Dan Compers is an outstanding football coach.
Originally Posted by Satori:
Special teams player and UDFA Jamari Lattimore isn't (yet) good enough to be a starting ILB in the NFL
4th round compensatory pick Jerron McMillian didn't make the huge leap to the NFL from his small school in Maine. The 4th round pick used on McMillian is the highest pick ever used on a Maine Black Bear a DII school that no other teams scouted
Additionally, comp picks are for taking a flyer per the Packers front office
MD Jennings an undersized safety from Arkansas State who wasn't good enough for a combine invite or one of the 271 draft picks used in 2012 didn't pan out at starting safety in the NFL
Satori, Im not sure what your point is? Is that because these players weren't taken high in the draft or weren't ideally sized that somehow that excuses poor performance and lack of development by coaching?
Because if that is your point, that certainly doesn't hold water when it comes to impact rookies who made instant impacts on this team at plenty of other positions and this is hardly some rarity when you look at other teams around the league with their rookie or 2nd year or 3rd year players. These are the same players Capers along with MM felt good enough to keep on their 53. On this very same roster;
1.) 4th round pick David Bakhtiari. Instant starter and impact player at LT (arguably one of the hardest positions to learn on the field and on the OL for a right handed QB).
"Allowing just 39 total quarterback pressures in 648 passing plays, Bakhtiari had the best pass-blocking efficiency score (95.2) of any rookie offensive tackle and the 15th best in the league. According to PFF, he was only responsible for eight sacks allowed."
2.) We have an undrafted RT in Don Barclay who more then held his own as a steady starter.
3.) Jarrett Boykin, another undrafted 2nd year player racked up 682 yards receiving after Cobb went down and was a key 3rd WR on the offense doing especially well when mediocre QB's were throwing him the ball. Edgar Bennett worked with him extensively after team practices on technique and in film. He was stellar at times considering his lack of playing time prior to Cobb going down
4.) Micah Hyde 5th round pick: "He allowed 1.40 yards per coverage snap but was very active in run support when on the field, finishing with 55 tackles, including 15 credited to him as defensive stops by PFF.
The reason Hyde makes the rookie rankings, however, is the added value he has provided on special teams. He has gained 531 yards on 22 kickoff returns and 296 yards across 24 punt returns. He has also been a valuable contributor on Green Bay’s kickoff and punt-coverage units."
5.) Sam Shields as a rookie. You know that story.
The Packers have players all over the field who were either low round picks or completely undrafted who were impact players in their first year or 2. So I really don't buy the meme that because they were drafted at X or because some team didn't invite them to a combine that somehow justifies these coaches being unable to teach them their assignments, that's why they can't tackle, that's why they overpursue, and somehow someway none of this lays at the coaches feet including Capers.
At ILB, whether it's AJ Hawk, Brad Jones, Lattimore, Mulumba, none of these guys are you seeing getting any better or developing. Brad Jones still displays the same suck he did 2 years ago. AJ Hawk is no better then he was 7 years ago. Essentially the same exact player. Lattimore was in the same assignment fog in weeks 3 and 4 as he was in week 17.
At safety, see ILB. Morgan Burnett is really the same kind of player he was early in his career. In fact, some would argue he's actually regressed. Jennings is in the 3rd year. Yet he's still out of position. Still being told by Burnett where to line up. Still whiffing on tackles. Chris Banjo is another young player who showed virtually no growth from training camp to the end of this season. Richardson? See Banjo. See Jennings.
Datone Jones, like the vast majority of first round DL is spending his time learning the techniques and nuances of playing in the NFL.
A first round DL taking time to mature isn't really much of an indictment of the coaching staff.
Its pretty much what happens all over the league and Dick LeBeau commented about it just the other day in Silversteins article at JSO. He doesn't even want the rookies in there on his version of the 3-4 until they learn from the vets
Sorry, this is just horseshiit.
From Datone Jone's fellow rookie class. Also taken in the 1st round. Projected to be taken around the same slot as Jones was going to go:
"New York Jets defensive lineman Sheldon Richardson:
Playing as a hybrid 3-technique defensive tackle/5-technique defensive end on the Jets defensive front, Richardson became an immediate star.
His 77 total tackles were the most of any interior defensive lineman not named J.J. Watt, while he also recorded 15.5 total tackles for loss (3.5 sacks) and 33 total quarterback pressures. Yet much of his impact came not in plays recorded next to his name in the box score, but in which he occupied blockers to free up his teammates to make plays.
Overall, PFF gave Richardson a 30.4 cumulative rating. That was the best of any NFL rookie and the fifth best among all NFL players classified as 3-4 DEs. He is the deserving choice for Defensive Rookie of the Year.
More Rookies from Datone's class:
Ezekiel Ansah, DE, Lions:
"Ansah led the way with eight sacks, even though he missed two games due to injury. He was inconsistent as a rusher, however, recording just 34 quarterback pressures in 349 passing snaps. That gave him a pass-rush productivity score of 8.1 (26th among the 38 4-3 DEs to rush the passer on 50 percent of their teams’ passing snaps).
As a run defender, Ansah showed immediate ability as a physical edge-defender. Though he only recorded 32 tackles, he often did a good job setting the edge of the line and occupying blockers to free up his teammates to make plays.
Kawann Shortt (2nd round pick) DT/DE:
With an overall rating of 16.4, PFF ranked Short as the 14th-best defensive tackle in the NFL.
Short did not start any games for the Panthers but was a key rotational player, especially as an interior pass-rusher. With 36 total quarterback pressures in 332 passing snaps, his pass-rushing productivity score of 8.4 ranked ninth among defensive tackles who played at least 50 percent of their teams’ passing snaps.
Playing mostly as a 3-technique defensive tackle, Short has also been solid against the run. His run-stop percentage (15 stops in 165 run snaps) ranked 16th among all NFL defensive tackles who played at least 25 percent of their teams’ run snaps, while he has recorded 30 total tackles.
Ah yes. Let's talk LB and safeties shall we? Again these are from Jones class:
Alec Ogletree OLB:
Ogletree made plays all over the field and on the ball. He recorded a team-leading 117 tackles, 12.5 tackles for loss and 10 passes defensed, including one interception returned for a 98-yard touchdown. Ogletree also forced six fumbles, while no other rookies caused more than two.
Tyrone Mathieu, Safety/CB:
Mathieu finished his rookie season with 68 total tackles, nine passes defensed (two interceptions), six total tackles for loss (one sack) and one forced fumble, all the while allowing just 0.90 yards per coverage snap. Classified as a cornerback by PFF, he had a 15.5 overall rating, ranking him tied for third among all NFL cornerbacks.
Kenny Vaccaro, SS:
Vaccaro lined up all over the field for the Saints, playing everywhere from both safety spots to slot cornerback and linebacker. He made plays both in pass coverage and as a blitzing pass-rusher, while he was a key player on the back end of the defense in run support.
Vaccaro’s play steadily improved over the course of the season, which he finished with 79 total tackles, six passes defensed (one interception), five quarterback pressures, six tackles for loss (one sack) and one forced fumble.
The Saints needed an impact player who could make plays at the second and third levels of their defense, and they got that from Vaccaro this year.
I could go on. And on. And on.
Not only from this season's rookie class from defensive positions, but also bring countless examples of rookie players (1st rounders, 4 rounders, undrafted) who played positions every bit as challenging as Jones who were INSTANT impact players.
Am I calling Jones a bust? Of course not. But dismissing his poor development and lack of playing time because Trog was too consumed doing things like teaching him hand techniques is simply comical at best.
Datone Jones was taken in the 1st round for a reason. And it wasn't to play less then 15% of snaps. NFL scouts were quoted as saying do not be surprised if this kid gets 10 + sacks in his rookie year in April 2013.
LeRoy Butler- hasn't played a down in over a decade, never played in a modern 3-4 system and played for a DC that used very few sub packages.
Butler doesn't need to have been in a "modern 3-4 defense" to point out what so many others are seeing with some of these same coaches, Capers scheme, and the lack of development of the same positions like ILB and Safety.
It hardly takes a geenyus to figure at those positions, regardless of years of experience, players are not getting better.
Is that purely Capers? Likely not. But it is his coaches. It is his lack of accountability to them. And it is more likely the same tired schit will be seeing in 2014
I think it can be argued both ways... but I'll say this:
How good is Caper's defense supposed to be with crap at OLB, MLB and S? Sure, we can point to players not being "developed" by the staff, but the ceiling for a lot of the players on defense isn't that high. How good can we reasonably expect undrafted players to be? For every Shields and Williams that turn into studs, there's hundreds of players that either don't make it or are substandard.
We will see a difference in the defense when TT drafts defensive players up the middle with high picks or brings in veterans to play MLB and S. Continuously filling gaps with late round picks and undrafted guys will get you the same results as we currently have.
BPA and all... but GB needs a MLB and a S in the first three rounds.
If Capers gets the blame for the lack of development of players such as Lattimore, Raji, McMillian, and MD Jennings, does that mean that Capers gets the credit for the development of Clay Matthews, Johnny Jolly, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins (did not blossom until 2009, Capers first year), Sam Shields, and Micah Hyde?
Until this season, Mike Neal could never stay healthy. Then Capers switches Neal to OLB and Neal finally stays healthy and finally puts forth an adequate season.
Packerupdate.net made this point:
Since 2010, the Steelers have drafted four linebackers in the first four rounds, including Jarvis Jones (1st/2013) and Jason Worilds (2nd/2010). In that same span, Green Bay general manager Ted Thompson has selected only Nick Perry (1st/2012) in the first four rounds. The rest of the linebackers added by the Packers since 2010 have either come after round 4 (D.J. Smith, Ricky Elmore, Terrell Manning, Nate Palmer and Sam Barrington) or after round 7 (Frank Zombo, Vic So’oto, Jamari Lattimore, Dezman Moses, Andy Mulumba, etc.).
Maybe Thompson is just better at drafting offensive players than he is defense.
Originally Posted by Pakrz:
How good is Caper's defense supposed to be with crap at OLB, MLB and S?
From 2011-present he's had at some point:
1.) A 1st round pick at OLB in CMIII and Perry.
2.) A 1st round pick at MLB in Hawk.
3.) A 3rd round pick at S in Burnett.
Without a doubt, he needs an upgrade opposite Burnett and a 1st round talent at ILB as well.
But at times when Perry's been healthy, Capers refused to use Perry to rush him on the best and most comfortable side. In the few times he did, he found much better production and results out of Perry. Why he didn't go back to that has left many like Mike Rodney, Cliff Cristl, even bad Bob McGinn wondering as well.
In AJ Hawk, he's not developed much if at all under Capers since he got here. A few spurts where he's looked like a #1 pick otherwise he's a reliable at times solid LB who looks all too often like a HS kid playing in a big boys league.
But even beyond those positions, guys like Worthy and certainly BJ Raji are underperforming as well if not flat out regressing.
Quality players certainly help. And with them, yes a Capers defense would get better. But no one's going to sit here and tell teams in the top 10 in defense are that because they have marquee players at damn near every position.
It's just not reality. Coaches gotta get players who are undrafted, undersized, not ideal because of X or Y to play their position and play it well. We see it happening all over the NFL.
Originally Posted by Point Brewmaster:
Packerupdate.net made this point:
They also made this one:
But it boggles my mind how anyone who has watched this defense for the past three seasons can still defend Capers and his staff. And I don’t give a crap what his own players and other NFL coaches think. Of course the players don’t want to see Capers fired. He doesn’t hold anyone accountable and change would likely cost many of them their jobs. As for other coaches, how often do you see them openly criticize one another – especially if the one being asked about is as good a man and as well-liked as Capers?
The local beat reporters, most of whom don’t have the balls to criticize a still-employed Packers assistant, have found every excuse in the book to defend what should be indefensible. One scribe recently called this year’s defense the least talented since Capers arrived in ’09. Fine, then explain the defense that ranked dead last in the league in 2011. Simply put, when a person coordinates a defense that gives up 105 points and 1,398 yards in the last three playoff games, that coordinator shouldn’t be around to see another postseason. But it has to be the injuries. Or it has to be the personnel. BS. The NFL should be about results. A defense either stops people or it doesn’t. This one doesn’t.
Originally Posted by packerboi:
The Packers have players all over the field who were either low round picks or completely undrafted who were impact players in their first year or 2.
Am I calling Jones a bust? Of course not. But dismissing his poor development and lack of playing time because Trog was too consumed doing things like teaching him hand techniques is simply comical at best.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, thanks very much for your thorough and thoughtful response. Its obvious you put time and effort into it and its an excellent post explaining your POV. Gebins
I think my point was that the individuals you chose to use as an indictment of the coaching staff were just guys that didn't work out. It happens all the time in the NFL both in the draft and undrafteds.
You're in agreement with me that while those guys didn't work out, we have many who did- namely having (2) starting corners who were undrafted FAs.
That points to the coaches being able to develop players, does it not ?
Especially Shields, a former WR turned into a top notch starting corner.That's awesome. Other teams spend high first rounders to get a corner worthy of starting
As for your tirade on Datone Jones, I understand your expectations weren't met, and you are unhappy about that.
But that's on you, not the Packers or the player. DL take time to develop and pulling out a few who did work out is just as easily dismissed by the large number who didn't work out or took more time to reach their potential.
That's not horseschit, its the way the NFL works and if you think otherwise, that's fine. Ask Goalline, he'll tell ya
( IF he isn't too much of a pooosy to step up 
)
Also, you noted that Datone's snaps dropped at the end of the year and I wanted to remind you that those were situational changes per MM. When they faced the Steelers, Bears and 9ers- they loaded up on the beef to play the run. They played more base 3-4 and put Pickett, Raji, Boyd and CJ on the field over the younger, smaller Datone.
That's not an indictment of his future either, its situational football and they played the better Okie DE, as they should
MM also talked yesterday about how hard it is to get the young guys ready under the new CBA and that he and all of the NFL coaches are all having to adjust to the new world. We'll see how that goes going forward.
Maybe its hard to teach a complex defense given the limits of the current CBA. Seattle has taken a different approach by using very few sub packages and playing straight- up with their very talented roster.
Currently GB doesn't have that luxury
You wanna suck LeRoy's cock ? I'm certainly not gonna stop ya, but have you ever stopped to wonder why he didn't get any coaching offers despite his interest and obvious skill set ? Not even a sniff ? And in his current role, his job is to drive interest and create controversy. I don't dismiss Butler out of hand; he's a smart guy- but I do take it with a large grain of salt given his current employer.
So here's the deal as I see it.
You and many others loathe Capers and want him gone. That's fine.
So far, the Packers front office and HC feel differently, so that leaves you with at least (2) choices
1) You can accept it and move on
2) You can continue to kvetch about it. (Boris has massive bandwidth available)
I'd also suggest you refrain from borrowing trouble- ie you're already pissed about the Packers defense sucking next year and its only January....
"And it is more likely the same tired schit will be seeing in 2014"
There's more than enough real things to be concerned about without having to invent/imagine new ones that may or may not come to pass
Who should decide on the fate of a coach, the guys at 1265 or unhappy fans on a message board ?
Answer that and I think you'll have a more enjoyable offseason.
IF they are right, all is good in GB. IF they are rong, then people get fired and we start fresh in 2014 with more and better players on defense.
Onward
Originally Posted by Satori:
As for your tirade on Datone Jones, I understand your expectations weren't met, and you are unhappy about that.
But that's on you, not the Packers or the player.
I would speculate that Datone and the Packers feel expectations were not me and neither are happy with how the season played out in relation to Datone Jones production. I speculate that they hoped for more as well. Perhaps everyone shares it.
Now Butler's comments are discredited in your opinion. That seems a bit convenient. Some other GM says "not on Capers" and we need to take it as gospel, but a former NFL defensive star says "umm, its on Capers" and it doesn't count.
"You and many other loathe Capers and want him gone." That is a loaded statement. I loathe ignorant statements about AJ Hawk being a good football player, but I don't loathe Capers. I feel his (Capers) employment should be evaluated on sucking balls and not getting the job done more often than not. Lots of guys in the league have been canned for less. I believe his scheme just doesn't work with these guys and I believe there is someone out there that could gameplan a reasonably successful defense using the young morons that have been assembled.
"Who should decide the fate of a coach?" Well no **** it shouldn't be us, but you knew that. The tone of that question, and some of your other posts (again, in my opinion. Correct me if I am wrong, I've been a moron before.) is that we can't even discuss these issues? It's a damn message board, its a place to express your opinion. If your opinion sucks, you'll find out soon enough, so you best bring some sort foundation for your ****ty opinion. This "1265 hasn't fired him, they are smarter than us, so he must be perfectly fine" is a lazy response. So a guy like Bob Sanders was perfectly fine until he wasn't?
Personally, if you want to take the "1265 makes the decisions, I need not be thoughtful about any of it until something happens" that is fine, but it screams "Chicago Cub fan" to me*.
Forward
*caution- loaded statement
Originally Posted by packerboi:
1.) 4th round pick David Bakhtiari. Instant starter and impact player at LT (arguably one of the hardest positions to learn on the field and on the
Bakhtiari was also the 60th-best OT this year according to PFF.
Originally Posted by Satori:
Originally Posted by packerboi:
As for your tirade on Datone Jones, I understand your expectations weren't met, and you are unhappy about that.
LOL a tirade? I simply pointed out to you that plenty of defensive players in Jones class made impacts their rookie years including those who play 3-4 DE.
Your point seemed to be that no no, for the vast majority of defensive players it takes time to learn the nuances of playing their position. Yet I just showed you a slew of rookies in Jones own class who made impacts now. Not in 3 years. Now.
Also, you noted that Datone's snaps dropped at the end of the year and I wanted to remind you that those were situational changes per MM. When they faced the Steelers, Bears and 9ers- they loaded up on the beef to play the run. They played more base 3-4 and put Pickett, Raji, Boyd and CJ on the field over the younger, smaller Datone.
No. I did not say his playing time dropped at the end of the year. It was dropping like a stone long before the last couple games. This is from ESPN back on Nov. 30th:
". Datone Jones played his lowest percentage of snaps (15 percent) this season in part because defensive coordinator Dom Capers did not use his dime package, which features Jones as an inside pass-rusher. ... Boyd was active instead:"
MM also talked yesterday about how hard it is to get the young guys ready under the new CBA and that he and all of the NFL coaches are all having to adjust to the new world. We'll see how that goes going forward.
No argument here. Indeed, he has an excellent point and I agree.
You wanna suck LeRoy's cock ? I'm certainly not gonna stop ya, but have you ever stopped to wonder why he didn't get any coaching offers despite his interest and obvious skill set ?
Really Satori, I expect better from you. I brought up a single point he made. Nothing more. I am not some Butler fanboy. In fact, if anything it should be YOU cheering him on as he's done almost as good a job at being an apologist for any and everything Packers with the exception of a few critical points he makes on the team.
That's why his statement stood out to me. Because most the time, like you, he's spinning anything and everything he can to defend the Packers. Perhaps that is because he indeed hasn't gotten a sniff at a coaching position so that's why most of the time he is defending them, in hopes he can latch onto a coaching job there one day.
So here's the deal as I see it.
You and many others loathe Capers and want him gone. That's fine
Well, news for you. You see me wrong. Show me a single post or thread where I said I loathe Capers or hate him. Nothing of the sort my friend. I think he's been a good coach. But he has an issue with holding his staff and some of his players accountable. So it's little wonder he gets the support he does. With him, everyones job his safe.
He certainly get's credit for guys like Shields, CMIII, Williams, even Neal this season. But we all it's a bottom line business. And we're seeing the same schit in nearly every playoff game since 2011. Including when their healthy:
105 points. 1400 yards.
As for how to handle my happiness, I am well equipped how to do so without your patronizing advice. Been around here 13 years. I think by now I've learned how to support this team, criticize it where I see fit, and give kudos where it's warranted. Onward indeed.
Originally Posted by packerboi:
Originally Posted by Pakrz:
How good is Caper's defense supposed to be with crap at OLB, MLB and S?
Quality players certainly help. And with them, yes a Capers defense would get better. But no one's going to sit here and tell teams in the top 10 in defense are that because they have marquee players at damn near every position.
This has been repeated several times now. I don't see anyone suggesting top 10 D teams have marquee players at damn near every position. But it's clear this defense has 1, maybe 2 "marquee players" and that is probably 2-5 fewer than those top D's. I'm sure they have rookies contributing too but who is playing next to those rookies? We have rookies next to rookies and next to rotational guys. Imagine how much better our secondary would be with Collins next to Burnett instead of Jennings. One or 2 players can make a helluva difference. And we will see it if TT strikes gold in the draft or FA when filling that spot this offseason. Let's hope the 4th try is the charm.
Originally Posted by packerboi:
Originally Posted by Pakrz:
How good is Caper's defense supposed to be with crap at OLB, MLB and S?
From 2011-present he's had at some point:
1.) A 1st round pick at OLB in CMIII and Perry.
2.) A 1st round pick at MLB in Hawk.
3.) A 3rd round pick at S in Burnett.
I believe the defense would look a lot better if CMIII and Perry weren't injured all the time, Hawk actually lived up to his draft status and Burnett had somebody next to him that resembled an NFL football player.
Capers fault?
Is the opinion that a different DC would have turned the 2013 Packer defense into a strength given the same set of circumstances (Injuries, players available, etc)? I would tend to disagree with that thought process.
I'll try to cut the overreaction off at the pass: my guess, not to speak for anyone here, is that the opinion is not that another DC would turn the 2013 D into a strength but rather improve it enough for the O to go further in the playoffs.
The defense this year did play well enough for the team to go further in the playoffs.
Originally Posted by Pakrz:
Is the opinion that a different DC would have turned the 2013 Packer defense into a strength given the same set of circumstances (Injuries, players available, etc)? I would tend to disagree with that thought process.
Again. I do not know why we're focusing on 2013 and 2013 only. This is not what this is about. If it was, I certainly wouldn't be in this conversation.
This is a body of work over 3+ years now with said results. Including times when he had his best players healthy and playing and this defense couldn't get it done.
It's about a body of work over 3+ years where at ILB and S in particular players haven't gotten better. Haven't developed. These are 1st rounders. They are 3rd rounders. They are undrafted players.
You seem to be looking at the trees. I am looking at the forest.
quote:You don't loathe Capers,
I didn't loathe Mike Sherman, but after 2005 I still wanted him out of GB.
I'm not patronizing you kind sir, and apologize if you took it that way. If kvetching about things completely out of your control or expertise makes you happy then by all means you should continue.
You made it a whole post without sounding patronizing... oh wait you didn't even make it past the next sentence.
So should Capers be fired?
What about Thompson?
It seems the complaint is that either Capers can't communicate his scheme any more or the scheme no longer works, or the players are inadequate - or maybe all of the above. If this is the case, then either Capers or Thompson (or both) need to be held accountable.
Players miss too many tackles.
Any of them part of the 17 FA's? No need to try to resign them if they are.
Originally Posted by Hungry5:
So should Capers be fired?
What about Thompson?
It seems the complaint is that either Capers can't communicate his scheme any more or the scheme no longer works, or the players are inadequate - or maybe all of the above. If this is the case, then either Capers or Thompson (or both) need to be held accountable.
What does accountable mean? Fired? Not in my opinion but they are on the clock. The Packers have the best player in the NFL who is not getting any younger and a team that is just a bit shy of winning it all. Everyone in the organization needs to step up. Better drafting, better playing and better coaching.
You people.....
-Have too much free time.
-Care too much
-Need to realize you are paid by nobody for your football expertise.
I shall focus this off-season on improving my hair.
I wanted Sherman out after 2003.
Removing Capers may or may not be the answer. I don't know. All I know is something needs to change because we're not receiving any DEVELOPMENT from our defensive side of the ball
glad you can afford hair products on your forum cop salary
Agree, Boris. We want to see guys get more assignment-sure, not less as the year goes on. We want to see guys so well coached that Bush has no inclination to leave his feet whatsoever because he knows it is a cardinal sin to give up the edge against the run late in the game. We want guys to try to punch the ball out at least once in a while to get a turnover. We want the blown plays to be counted on one hand, not two or more. We want your No. 1 draft pick to be playing MORE at the end of the year, not less. We want... well, there's a lot more development and improvement I want to see, and I'm not seeing with Capers. And that's been over three-plus years, not just this year.
Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:
glad you can afford hair products on your forum cop salary
Covered by Obama-Care.
I was a skeptic at first, but things are turning out to be awesome!
@Justin_Felder
Per @AdamSchefter, #Packers exec Alonzo Highsmith on radar for GM jobs. GB front office raided in recent years...Schneider, Dorsey, McKenzie
Originally Posted by Blair Kiel:
Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:
glad you can afford hair products on your forum cop salary
Covered by Obama-Care.
I was a skeptic at first, but things are turning out to be awesome!
Socialist hair.
Day-um.
Call me Che Guevara.
Originally Posted by Boris:
I wanted Sherman out after 2003.
Removing Capers may or may not be the answer. I don't know. All I know is something needs to change because we're not receiving any DEVELOPMENT from our defensive side of the ball
I wouldn't say ANY development. Certainly the likes of CMIII, Daniels, Shields, Hayward and even Boyd developed.
Point of parliamentary procedure your honor....
We're not receiving ENOUGH development.
We're not receiving ENOUGH development.
packerboi:
2.) A 1st round pick at MLB in Hawk.
Wait a second. You are assigning the quality of the player to average quality player at his position in the draft and in the case of Hawk, that is an absolute fallacy.
That part of your argument is frankly mistaken.
RE the 'development' of the defensive player - what are the players doing to improve themselves? In my mind, the responsibility split is something like 80/20 player/coach.
The coaches hand out the playbook & teach the plays; the players practice them. And then in the games, the players screw them up (penalties, missed tackles, blown coverages, etc.).
We all look for somebody to blame. I guess it's just easier to dump one coach rather than half of the starting defense and then assume there'll be improvement.
People just dont' like Dom's hair. Kiel notwithstanding.
Kiel is downright offended by Dom's roadkill badger.
Score 1 for it's the personnel, primarily due to crappy drafts.
If you are defending Capers, you must be laying blame somwhere.. If you lay it on the players, that is the same as laying it on TT.. Here are the options,
1 - Continue to have same GM draft D with high picks for same coordinator. Hope it corrects itself.
2 - Replace the coordinator and hope the players we drafted do have talent.
3 - Replace the GM and hope it was the players and not coaching.
I don't think anyone is satisfied with the one and done. I think most agree something needs to be done differently after 3 years of struggling.. Pick your poison, I'm going with option 2 as I think TT is still one of the best in the game.
Also, the whole the Packers know best and we shouldn't even debate argument is the worst. Why even have this site then? Just go jerk off to your Lynn Dickey poster because sharing opinions is pointless.