Mahomes or Mayfield??

I agree with that assessment, Goldie. Mahomes for me. I see Mayfield playing for the vikings in 20 years. 

Have the two trade teams and get back to me on that.

Though Mayfield's sample size is even smaller than Mahomes, Mahomes sure shows some serious skills.  Alliteration not being one of them. Kaepernick looked all world for a span of time once too-and not just vs Capers.  Not to compare the two but let's see how he responds to defenses once there is enough tape on him to respond to.  Or if their offense suffers an injury or two.

Get back to me in a couple of years....both look like they have a shot and I hope they make it.  Good qb'ing makes for good games and that's what I am into.  Staying upright will be the key.  Good luck to all the young guys.

Mahomes looks absolutely fantastic.  If there is one thing that will temper any evaluation of him, it's that at this time last year, Alex Smith was lighting up the league like he never had before on the Chiefs with this same offense but fizzled as the year went on.  Now I will say that Mahomes looks like he has athletic tools that are greater than Smith in just about every way, so I expect him to continue to look great and not tail off quite as badly as Smith did.

Mayfield looks good but he's on a team that has way less talent and he's not going to have as much help as Mahomes does.  The biggest concern I see with Mayfield is that he isn't a big guy and may be more prone to injuries with some of the hits he takes. Looks like a really good prospect though, I think the Browns may have hit on him.

Good point on Smith last year.  Mahomes may have more in athleticism but he has less in experience and in the kind of "efficiency" Smith excelled at.  It's a long season.

I think at their current track we could be seeing two really good QB's for the future.  But the question to me is as NFL defenses adapt to them (and we all know they will eventually) will they keep it up? I say let's get back to this question in 2-3 years. 

My question is am I only the only that gets irriated when the media wants to compare these two to Favre?   

Josh Allen. 

The Heckler posted:

I think at their current track we could be seeing two really good QB's for the future.  But the question to me is as NFL defenses adapt to them (and we all know they will eventually) will they keep it up? I say let's get back to this question in 2-3 years. 

My question is am I only the only that gets irriated when the media wants to compare these two to Favre?   

Yes, and double yes......

Pffttt....J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS

 - Sam Darnold

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Pffttt....J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS

If Darnold pans out the world may be coming to an end. Why? in the same year the Jets and the Browns may have found franchise QB's after searching for what a combined 75 seasons.   It has been nice knowing you all by the way.

The Heckler posted:

My question is am I only the only that gets irriated when the media wants to compare these two to Favre?   

I find them silly as well.  Actually the guy I've seen that reminds me a little bit more of Favre is Mitch Trubisky.  The way he moves in the pocket reminds me of Favre a bit, and he has a reckless side to him, though his arm is a notch lower than Favre in terms of arm strength. 

Mahomes doesn't remind me of Favre at all from what I've seen of him so far.  He's not as reckless, he's much quicker, and just overall I don't see Favre in him.  Heck it wasn't until Favre was well into his 4th season that he finally cemented his place as a starter.  Favre started in his 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year but was so inconsistent he was nearly benched at times.  Mahomes is stone cold cemented in early in his 2nd year and there's no sign he'll be benched for the next 20 years or so.  He's a phenom even more impressive than Favre was at that age.

As great as Favre was, it wasn't until mid to late '94 that he really began his Hall Of Fame level of play.  Mahomes is playing at a Hall Of Fame level right out of the chute, that is pretty amazing.  That doesn't mean he'll be a Hall of Famer of course, but his level of play for a 2nd year guy is exceptional and he's one to be watched for the future.

I think we’re going to start seeing more and more “great” QBs in the league, mostly because the rules are set up for them to succeed. You can’t hit them anymore and DBs get called for PI  on every other pass attempt. 

Without question, the rules are much more beneficial to QBs than they were even just as recently as say 10-15 years ago.

One other thing that does benefit QBs of today is that I think some of these guys have had excellent coaching in the passing game through high school and college and are more advanced coming into the NFL than QBs were say 20-30 years ago.

Going back to Favre again, when he was in high school, he ran a veer offense and might only throw the ball 5 times a game.  He did pass the ball quite a bit more in college of course, but he was really raw untapped potential coming into the NFL.

 A guy like Mahomes already had a 5000 yard passing season in college, so he already had quite a bit of experience before he ever took an NFL snap.  There is an adjustment of course going from college to the NFL, but some of these guys are much more ready for it than they used to be.

Another thing that will lead to greater QB play, it wasn't that long ago that teams didn't put their best athletes at QB.  If guy was too slow to play RB/WR etc. they might try him at QB if he had good motor skills.  Nowadays, you'll see more exceptional athletes that try out at the position and some of them have the mental makeup to be QBs.  There just weren't that many great athletes at QB many years ago, and I think nowadays there are many more really good athletes at the position than there ever were.  Of course there are exceptions as Tom Brady is one of the best to ever lace them up and he's as unathletic as any QB out there these days.

bdplant posted:

I think we’re going to start seeing more and more “great” QBs in the league, mostly because the rules are set up for them to succeed. You can’t hit them anymore and DBs get called for PI  on every other pass attempt. 

Lynn Dickey was a great pure passer. If he'd have played now (without having to worry about getting hammered on every pass attempt - including some hits where guys would take three steps after he released the ball and unload), he would have a been a perennial All-Pro.

I don't know how defenses are ever going to stop QBs the size of Big Ben or Cam Newton. You have to hit them really hard to get them to go down.

Yeah, Lynn Dickey played behind some awful offensive lines.  Things were different back then too as I don't think the Pack was into as many shorter passing routes.  They'd go more for the home run with Lofton, Jefferson, Epps, and while they did throw to the backs, I don't think they did it quite as much as some more pure West Coast offense teams did.  Dickey took some savage beatings in some of those games.  I swear I remember a game where he took like 10 sacks to the Jets with Gastineau/Klecko, etc. 

Edit:  I looked it up.  In December of '81, Jets beat Packers 28-3 and Dickey took 9 sacks.  Yikes!!! 

fightphoe93 posted:

Yeah, Lynn Dickey played behind some awful offensive lines.  Things were different back then too as I don't think the Pack was into as many shorter passing routes.  They'd go more for the home run with Lofton, Jefferson, Epps, and while they did throw to the backs, I don't think they did it quite as much as some more pure West Coast offense teams did.  Dickey took some savage beatings in some of those games.  I swear I remember a game where he took like 10 sacks to the Jets with Gastineau/Klecko, etc. 

Edit:  I looked it up.  In December of '81, Jets beat Packers 28-3 and Dickey took 9 sacks.  Yikes!!! 

And that was after he missed almost two full years because he broke his leg in 1977. When you talk about guys that were tough mentally, he probably doesn't get enough credit (for not being completely in a fetal position every time there was pressure after the bad leg injury he had).

It wasn't just the sacks, it was the 5-6 poundings a game those guys took on what would now be late hits.

I like Mahomes but will put my money on Mayfield. 

Guy has simply won on just about every level and despite not having all the prototypical physical skills and attributes he continues to get over.  His leadership skills to me are top notch and I think he’s a much better athlete than he gets credit for. 

Should be fun to watch them develop 

Maybe the biggest benefit the QB's now have is the lack of fear.  They don't have to worry anymore about getting destroyed by a defender coming in at full speed and levelling him from almost any angle.

Best athlete on the team used to play halfback, or fullback if you go back further, in my days.

Anyone predicting HoF for a guy 4 games into his second season should beware of Jaworski syndrome.  He is the one that claimed Kaepernick (while he was hot)  could go down as the best to ever play the position.  Ever.  Mahomes has shown more so far but let's see how he weathers game plans designed to stop him and Reid's latest O.  Or losing a few starters to injuries.  His next step is facing a real D which just so happens to be this weekend vs. JAX.

Mahomes is going to learn about Andy and the playoff game clock firsthand. Mahomes is good. But nobody is good enough to push Andy past the playoff game clock. 

Defensive coordinators have no film yet. Let's see how things go the next couple years before they are anointed.

I'm glad somebody finally said it.

DH13 posted:

Maybe the biggest benefit the QB's now have is the lack of fear.  They don't have to worry anymore about getting destroyed by a defender coming in at full speed and levelling him from almost any angle.

Best athlete on the team used to play halfback, or fullback if you go back further, in my days.

Anyone predicting HoF for a guy 4 games into his second season should beware of Jaworski syndrome.  He is the one that claimed Kaepernick (while he was hot)  could go down as the best to ever play the position.  Ever.  Mahomes has shown more so far but let's see how he weathers game plans designed to stop him and Reid's latest O.  Or losing a few starters to injuries.  His next step is facing a real D which just so happens to be this weekend vs. JAX.

I agree and it may have sounded like I was predicting HOF.  I basically meant, 16 TDs in 4 games is playing at HOF level but obviously 4 great games doesn't get you in the Hall.  Looks like a great player though, and so do some others on that team like Hunt, Hill, and Kelce.

Didn't mean to point at you, just the chorus of slobbering.

Guess he passed that test!

For Andy and Co., we've seen his teams bust out of the gate before like an asteroid only to see them come down to earth by playoff time.  Will be interesting to see what happens with this year's edition.