McGinn rips Ted Thompson on in-season adjustments

McGinn hints at Murphy potentially getting aggressive with shake ups should gb lose. That would be shocking.

Here's the part on MM and TT relationship (from the link above).

It's no secret that members of the Packers' personnel department have griped for years that their boss is almost never willing to make a move. For years, scouts across the league have told me that.

Now comes word that McCarthy's level of frustration has intensified because Thompson is so set in his ways and refuses to take a chance.

MP2 - why did you add the " "  ?  There are no quotes in the article to support McGinn's comments. Which, is typical for McGinn.

Hungry- sorry - the quotes were meant to indicate what McGinn wrote in the article (to separate it from what I wrote to introduce it). 

Use the Blockquote feature. It's under Formats, Blocks...

Hungry5 posted:

Use the Blockquote feature. It's under Formats, Blocks...

Thanks. I wasn't aware of that feature. 

Orlando Wolf posted:

McGinn hints at Murphy potentially getting aggressive with shake ups should gb lose. That would be shocking.

 

I didn't read the sentence about Murphy that way.  And they just gave TT an extension - he's not going to get the boot.

Typical McGinn click-bait IMO. I used to like Bob's work because he would get some great quotes from scouts/personnel guys around the league. Now he just stirs chit for the sake of stirring it seems.

50k Club posted:

Orlando Wolf posted:

McGinn hints at Murphy potentially getting aggressive with shake ups should gb lose. That would be shocking.

 

I didn't read the sentence about Murphy that way.  And they just gave TT an extension - he's not going to get the boot.

How did you interpret that?

wasn't aware of this feature either. kewl.

McGinn spouting his usual load of **** this time of year.

Bobby McGinn has grown less insightful about the Packers as the years go by.  He is now, as pointed out by Hungary5, nothing but clickbait for JSO.  I would doubt he will even be around next year as the JSO/Press Gazette merger is completed.

But, a couple of examples of how Bob is oft wrong when evaluating the Packers. Below are excerpts of Bob's own opinion, and not his fallback of  "a NFL personnel guy/scout told me."  First, let's stroll back a short two years ago, when McGinn proclaimed if ARod went down, the Packers could easily continue to win without him. (ironically, the day before ARod broke his collarbone)

"I heard it again last week, from one of the sagest individuals in the state press corps.

It's a simple yet pervasive line of thinking in the event that quarterback Aaron Rodgers should suffer an injury sidelining him for most if not all of the season.

We've seen Mike McCarthy, Ted Thompson, their staffs and the players overcome more injuries in the last four seasons than any National Football League team. Time and time again they've lost key players only to plug in well-prepared backups and keep on winning.

They've never had to make do without possibly the finest player in the league. Losing Rodgers to major injury would be the nightmare of all nightmares. He makes everyone's job easier.

Yet, no organization would be better equipped to handle it than Green Bay.

......the guess here is that even if the Packers were to lose Rodgers early Monday night against the Chicago Bears they'd find ways to finish 11-5."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...791z1-230373561.html

He couldn't have been more wrong---they finished 8-7-1 and played terribly.  But note two years ago, as the bolded part above shows, Bobby was singing the praises of TT and MM for "plug and play" backups, who even then were not the street free agents he now contends we so desperately need.

And here's McGinn from August with his personal eval of the TT 2015 roster:

"As the Super Bowl favorite, the Packers are rife with talent, devoid of major injury and not sweating much of anything 3½ weeks before the season opener

............

There are no voids in the 10th season together for general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...686z1-322125701.html

One could go on and on (after the Super Bowl proclaiming the Packers to be a dynasty, for example) showing how Bob is giddy when times are good, but piles on like a grumpy old man when they aren't.  He is the "Skip Bayless" of Packer coverage---bold proclaimations for clicks.

Anyone that watches Packer games closely and listens to the smart people on this site don't need Bob. Or ESPN. Or PFT. Or anything else. Trust what you see every Sunday. That's all the analysis you really need. The good people of this site will fill in the blanks. 

I almost want to read the article. but I won't support click bait for Big Bad Bob.

As usual I forgot to click the link.

Sorry Bob...

What would jsonline do if I decided to start using ads to generate revenue here on x4?

Is it fundraiser time Boris?

My point was, jsonline needs clicks to generate revenue. If I started doing that, it would take revenue away from jsonline.

Boris posted:

My point was, jsonline needs clicks to generate revenue. If I started doing that, it would take revenue away from jsonline.

Go for it!

Shut up you racist ****. 

excalibur posted:

Boris posted:

My point was, jsonline needs clicks to generate revenue. If I started doing that, it would take revenue away from jsonline.

Go for it!

Clickthroughs from African Americans only count as 3/5th of a click, right? 

The irony is had Jordy not gone down in a heap and if this offense was humming as it usually does, than Bad Bob would write a piece about how steadfast, true to his word, and brave TT is for sticking with his roster and believing in the team he's assembled.

McGinn's been pissed at TT's style and his muted approach to the media since TT arrived. It's on a the rare occasion and "down season" where McGinn can chirp about it. 

Every post season Big Bad Bob has a contrarian opinion.  Most of this is based on his enlightened observations, often based on unrecognized sources who give him just eloquent information.

Add in season and preseason.  FU BBB.  

Patty nods her head in approval. 

TT's unwillingness to venture much outside of his comfort zone of the draft is a relatively common criticism and don't see anything really controversial there. If you're going to build almost exclusively through the draft you need to do it very well and TT's record has been mixed. TE has to be very high on the list of needs and TT just spent a third rounder on the position. That's a miss by any objective measure.

Bob has basically written this same article 2 or three times a year since Ted became GM.

Only interesting things are the reference to McCarthy frustration (with no explication) and the dare to Mark Murphy and the ExCom. As neither are fleshed out, bleh.

I hear the "Ted Neglected Tight End" argument all the time.  Is the problem he should have drafted one of the other guys earlier that year?  He should have drafted Maxx Williams this year?  But he also didn't fill the Middle Linebacker position with a first round pick?  We also don't have enough linemen, should have used a couple 2nds there.  

You draft at the end of the first round every year, makes it hard to fill out your roster with first round picks.

Now, did he miss on some of the picks he did make?  Certainly, but that is different than simply not paying attention to a position.  

I do like the way other teams "churned the roster" making those five final spots on the 53 something of a revolving door. Wolf used to do that, and we sure could've used Freeney this year. Davis the TE, maybe. TT doesn't do that, and that's a mistake. If they didn't want to put Janis on the field as a deep threat, find someone else....

Most Fans could have written that article. You wonder why TT even has a personel department. The do their job and and at the end of the day their work is dismissed by Ted. Draft and develop is fine but sometimes veteran players can make a bigger difference. Hungry rookies with limited talent dont have an impact.  At least veteran plays who can play a little bit can keep holes from becoming craters. 

I doubt there is a rift between MM and TT. MM knew what he was signing up for when he became head coach. 

You add Grant, Green AND Walden to this team and the problems still remain. This team lacked playmakers at WR and consistency at OL.  Well guess what, playmaking WRs are few and far between in this league and are certainly not found on the street unless they have serious character issues or well pass their prime (I think Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocinco are still looking for a job.....).  And has anyone seen the OL play in the league this year?  Just horrendous.  I probably read a dozen articles about the poor OL play in the NFL.   There are 160 starting OL spots in the league and I doubt there are 120 above average players.  You don't find Grey Ruegamer's on the street during the season.  

What killed this team was a combination of Jordy, Quarless, Bakhtiari and Montgomery getting hurt, Adams and Linsley taking a HUGE step back this year, and Bulaga playing like a bottom 5 RT instead of top 5.  I honestly don't know what TT could have done to fix this other than bring in more free agents.  Problem with that: who do you take off this team to make room for said free agents?  And I'll give it to TT, I was against the Montgomery pick b/c I thought we were set at WR; I was very wrong - maybe TT knows what he's doing after all.  

Thompson has earned the criticism along with the accolades. He's not super-human, as some posters try to portray him, he has his weaknesses, which includes in-season and free agent dabbling. I haven't seen anyone advocate going wild, but a few prudent moves would likely make a solid difference.

McGinn lays out a number of examples of prudent, "cheap" deals that have helped other teams involving players at important positions in Green Bay that Thompson has ignored.

Montgomery was averaging 3 catches and 27 yards in the 5 games he played. I'm not saying he wasn't missed, but let's not go overboard on his importance to the offense.

Yes, things began to go bad after Montgomery got hurt, but I think that was more of a coincidence than anything. Things started to go bad after the Denver game, when every team in the league saw the blueprint on how to defend the Packers' offense.

Oh, and Vernon Davis has been benched by the Broncos and the fans have completely turned on him.  By all accounts, every Broncos media member and fan considers that a failed trade.  A good gamble, but failed nonetheless.  

I don't know, it gets annoying that whenever the Packers don't win the Super Bowl it's TT and MM's fault and they should be fired.  Part of our fan base has become like a bunch trust fund kids, expecting Super Bowl every single year and when it doesn't happen, expect the entire front office, the coaching staff and half the team fired.  Talk to fans from any franchise not named the Patriots, Broncos, Steelers and Ravens about down times.  We haven't had extended periods of losing in over 25 years.  Only the Patriots have won more than us in that time.  

In theory, each team should one win a Super bowl every 32 years.  If you remove the truly inept franchises, it's about 1 every 25 years.  Well we have 2 in the last 20 years, so we're not doing that bad.  Let's not burn down 1265 Lombardi Ave quite yet......

Rant over.

Herschel posted:

McGinn lays out a number of examples of prudent, "cheap" deals that have helped other teams involving players at important positions in Green Bay that Thompson has ignored.

But the fact that TT has done this deals in the past makes me think he's not ignoring them - he just didn't think they'd help this team.  Do we really think TT just sits there paying darts in his office during the season?  Maybe that dude the Patriots got would have helped, who knows.  Maybe Vernon Davis, I don't know.  But McGinn ignores the significant number of mid-season trades that have failed.  How about bringing those up.  We know TT values draft picks so he's not throwing them around and crossing his fingers.  

IMO, MM deserves plenty of criticism for this year, as do a number of assistant coaches and players.  The offense was a complete failure.  But  don't see mid-season moves as a potential fix for what happened.  Just not buying it.  

Orlando Wolf posted:

50k Club posted:

Orlando Wolf posted:

McGinn hints at Murphy potentially getting aggressive with shake ups should gb lose. That would be shocking.

 

I didn't read the sentence about Murphy that way.  And they just gave TT an extension - he's not going to get the boot.

How did you interpret that?

I'm sure Murphy and the executive committee evaluate the entire program every year.  It's more of an open challenge to Murphy, similar to what cuqui posted.

Last post here: Does James Jones not count as a midseason acquisition?  TT saw a hole at WR and filled it with Jones after last cuts, so I qualify that as an in-season acquisition.  And based on history, JJ is about as good as a mid-season addition as you'll get: a solid role player.  

There is plenty of evidence that contradicts McGinn's article.  But typical media, only focus on evidence that supports the narrative.......

TT's philosophy is that he'd rather risk losing a game or two in the short term by using his own UDFA and 6th and 7th round draft picks and getting them experience so that in the long term they find some hidden gems. 

Sometimes this works unbelievably well. Sam Shields is the best example. Within a year (actually by the playoffs in his first year) he was playing at the level of a 1st round pick. They got 3-4 years of a 10 million/year player at an UDFA salary. They could have signed a Will Blackmon type retread (like the Redskins this year) and plugged him in and maybe won a game or two more that year but never found out that Shields was going to be a star. There are many examples of this - Starks was a 6th rounder key to the 2010 run. Tramon Williams was an UDFA that became a Pro Bowler. That's why TT does what he does. 

This year (and recently) the process has failed miserably so far on many levels. Backman, Perillo, Bostick recently, etc. have all failed to develop into competent NFL TEs. Janis, Myles White, Boykin, and Abbrederis have, for whatever reason, not developed into solid contributing WRs. None of their middle round ILBs or UDFAs have been the answer there (Bradford, Ryan, etc.). An Owen Daniels type at TE or an equivalent type at ILB might have won them another game or two this year, but would have prevented the next "Sam Shields/Tramon" type from emerging. 

The result of this philosophy is often some early lumps and losses to allow for long term gain. That means the Packers go 10-6 and play on the road instead of 12-4 and get a bye. In 2010, they had to win games at Philly, at Atlanta, and at Chicago to get to the Super Bowl. In those games, Tramon Williams made arguably two of the biggest plays against Philly (the end zone interception to seal it) and Atlanta (a pick 6 at the end of the first half) while a Sam Shields interception sealed the Chicago win. Starks was great in that run. A Will Blackmon type probably doesn't make those plays. 

When the "process" doesn't work (at least yet), you end up with the TE and WR situation that is there this year. And the WR position has more than enough draft picks invested in it, it's just they are missing Nelson and Montgomery; Adams has flat out sucked; and Janis and Abbrederis haven't developed for whatever reason.  RichRod is what he is - a decent 2nd TE, but the lack of a top flight TE is where the process completely failed on offense. The lack of a decent ILB has been the equivalent on defense. It has forced a move of CM3 to ILB. CM3 is a HOF OLB and an above average ILB. Put a decent player at ILB and CM3 back to OLB and you have a much better defense. 

So, maybe today is the day that Abbrederis or Backman/Perillo emerge and "get it" and turn into major contributors - like James Starks in 2010. That's what an optimist is looking for today. 

CUPackFan posted:

Herschel posted:

McGinn lays out a number of examples of prudent, "cheap" deals that have helped other teams involving players at important positions in Green Bay that Thompson has ignored.

But the fact that TT has done this deals in the past makes me think he's not ignoring them - he just didn't think they'd help this team.  Do we really think TT just sits there paying darts in his office during the season?  Maybe that dude the Patriots got would have helped, who knows.  Maybe Vernon Davis, I don't know.  But McGinn ignores the significant number of mid-season trades that have failed.  How about bringing those up.  We know TT values draft picks so he's not throwing them around and crossing his fingers.  

IMO, MM deserves plenty of criticism for this year, as do a number of assistant coaches and players.  The offense was a complete failure.  But  don't see mid-season moves as a potential fix for what happened.  Just not buying it.  

You obviously didn't read the article when McGinn pointed out a couple that aren't having great effect but pointing out they were low-risk/low-cost deals.

MichiganPacker2 posted:

...An Owen Daniels type at TE or an equivalent type at ILB might have won them another game or two this year, but would have prevented the next "Sam Shields/Tramon" type from emerging. 

This is where your argument falls apart,

Tramon/Shields were not draft picks. Giving up a low-round pick for a contributor at a different position would have made NO difference. The difference of a couple of games is big when you're in the playoffs where the margin between winning/losing is extremely thin.

Sorry, cuqui, but...when did "now comes word" become not good enough?

El-Ka-Smartypants posted:

I hear the "Ted Neglected Tight End" argument all the time.  Is the problem he should have drafted one of the other guys earlier that year?  He should have drafted Maxx Williams this year?  But he also didn't fill the Middle Linebacker position with a first round pick?  We also don't have enough linemen, should have used a couple 2nds there.  

You draft at the end of the first round every year, makes it hard to fill out your roster with first round picks.

Now, did he miss on some of the picks he did make?  Certainly, but that is different than simply not paying attention to a position.  

Free Agency is an option.  Trade is an option.

Thats the main criticism.  He only uses draft when a FA here or there as a stop gap could have gone a long way throughout the years.