MM 3rd best HC in the NFL?

I'd put him no better than top 5 unless he wins another trophy.

Rex Ryan at #10 is a complete joke. East Coast Bias

Funny how many times Coughlin has been on the verge of being poop canned. He is the cat with nine lives in the coaching circles.

You could argue that perhaps Tomlin deserves number three ahead of MM, but MM did beat Tomlin in the SB. That has to count for something. Jim Harbaugh is too high. He had one great year. Let's see how he does over the course of a few seasons. Lovie is too low, and it's a crime that he's ranked below Rexy. Lovie got to a SB with Rex Freaking Grossman at QB - the guy couldn't even hold on to a snap from center. I think Lovie's pretty underrated.

I would give it to Dick LeBeau before Tomlin.

Yeah, Lovie's a darned good coach. Of course towards the end you have the new guys and just have to kind of toss them in an order but overall it's a fair list with Jim Harbaugh too high and Lovie too low.

MM's only average.

MM fell into TT's lap.

Tomlin at 4 is wildly overrated! The Super Bowl that Sucklisberger won was a serous fluke and Arizone could have eaily won that game!! I can't understand why Sean Peyton isn't 4th?
Pack88

Because Payton's not on the list as he won't be coaching this year.

Give Lovie Smith even a competent GM and he will win championships. Lovie's biggest problem is the one that McCarthy was suffering from until he wised up and hired Dom Capers, he hasn't taken care of the other side of the ball. They have dominant Special Teams and a stout, disciplined defense, but he keeps hiring duds on offense. One after the other.

MM is to football what Leo Hoeffmeyer is to D&D. 'Nuff said.

I agree about Lovie. He's a good coach.

Really can't put him that high until he offers a reasonable explanation for the puzzling onside kick against the Giants.

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Give Lovie Smith even a competent GM and he will win championships. Lovie's biggest problem is the one that McCarthy was suffering from until he wised up and hired Dom Capers, he hasn't taken care of the other side of the ball. They have dominant Special Teams and a stout, disciplined defense, but he keeps hiring duds on offense. One after the other.

Exactly. He gets caught up in flavor of the month crap. If he had a GM like Uncle Ted he would have had balancing opinion instead the blow your wad over the latest gimmick in Angelo.

What keeps Lovie from being a top notch coach is who he surrounds himself with. It's a freakin' turnstile. In a way he suffers from Shermy disease, can pick out some decent defensive coaches but offensively it's a merry go round.

At minimum he's going to end up as a Capers, Phillips or LeBeau in this league.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry: At minimum he's going to end up as a Capers, Phillips or LeBeau in this league.

IMO, he's already exceed those guys. A Super Bowl appearance, three division championships as well as longevity with one team. I do agree with his turn style approach as far as the offense goes however...

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:

What keeps Lovie from being a top notch coach is who he surrounds himself with.

Lovie made his name as a DC for the Rams (who killed the TOG -led Packers in the playoffs)

Then he added to his resume by continuing to beat the TOG-led Packers while he was in Chicago. Then a funny thing happened. The Packers changed QBs, Lovies' winning record vs the Packers was reversed and now he needs to reinvent himself because the MM/Rodgers-led Packers are kicking his asss multiple times/season...

I love it that Joe Philbin who has never head coached a game is ahead of Leslie Frazier.

I wonder where Coughlin rated after that choke job vs. the Eagles in 2010 that helped the Pack slip into the playoffs.

It's amazing how fast a guy's stock can go up or down. As Ted Thompson always says "This is a tough business."

Another Tedism, this ain't fantasy football.

quote:

Originally posted by who:
Yeah, Lovie is too far back. Hopefully they never get the offense figured out.

I could see Kubiak moving up this year.

I like MM. He seems so unfazed by things.

I feel the same way about Kubiak. This year's Texans run the ball like those Denver teams of the late '90s plus they're tough on D. Schaub staying healthy is their 1 big question mark.

quote:

Originally posted by ammo:
I love it that Joe Philbin who has never head coached a game is ahead of Leslie Frazier.

Saw that too.

Hard to argue Coughlin over MM considering his two SB rings and the fact that the Giants have ended the Packers season twice at Lambeau in the last few years...under MM's watch. But I'll still take MM over any coach in the league. He just seems to get it. His ego doesn't prevent him from working with Uncle Ted, and he seems to learn from his mistakes. He's also the best in the business at developing NFL QBs.

I'm too lazy to look up where I read it, but there was some interview where MM said that his home is in Green Bay and he plans on living there long after he's the coach of the GBP. That's Packer People.

If'n I was a betting man, I'd wager Rex Ryan will be gone during/after this season. And that GM too.

quote:

Originally posted by bdplant:
Hard to argue Coughlin over MM considering his two SB rings and the fact that the Giants have ended the Packers season twice at Lambeau in the last few years...under MM's watch. But I'll still take MM over any coach in the league. He just seems to get it. His ego doesn't prevent him from working with Uncle Ted, and he seems to learn from his mistakes. He's also the best in the business at developing NFL QBs.

I'm too lazy to look up where I read it, but there was some interview where MM said that his home is in Green Bay and he plans on living there long after he's the coach of the GBP. That's Packer People.

Can't disagree with taking MM over other coaches. He's not only a heck of a coach, but he's a good person as well. Great QB coach, willing to pass kudos out to others, wants other players/coaches to step up and be leaders, okay with taking a back seat to others (TT, AR), etc.

As to his continuing to live there long after he's coach of the GBP, well, if he were fired and went to say, Pittsburgh, I highly doubt he lives in GB. They all say that stuff, and I don't put much stock in that. OTOH, what he might mean is that after he coaches for another 20 years he'll hang it up and live in GB. That I might be more inclined to believe.

Sure, I can buy 3rd best, and I think rational arguments can be made for 2nd best, if not the very best.
In my mind, MM is a very good coach...but he has experienced some ups-and-downs; one year we see what could be called some brilliant offensive designs (5 WR sets, 2 FB/1 RB formation, etc.), and the next year it seems if they have been forgotten. Or the OL being up one year, and down the next; ditto for ST's and Defense. I'd just like to see a bit more year-to-year consistency.
The job that he did to hold an injury-decimated team together and win a SB two years ago really revealed his charachter as much as any other coaching trait. I'll take that in a HC every day of the week.
Lastly, I don't know that this point has been discussed at all:
Could MM have been the 'inovator' of this current trend of using big, strong, fast TE's? It seems to me that when certain teams saw what TGIF was doing to opposing defenses, they suddenly began drafting and developing TE's with similar, if not greater, skills and heighth to create the same mis-matches for their offense.

I agree Timmy--I think MM gets some credit for his offensive innovations. The NFL is a copycat league.

Here's how I have them ranked:

Tier 1
1. Bill Belichick
2. Mike McCarthy
3. Sean Payton
4. Mike Tomlin
5. John Harbaugh

Tier 2
6. Tom Coughlin
7. Mike Smith
8. Norv Turner
9. Andy Reid
10. Lovie Smith

These are guys that have done really good jobs, but just haven't gotten over the hump and won a Lombardi (other than Coughlin). Coughlin is the exception...he's a so so coach IMO who lucked into a ton of talent.

Tier 3
11. Rex Ryan
12. Gary Kubiak
13. Ken Whisenhunt
14. Marvin Lewis
15. Jeff Fisher

These are guys who will always do ENOUGH to keep their jobs, but I can't ever see winning it all.

Tier 4
16. Jason Garrett
17. Pete Carroll
18. Mike Shannahan
19. Romeo Crennel
20. John Fox
21. Jim Schwartz
22. Leslie Frazier
23. Chan Gailey

Some retreads, some over their heads, some just plain overrated. These guys will constantly have teams that excite one year and disappoint the next. Fox is a good coach IMO, he's only had 1 really good team though.

TBD
24. Jim Harbaugh
25. Mike Munchak
26. Ron Rivera
27. Pat Shurmur
28. Joe Philbin
29. Mike Mularky
30. Dennis Allen
31. Greg Schiano
32. Chuck Pagano

Harbaugh, Munchak and Rivera are looking like they're going to be quality coaches if they're all given a really fair chance. Out of this group, I expect in 3 years that Harbough and Philbin will climb to Tier 2.