MM has rolled the greyhound over Clements so many times it's become uncomfortable. 

The fact Clements hasn't  packed up the remnants of his dignity and beat a path out of GB says everything about what a bad decision it was to entrust him with the level of responsibility he was given. 

You have a way with words, Chilli. LOL!

The lesser of two evils.

Will Mike go for two?

ChilliJon posted:

MM has rolled the greyhound over Clements so many times it's become uncomfortable. 

The fact Clements hasn't  packed up the remnants of his dignity and beat a path out of GB says everything about what a bad decision it was to entrust him with the level of responsibility he was given. 

It also speaks volumes that (at least to our knowledge) no other team in the NFL is clamoring to take Clements from GB either. I understand MM has shut down other lateral moves for coaches to go elsewhere, but it doesn't seem like any team was wanting to take Clements out of this embarrassment and allow him to save face somewhere else. 

We should also remember the reason MM focused on the D and ST's was their mass suckage at the most inopportune times. The ridiculousness of the Pistol offense with Kaperdick in the playoffs where Capers had NO answers and the gaffes of all gaffes on ST's in the NFCC game was what led him to take his eye off the ball on play calling.

Now the question is whether ST's and D can hold their own with MM back and focused on the offense.

PS: Speaking of Clements, um what's the point of having him around again?

I believe the last team to make a play for Clements was CHI. McCarthy should have let him walk.

Clements did pretty well early on in the season last year.   There were many of us who were praising the move to give him the play-calling duties.  After that sixth game, many things began to erode.   Not only did the play-calling turn out to be suspect, there were other issues plaguing the offense and the team.  ie., Lacy's weight gain and curfew violations, dropped passes, stupid penalties, inability to adapt schemes and poor use of personnel.   IMO, that falls squarely at the feet of MM.  If MM wants to reclaim play-calling duties, great!  I hope it works and for his sake, it better work.  But he then must also fix all the other troubles that befell the Packers in 2015.

Sandwich

Something I don't think has been discussed is how big the emphasis was 2 years ago for Rodgers to get rid of the ball ASAP. There were literally snaps that appeared to be throwing as soon as it touched his hand. Game announcers made a big deal out of it all year long.
Now, for all the "getting back to fundamentals" and other changes, and MM taking back play-calling, haven't heard a peep about trying to return to this M.O.
As I recall, we had moderate-to-good success with it, especially in goal-to-go situations.
Thoughts?

It was difficult for him to get rid of the ball quickly last season because after the 6th game it seemed like everyone was playing press coverage & taking away AR's first look. OFTEN he had to pull the ball down & rescan the field because no one was open. 

Clements by now should be wearing a paper bag over his head. Jeez, just to save face you think he'd get out of town. I don't understand MM continuing to put the bus in forward-reverse forward-reverse over Clements either.

Clements is being paid a lot of money, probably twice what he would've received from another team had he left after last season. Dignity has a price.

ChilliJon posted:

MM has rolled the greyhound over Clements so many times it's become uncomfortable. 

Oh? I don't know.....I'm kinda comfy in my plush seat on that bus. 

Yeah he's getting paid handsomely for probably fewer responsibilities. I'm sure a chunk of his responsibilities shifted to Bennett when he became OC. I don't feel bad for him, he's in a comfy situation in GB. He gets to work with QBs, but he's not the QB coach. He works with the offense, but he's not the OC or the playcaller. It seems like he's the equivalent of what Doug Pederson was in GB while backing up Favre...he's here because the main guy (McCarthy) likes him and he gets to do the things he enjoys doing without any pressure. 

I have a hard time believing this dialogue. I mean, Mike McCarthy is paid a lot to run the football part of this organization. I find it kinda hard to believe he'd keep dead weight on his staff- what quality manager does this? In this business? I don't think so...

Clements and Moss might be really good in the film room?

I mean, a few years ago it was Campen. Before 2014 it was Capers. 

 I just think fans get wrapped up in crusades to kill off a coach, and i don't think anyone can really know enough to be right... and I prefer to think McCarthy is smart enough not to employ an idiot. Ok, so Clements doesn't have the same abilities to call the game as McCarthy. So be it. It isn't an indictment of anything other than Clements as a play caller. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with Clements other than he's a poor play caller, which was also true when he ran a poor offense in Buffalo. I think he has value on the staff, McCarthy wouldn't keep him on if he was just a waste of money. The point stands though, he has a really nice situation on this team. A better situation than most other coaches get. 

Fandame posted:

Clements by now should be wearing a paper bag over his head. Jeez, just to save face you think he'd get out of town. I don't understand MM continuing to put the bus in forward-reverse forward-reverse over Clements either.

Sending a message

Grave Digger posted:

I don't think there is anything wrong with Clements other than he's a poor play caller, 

And there is nothing wrong with Capers other than his poor defenses

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Grave Digger posted:

I don't think there is anything wrong with Clements other than he's a poor play caller, 

And there is nothing wrong with Capers other than his poor defenses

His defense did win a superb owl...

As God is my witness, Tom Clements will never call plays again!

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/...nse-in-2015-46655877

Music City posted:

I mean, a few years ago it was Campen. Before 2014 it was Capers. 

 I just think fans get wrapped up in crusades to kill off a coach, and i don't think anyone can really know enough to be right... and I prefer to think McCarthy is smart enough not to employ an idiot. Ok, so Clements doesn't have the same abilities to call the game as McCarthy. So be it. It isn't an indictment of anything other than Clements as a play caller. 

I think you're confused.  Capers and Campen still are an issue and now that Clements is an issue MM has to take his eye off the defense again.  I'm sure Clements is just like a Philbin "OC/quality control" guy who has super duper planning skills in the ****ing film room.  

MM has a crony problem and I sure as hell hope it doesn't get in the way of young risers not getting their shot.

Capers is like that girlfriend who would do anything at first, but as time went on you realized she had to many holes and patches and probably needs to be replaced with a new one.

Henry posted:

I think you're confused.  Capers and Campen still are an issue and now that Clements is an issue MM has to take his eye off the defense again.  I'm sure Clements is just like a Philbin "OC/quality control" guy who has super duper planning skills in the ****ing film room.  

MM has a crony problem and I sure as hell hope it doesn't get in the way of young risers not getting their shot.

Why is it a bad thing that Clements is good in the film room and good at game planning, but isn't a quality in-game coach? It was an issue last year when he was in charge and the offense failed, but if he's not in charge then I think it's very valuable to have another set of eyes on the film and on the game plan. It's not like there's a coach's salary cap, so what's the big deal if Clements is basically just a glorified consultant?  

Cavetoad posted:

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Grave Digger posted:

I don't think there is anything wrong with Clements other than he's a poor play caller, 

And there is nothing wrong with Capers other than his poor defenses

His defense did win a superb owl...

And utterly fell apart at crucial times in pursuit of others...

Music City posted:

I mean, a few years ago it was Campen. Before 2014 it was Capers. 

 I just think fans get wrapped up in crusades to kill off a coach, and i don't think anyone can really know enough to be right... and I prefer to think McCarthy is smart enough not to employ an idiot. Ok, so Clements doesn't have the same abilities to call the game as McCarthy. So be it. It isn't an indictment of anything other than Clements as a play caller. 

Great post.

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Capers is like that girlfriend who would do anything at first, but as time went on you realized she had to many holes and patches and probably needs to be replaced with a new one.

I didn't replace her. Just supplemented her services with one of those new super duper, err, girlfriends.

Grave Digger posted:

Henry posted:

I think you're confused.  Capers and Campen still are an issue and now that Clements is an issue MM has to take his eye off the defense again.  I'm sure Clements is just like a Philbin "OC/quality control" guy who has super duper planning skills in the ****ing film room.  

MM has a crony problem and I sure as hell hope it doesn't get in the way of young risers not getting their shot.

Why is it a bad thing that Clements is good in the film room and good at game planning, but isn't a quality in-game coach? It was an issue last year when he was in charge and the offense failed, but if he's not in charge then I think it's very valuable to have another set of eyes on the film and on the game plan. It's not like there's a coach's salary cap, so what's the big deal if Clements is basically just a glorified consultant?  

Waste of taxpayer dollars....yeah,! That's the ticket!

FLPACKER posted:

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/...nse-in-2015-46655877

Nothing new, but pretty damning nonetheless when pro coaches confirm what fifty drunks on x4 saw: Simple isolation routes don't work when you don't have receivers flat-out beating defenders. Jones and Adams simply weren't that type of receiver. 

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Capers is like that girlfriend who would do anything at first, but as time went on you realized she had to many holes and patches and probably needs to be replaced with a new one.

Hole or patch?

I'm sure he'll get that fixed.

Henry posted:

Music City posted:

I mean, a few years ago it was Campen. Before 2014 it was Capers. 

 I just think fans get wrapped up in crusades to kill off a coach, and i don't think anyone can really know enough to be right... and I prefer to think McCarthy is smart enough not to employ an idiot. Ok, so Clements doesn't have the same abilities to call the game as McCarthy. So be it. It isn't an indictment of anything other than Clements as a play caller. 

I think you're confused.  Capers and Campen still are an issue and now that Clements is an issue MM has to take his eye off the defense again.  I'm sure Clements is just like a Philbin "OC/quality control" guy who has super duper planning skills in the ****ing film room.  

MM has a crony problem and I sure as hell hope it doesn't get in the way of young risers not getting their shot.

Agreed. 

But let's  hope  Crony Ted's fair haired boy works out swell.

At least he has good jeans.

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Capers is like that girlfriend who would do anything at first, but as time went on you realized she had to many holes and patches and probably needs to be replaced with a new one.

At this point...it is more important for me to prove I can exercise restraint ..and show respect for this forum...rather than tear into that one for massive sh*tz and giggles.

Don't worry, SDPF will try to explain the joke to you

Grave Digger posted:

Henry posted:

I think you're confused.  Capers and Campen still are an issue and now that Clements is an issue MM has to take his eye off the defense again.  I'm sure Clements is just like a Philbin "OC/quality control" guy who has super duper planning skills in the ****ing film room.  

MM has a crony problem and I sure as hell hope it doesn't get in the way of young risers not getting their shot.

Why is it a bad thing that Clements is good in the film room and good at game planning, but isn't a quality in-game coach? It was an issue last year when he was in charge and the offense failed, but if he's not in charge then I think it's very valuable to have another set of eyes on the film and on the game plan. It's not like there's a coach's salary cap, so what's the big deal if Clements is basically just a glorified consultant?  

You didn't highlight or obviously read the second paragraph.

I like wranglers.

Picture Eliot of more of a banana republic guy.