McGinn Hammers Pack--"Getting left behind by elite"

"It's hard not to be bullish on the Packers at the midpoint of the season. Playing by far the meat of their schedule, they've gone 5-2 despite another unending succession of injuries. With Rodgers, they figure to go 14-2, 13-3 or 12-4."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...791z1-230373561.html

 

Yup. In early November, according to McGinn, this team is between 12-4 and 14-2. Now we're being left behind.

 

LOL. Riiight.

Yeah, I think this is just about the harshest comments I have ever read from Bob.  And cant say I blame him either or disagree with him. 

  

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Wait a minute the Packers made the playoffs and played the 9er's tuff. The packers are not falling apart, they simply had a bad year for them.

I can see the Packers being a really good team next year. They should have a great O-Line with some really good Running backs.

Give the packers a least one more decent safety and a fast middle linebacker the defense can be a lot better. Minnesota is not likely going to bring in a rookie QB and be world betters.

Good God man the clock is not being reset to the 70's.

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Agreed. I don't think we were the 13 or 14 win team McGinn made us out to be in November, but we certainly aren't falling behind the big dogs, either.

 

I give this team a lot of credit. In 2010 they won it all with a crap ton of injuries. This year, they had as many, if not more injuries, and in places that we just couldn't recover from. But this team fought to the end.

 

If we solidify our offensive line, Aaron is protected, and not getting hurt. And our running game becomes that much more effective. 

 

If we improve our defensive talent up the middle of the field at linebacker and safety, those holes are closing up, and our pass rush is more effective. 

Get Clay healthy. See if we can't keep Raji here, and happy, by utilizing his talents correctly. For the love of God, keep Datone Jones, Jerel Worthy and Nick Perry healthy, and this defense is on the upswing again.

 

I know a lot of you guys are down on Perry. I don't know if I feel that way. When he's on the right side of the field, man, can he get after the quarterback. I like his upside. I really do.

I look at the current state of the defense and the one playoff win since the SB run and can't really make the case they're keeping pace. Hard to really disagree with Bob's assessment of the state of the team as it presently stands.

Based solely on the game results, I'd have a hard time disagreeing with you, MJ. But I think our final record does not accurately indicate the level of talent on this team. 

 

For an 8-7-1 team, we sure played the 12-4 Niners tough.

Here did they put the "Played the Niners Tough" trophy?

       
       
Right next to the players with upside and potential trophies

Good article by Bob. His points about FA were to the point.

This article was written in a vacuum, he never considered the salary cap. Parsing New Orleans for sign free agents ignores what will happen to the team this offseason. The Saints are done the last years of Brees carrier will be wasted. Seattle will have a difficult offseason and a terrible cap problems next year. SF will have some cap problems this year, if their QB wants to get paid this year then they too will be in cap hell.

You can not just say the Packers should sign a bunch of free agents and not consider the finical ramification, not can you cherry pick Free Agent signing success story without noting the teams that have failed using that approach.

"Let's be clear about something else. The NFC North championship was more about the Detroit Lions pulling a colossal fold than the Green Bay Packers doing anything wonderful."

"They have no pro department up there," an executive in personnel said. "Ted does some good things in drafting but they don't do (expletive) in personnel.

"Ted has shut it down lately. They've gone stone cold. They have not been utilizing all the markets. Now it's caught up to him."

"If Thompson trusts himself, pro personnel director Eliot Wolf and others in the building, he'll resume activity in free agency and seek bargain-priced or market-priced veterans to augment the draft."

 

I don't think TT should be irresponsible in FA, but a good veteran or two would help, IMO, especially at LB or Safety.

spot on rainboris

Ted's draft picks on defense have had little impact the last few years. He also passed on vet FA that would have helped the Safety and QB positions. To think MD Jennings or Jerron McMillen were the answer was short-sighted. 

 

Does Ted miss John Dorsey, John Schnieder, and Reggie McKenzie ? Time will tell how much. 

This was one of the few things in that hit piece that I agreed with.

 

In this age of parity, the Packers aren't nearly as far away from the "elite" as McGinn would have us believe. If TT can add a legit safety, and upgrade the LB corps, particularly at the inside positions, this defense goes from a liability to somewhere in the middle of the pack, which is more than good enough when paired with our QB and newfound running game.

Gosh, or do you think maybe it's Perry or Whitt maybe don't have the ability to develop players? We'd hear it all from the bed-wetters about Campen or Slocum

 

 

McGinn is too much like Skip Bayless. Often times its what's contrary. Even if it impeaches points they made earlier.

 

That said. The talent level on the defensive side of the ball is in need of some work. Even after it was emphasized through the draft. Some draft picks are going fail. So the GM has to augment it with a free agent signing at weak positions. You can't keep running the likes of Jerron Mcmillilan and Aaron Rouse out there because you drafted them. Having full knowledge that they can't play.

 

 

I have been hammering Capers--but I disagree that the Packers are left behind---The Panthers looked absolutely pathetic in the second half today---the Packers are a better team than the Chargers....The Pats have had their difficulties this year.

The Seahawks beat us one year ago on a bad call and have a freaky home field--although I heard the 12th man booing the neon lime greenies yesterday for a minute---The Niners have the best talent...and barely escaped with a win from Lambeau----Could the Packers beat the Broncos on a neutral 'cold' field?.....maybe not--

There will be some changes---but the Packers remain part of the elite

I still say early on their interior run d was playing at a very high level. We saw it in preseason and into the regular season schedule. Once the injuries start, there are only so many "next men up". It wears on the entire unit, and as residual effects your offense and special teams. I don't believe this defense is THAT far away from being servicable enough to compete for a title.

If the O can hold the ball for 40 minutes like they did against Minnesohhhhhhhta, the D can be a lot better.

While I certainly don't see the Packers falling apart, I do see us drifting back from the so-called elite teams. I don't agree with others on this board who feel we will be legitimate Super Bowl contenders next year. I see us in that second tier of teams.

 

I think McCarthy does a good job with what he has, but we just don't have the horses to make a serious SB run. And if we did have them, they'd just end up getting injured. Good grief! What can we do to keep getting decimated by injuries? (and don't say stretching.) I know it's a problem around the league, but we've been hit especially hard in 3 out of the last 4 years. 

 

I have faith in McCarthy, but he needs more talent to complement Rodgers. It looks like Lacy will be a playmaker, but we need more on defense. Matthews can be neutralized by a doubleteam and/or he'll get injured at some point during the season.

 

I agree with McGuinn's assessment that Thompson needs to utilize more options beside the draft. He hasn't exactly been hitting the ball out of the park on his first drafts the last few years and the later draft rounds are a crap shoot if they'll be decent or not.

 

Hey that's great. Can you whip out your crystal ball & tell us who the 1st tier of teams is? & don't say the Pats/Broncs/9'ers/Hawks because it's quite obvious you can see who every team drafted plus FA moves for all 32 teams.

 

While you're at it, the Mega Millions numbers would be much appreciated too.

 

However I do agree, TT needs to utilize some more options besides the draft. Value-driven FA's can be had but I don't agree with breaking the bank for a FA (unless it's the 2nd coming of Reggie White)

There aren't any "elite" teams out there, as in the dynasties of years past like the Cowboys or 49'ers.  Instead, there are the teams with elite Qbs (Brady, P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, etc) that are in playoff contention almost every year, and other teams that in a given year have the right schedule/mix of players to make a run.

 

 We have a healthy Rodgers for 16 games, we are in playoff contention every year...and then its a matter of getting breaks/ making breaks (Hyde dropping int, for example) and a team being hot.

 

As for free agency, we don't have the cap room for the best free agents.  Perhaps there are some mid-level free agents, but then again the question for the mid level-is are how good are they on their own, was their performance the product of the system they played in vs their own talents?

 

 And,veteran free agents use up cap room that you need to sign your own best players in future years--for example, not only a Shields this year, but a Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb whose contracts will be up in 2015.

I think you have to throw Krapperdick into that discussion...he's gotten the 49er's into the NFC Championship the past 2 years...and the Whiners have been there the past 3 years...

 

ugh...I just threw up in my mouth reading what I had just typed...the caveat is that they had been drafting high for so many years that they should have a solid core of decent players....but, it's still tough to even get to a Championship game...

 

3 of their 4 LBs are Pro Bowlers, and the only reason it isn't 4/4 is that Aldin Smith flaked out. 2 are first rounders, 2 are 3rd rounders. I suspect we're going to see some early round LBs this year...

Rodgers just turned 30 last month. It is time for TT to compliment this young roster with a key FA or 2 on the defensive side

 

that is the only thing holding this team back right now(and injuries, of course). They must dramatically improve this D if they are going to seriously make a run. Can't entirely fix it with one draft and expect 6th rd rookies or UDFA to just step in and contribute immediately.

 

Safety and LB. Draft one, sign a vet FA at the other. Maybe even add another DLineman in FA as well

Had Cobb gotten into endzone after the pass from Rodgers with 6+ minutes left to play vs the 49ers or if Hyde makes that INT, the Packers end up winning last week and then going to Carolina.  At which point, the Packers could have and most likely would have beaten the Panthers today.

 

I agree with McGinn though, the Packers could be falling behind if they don't change something.  Sure injuries racked up an awful lot of downtime.  But they still should have been able to beat the Vikes and Steelers at Lambeau.

 

What helped SF beat the Packers is their ability to make and not miss tackles.  Just like the Cobb catch.  The SF db tackled him by the shoelaces and saved a TD and may have won the game for his team. 

 

In that game and today's game, SF was solid on their tackling.  That comes from coaching.  Capers may be good but somewhere along the line somebody is missing the message.  Fundamental tackling is key and the Packers were fundamentally flawed there again.

GBP1:

Had Cobb gotten into endzone after the pass from Rodgers with 6+ minutes left to play vs the 49ers or if Hyde makes that INT, the Packers end up winning last week and then going to Carolina.

How are you certain the 49'er offense could not have responded with a TD following either scenario?

As difficult as it is  to admit, the Packers have fallen behind. Their defense has not been Championship level for 3 full seasons.

But I don't think this means the Packers can't get back in the conversation. Several of The key investments (I.e., early round picks since the Super Bowl) over the last 3 years- Sherrod, Perry, Worthy, Hayward, Jones- have yet to solidly the positions they were brought in to solidify. If these guys start giving return on investment, they're back up there amongst the elite. Hit another Cobb or Lacy in this years draft (but for defense), we're definitely in business.

Running games were big factors in all of the playoffs games.  And the defenses were the other big factors.  While all QBs were extremely important, their contributions in the passing game weren't at the same levels we saw in the regular season.

 

And "yes", I believe the Packers would have held the 49ers had they earned a 4 point lead with 5 minutes to go.

How?  onside kick?

I guess every playoff team that lost is falling behind then.

The Pack were a couple bounces from advancing.  Leave the sky is falling to the chickens of the world. 

While I understand the point that teams like Seattle or San Fran who don't have huge $$ tied up in QB (yet) have some more flexibility to sign FA's, I think this oversimplifies it a bit. The reality is there are some decent bargains out there in FA.

 

Look at the Seattle d-line…they got 16.5 combined sacks and 6 forced fumbles from Bennett and Avril. I believe Bennett signed a one year $5 million deal; Avril two years $15 million. That's pretty good production right there at a reasonable cost.

 

We talk about how TT doesn't like to overpay, but in fact, he does overpay -- he just does it for his own guys. Even offering Raji $8 million a year is obscene…would you rather have that guy or Michael Bennett + $3 million? Or extending Jones for $12 million. Or Burnett. Even Finley was given more money than he probably deserved based on his production. 

 

It's just odd how recently TT's willing to overspend on Packer FAs but seemingly won't consider some of these outsiders who have bargain basement prices.

 

The frustrating thing is that most of these guys have had their development stalled due to season ending injuries. Bulaga has had the same issue. Get these guys on the field, keep them on the field and the team will see improvement

 

While this team has fallen behind Sea and SF....they aren't far off from being on their level. Both Sea and SF won't have the luxury of paying their star QB's pennies for much longer either. They'll have to pony up for them and that'll affect things. GB has already gotten their QB's big contract out of the way, so now it's time to build around that the best they can

 

This offense is a juggernaut, plain and simple. Rodgers at QB, a RB like Lacy in the backfield, the weapons at WR. OL could stand some improvement, which they showed this past year. Get Bulaga back in there + Sherrod as the swing Tackle and they have something there. Offense is championship caliber and one of the more dangerous ones in the league

 

It's just retooling the D. Already said that they likely need to bring in a FA or 2 on that end, either at Safety or ILB, then hit on whatever other position they pick in the draft

 

AFter that it goes back to the current crop of young talent they have drafted over the years. Gotta keep them healthy and gotta hope for some improvement. Datone, Hayward, Worthy, Perry....need to see some of them take their play to the next level. Perry was showing flashes of it once they moved him to ROLB, then he broke his foot and was never the same

       
       

I think that the disappointment of blowing it in a 15-1 season combined with back-to-back losses to the same team in the following two playoffs is more germane to the discussion (2 of 3 at home).