelly created, so he paid the price in free agency. Roseman is a good GM and made good picks in free agency, he didn't go hog wild signing every bum available. They got lucky to some extent also, they got good LaGarrett Blount and not the one Pittsburgh had a few years ago and that guys like Torrey Smith and Chris Long still had some gas in the tank. Roseman also hired a good coach in Doug Pederson who hired good coordinators in Scwartz and Reich. 

GB has a lot of talent, but they also need to bolster depth with some proven vets. Sign and draft a FS, an ILB, a CB, and a TE and this team is as good as any other team in the league. A better backup QB wouldn't hurt either. 

Chilijohn I absolutely agree but I do suspect McCrae could work at RG but tackle worries me.  I also agree about the use of TE's and flow of the offense!  It is troubling because I could see the concept  they wanted to employ  but when the Oline was ravaged it all fell apart!  I don't disagree about your draft breakdown,  for me one guy on the practice squad intrigues me -Kofi Ameche.  He has great athletic potential but looked clueless last year.  Should he have improved this would help with the back up center positon( which is also a serious issue) and means that draft capitol at the top end could be expended.

One last thought speed WR.  After the offseason workouts are through if Gute is not convinced that TD is going to significantly help the offense some deep speed must be found

Right now McCrae looks like serviceable depth but you have to do better than him as a starter. He is a poor mans Taylor today. 

I don’t view WR speed as a true need. I think there are so many fundamental improvements that need to be made on offense to unleash everything Rodgers has to offer before you get to deep threat. IMO the best way to unlock explosive plays is to create a completely lethal short to intermediate passing game with a run game behind a dominant OL. Do that and you won’t need world class speed to make plays over the top. 

Agree with GD and DH that the Packers don’t need to emulate Philly. They have the best QB on the planet. They just need to be the best version of the Packers that they are capable of being. And I think they’ve done the right things this offseason to let that happen. 

It's interesting how the wind has changed in X4 Forum land and now signing vet QB backups and free agents in general is met with a happy face and not vitriol.

I sincerely hope Gut never becomes a FA day 1 bidder. If he effectively utilizes FA to continually churn the roster to deliver the best 53 to Mike and Mike utilizes those 53 to maximize their ability with the staff he has in place things should work out fine. 

Good FA QB's go to a team where they might have a chance to play or a team where the starting QB doesn't make $20 million or more.

Assemble a top flight OL with depth. Add a CB. Add an Edge rusher. Let Philbin open up the offense. Pettine has no tape. 

Imagine how energized Rodgers is if everyone is truly all in.

“Gentlemen. We are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I’m not remotely interested in being good” 

chickenboy posted:

It's interesting how the wind has changed in X4 Forum land and now signing vet QB backups and free agents in general is met with a happy face and not vitriol.

STFU! 

PackLandVA posted:

Gee, I wonder if any of those “need” positions could be filled via free agency. Wonder if the Packers even have the cap space to explore. 

The Packers had a need at TE this past season and signed a free agent in Martellus Bennett.  How did that work out for them?

Fedya posted:

PackLandVA posted:

Gee, I wonder if any of those “need” positions could be filled via free agency. Wonder if the Packers even have the cap space to explore. 

The Packers had a need at TE this past season and signed a free agent in Martellus Bennett  2 free agents.  How did that work out for them?

Grave Digger posted:

Howie Roseman knew it would take 5+ years to draft his way out of undoing the mess that Chip Kelly created, so he paid the price in free agency. Roseman is a good GM and made good picks in free agency, he didn't go hog wild signing every bum available. They got lucky to some extent also, they got good LaGarrett Blount and not the one Pittsburgh had a few years ago and that guys like Torrey Smith and Chris Long still had some gas in the tank. 

It also helps to trade a backup QB to MIN for multiple high picks.  Bradford can thank MIN for screwing his chances at being a SB champ.

Viking players win Super Bowls before they’re Vikings. Viking players win Super Bowls after they're Vikings. Viking players don’t win Super Bowls while they’re Vikings or had no say in becoming a Viking. 

Updated. 

Randy Moss would like a word with you.

I seem to recall that the Vikings helped the Cowboys win a number of Super Bowls as well.

Fedya posted:

PackLandVA posted:

Gee, I wonder if any of those “need” positions could be filled via free agency. Wonder if the Packers even have the cap space to explore. 

The Packers had a need at TE this past season and signed a free agent in Martellus Bennett.  How did that work out for them?

Brilliant logic. MB was a bad signing so all FA signings must be bad. 

Glad they always have a bunch of cap room. Never know when it might be needed for the next stadium renovation.

in the mean time, I’m sure they’ll fill all/most of their needs through this yesr’s draft. Like they do every year. Because those fresh out of college players are a sure thing.

Don’t worry Aaron, the talent is right around the corner. You’ll get to your second SB in no time.

Actually, my point was that even when the Packers do try to improve themselves via free agency, it's still a crap shoot and not the panacea some people seem to think it is.

PackLandVA posted:

 

in the mean time, I’m sure they’ll fill all/most of their needs through this yesr’s draft. Like they do every year. Because those fresh out of college players are a sure thing.

Please point me to a quote of someone making that statement.  Or a post with that sentiment.

Or are you just whining?

If CJ is arguing that the Packers have gone too far in the direction of draft and develop and gotten too far away from free agency, that's not an unreasonable argument to make.

I've just long had a problem with the fans (I'm not saying CJ is among them) who for years said, "Ooh, shiny free agent whose name I recognize is available!  Sign him, Ted Thompson, sign him!" (It's Gutekunst now but you get the point I hope.)

Ahmad Brooks was a really good FA signing. Jahri Evans was a great FA signing. 

Bennett was a very good sign but he figured out in short order he wanted out. Combination of operational fail and Bennett thinking the work wasnt worth the effort.

There is no point arguing for or against the merits of Bennett. 

I don't expect Gutekunst to approach FA significantly differently than Thompson did. The difference will be UFA vs Thompson's affinity for street FA's, though don't see Gutekunst over-spending - so more in line with Thompson here for UFA's. Thompson name FA's in '17 (Brooks-street, Evans-UFA, House-UFA, Kendricks-UFA, Bennett-UFA).

I expect a vet QB brought in to compete. I won't be surprised if Hundley is the #2 again. This will essentially be Hundley's 3rd TC. (League) year 2 he spent in the tub.

A creative game plan designed against the opponent that week might help. 

Dynamic changes to attack an opponents weakness?!?!?

McCarthy will have none of that....

"We do what we do."

What Boris said. Funny how BB doesn’t work like that.

"They have 12 picks in the draft. They need to take the best player available at 14 regardless of position." 

I agree with Chillijon's assessment. The Packers have quite a few positional needs, so using the 14th pick to nab the Best Player left on the Board can only be a good thing for the Packers. It's bound to fill a need. After that, we can go after players targeted by Gute, Pettine and Philbin.

How was BB's game plan against the Eagles?

Packers have 2 picks in Rd 3 and 4 picks in round 5. 9 total picks the first 5 rounds. 

Thanks Ted. 

GBFanForLife posted:

How was BB's game plan against the Eagles?

Offensively it was OK

GBFanForLife posted:

How was BB's game plan against the Eagles?

Not as good as Pederson’s. Hence the relevance of this comment to the threAd topic. 

If we're just talking O then that's debatable considering it was the PHI D that made the game changing play, strip/sack of Brady late in the 4th.  You could say PHI had a better D plan, by a hair.  Also consider BB/TB was going against the #4D while Foles/Pederson were going against a much lesser foe.   I'll give PHI credit for forcing TB into the shorter passing game but what happens if Graham doesn't get to Brady?  We've seen that script play out too many times.  I fully expected him to drive them to the win in the final seconds.  Nothing in the 2nd half of that game suggested otherwise.

I was the opposite. I expected Philly to make some defensive play to win, even if it was in OT. The Eagles just had that look, that confident not-overbearing swagger that they were going to win no matter what, no matter how. For the Pats, it seemed like they were all waiting for Brady to carry them on his back. He almost did it, too.

I hear ya.  I was impressed with PHI.  But NE was down all game until the 4th Q when Brady started heating up, took the lead and I just thought it was another repeat of an episode I had seen too many times.  They hadn't accomplished much in the first half but they looked like the same old team in the 4th.  They had been making a living on 4th Q comebacks in big games for several years now.  It finally caught up to them.  

ChilliJon posted:

Packers have 2 picks in Rd 3 and 4 picks in round 5. 9 total picks the first 5 rounds. 

Thanks Ted. 

TT always seemed to use those extra thirds or fifths to move up in round 3 or 4.  I don't think we'll end up with 12 picks.

I think 2017 was the first year teams were allowed to trade comp picks. 

Could see some of the 5th round picks in play. I could also see GB move down from 14 to acquire more picks as well though. 

I think it’s a wise idea to keep as many of those 9 picks in the first 5 rounds to potentially find some quality starters though. 

Listened to the full unedited version of Jason Kelce’s speech today at Philly’s parade. 

Few thoughts. 

Thats a 6th round pick that absolutely dominated NE 4 days ago. Pro Bowler. All Pro. And listening to him today, you absolutely want a little unhinged lunacy like that at C that has everyone’s back. 

Give me guys like that on the OL please.