TT and MM's philosophy is draft and develop, so looking at the defense, it's a bit shocking that there's not a whole lot there to develop. There are a couple of young guys that have shown something and could make a big leap next year (so I hope):
Shields, Burnett, and D.J. Smith. Maybe Neal and C.J. Wilson.
Guys that are unknowns that might make an impact: M.D. Jennings, House, and Guy
Young guys that need to get back on track: Raji, Brad Jones, Zombo, and Tramon Williams.
I think Wynn, Walden, Lee and Bush have hit their ceilings and it's not pretty. You could argue some of the guys above have too (e.g., Zombo, Brad Jones).
Bringing a whole lot of rookies may not give us the instant impact really needed. Looking at the above, counting on development only for an much-improved defense is a tough sell. I think one key FA acquisition needs to be made (not necessarily top-tier, likely DL).
when you think about it, it is remarkable that the packers won a super bowl with guys like walden and zombo having major roles on defense.
looks to me like tramon regressed this year, and not having collins was a big deal.
need an explosive pass rusher. matthews can't do it all by himself.
looks to me like tramon regressed this year, and not having collins was a big deal.
need an explosive pass rusher. matthews can't do it all by himself.
I have no idea what the Salary cap impact is but...
Cut AJ Hawk - has to be a younger guy (DJ Smith) who can do as good as he can.
Sign Wells
Sign Finley to a 3 yr deal with decent size bonus, this way he gets another chance at FA in 3 years
Target and draft a difference maker to complement Matthews either at OLB or DE.
Draft another big body for the DLine, guessing Howard Green is gone.
Draft an athletic safety with range assuming Collins is not back.
Cut AJ Hawk - has to be a younger guy (DJ Smith) who can do as good as he can.
Sign Wells
Sign Finley to a 3 yr deal with decent size bonus, this way he gets another chance at FA in 3 years
Target and draft a difference maker to complement Matthews either at OLB or DE.
Draft another big body for the DLine, guessing Howard Green is gone.
Draft an athletic safety with range assuming Collins is not back.
Resigning Wells is a must:
Drop Finley, he has no confidence left and needs a change in scenery:
Draft the best DE available and try and trade up and/or get something for Flynn or Jones.
Draft a safety to replace Peprha, 3rd or 4th with Jehico Nelson out of Arkansas. Can't remember the last time he missed a tackle.
Most of all draft an OLB or get one thru free agency.
Drop Finley, he has no confidence left and needs a change in scenery:
Draft the best DE available and try and trade up and/or get something for Flynn or Jones.
Draft a safety to replace Peprha, 3rd or 4th with Jehico Nelson out of Arkansas. Can't remember the last time he missed a tackle.
Most of all draft an OLB or get one thru free agency.
Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush!
When was the last time we had a great one? - Reggie White!
The only problem is that many times these are risky draft picks. i.e busts.
TT will figure it out.
When was the last time we had a great one? - Reggie White!
The only problem is that many times these are risky draft picks. i.e busts.
TT will figure it out.
we had a pass rush last year.
Resign Wells. Cut Driver (I hate saying that, but it's a business move). Let Bush go...some will give him money to be a starting CB.
If Finley will take a reasonable deal, give it to him. Otherwise, franchise him. He is too valuable to this offense, and his is still very young. He'll be fine.
If Finley resigns, tag & trade Flynn...provided that serious cap ramifications can be avoided (not exactly sure how that would work). Someone will give up picks for him. If Finley requires a tag, let Flynn walk and take the compensatory pick for him.
A good pass rush makes everyone look better...corners, safeties, etc. Therefore, the main goal of the offseason is to address the pass rush issue - i.e., find someone talented to play opposite of CMIII and add a pass rushing defensive lineman to fill the absence left by Jenkins' departure.
Honestly, we all knew that the OLB position opposite of CMIII was a void to address after last season. Just about everyone was shocked that TT didn't address it in the draft. Maybe he had too much confidence in Capers' ability to make it work with the guys on the roster. Whatever happened, the issue now needs to be addressed. I have complete confidence in TT...he'll take care of it.
We're only a couple players away from being the NFC favorite to make the Super Bowl next year...and we may be the favorite without any major additions. We'll be fine.
If Finley will take a reasonable deal, give it to him. Otherwise, franchise him. He is too valuable to this offense, and his is still very young. He'll be fine.
If Finley resigns, tag & trade Flynn...provided that serious cap ramifications can be avoided (not exactly sure how that would work). Someone will give up picks for him. If Finley requires a tag, let Flynn walk and take the compensatory pick for him.
A good pass rush makes everyone look better...corners, safeties, etc. Therefore, the main goal of the offseason is to address the pass rush issue - i.e., find someone talented to play opposite of CMIII and add a pass rushing defensive lineman to fill the absence left by Jenkins' departure.
Honestly, we all knew that the OLB position opposite of CMIII was a void to address after last season. Just about everyone was shocked that TT didn't address it in the draft. Maybe he had too much confidence in Capers' ability to make it work with the guys on the roster. Whatever happened, the issue now needs to be addressed. I have complete confidence in TT...he'll take care of it.
We're only a couple players away from being the NFC favorite to make the Super Bowl next year...and we may be the favorite without any major additions. We'll be fine.
quote:That is why we need to see Cobb start and play lots of slot. He is too shifty to get caught in bump and run.
I think what it says is we need a better running game. Look at all the other big-O's this year. They all have at least respectable running games, some of them have very good/great running games. When the D plays press man and/or the QB is having a bad day, a successful running game can at best provide first downs and at worst soften the pass D by forcing them to pull pass coverage back into the box to play run first, making it easier for our WR's to get open/separation. Every team in the divisional round (but the Packers!) had running games that could do either and sometimes both of those things.
It's interesting because through most of the regular season, there seemed to be a growing sentiment throughout the league that in the emerging era of "arena ball", RB's were becoming less and less valuable and possibly obsolete. Take another look at who is left in the derby and tell me Gore, Rice, Green-Ellis+Ridley, and Bradshaw+Jacobs weren't integral to their teams being there.
My fear in letting Finley go is that some other team in the NFC North will find him, and after getting it together, we'll have to figure out a way to stop him twice a year. Proceed with caution.
I won't underestimate just how good TT is and how quickly he is able to reload a roster. I think back to 2005 and early 2006 and quite frankly in pre-season 2006 I thought the Packers genuinely looked like they'd be the worst team in the NFL. By the end of 2007, this team was an interception away from the Super Bowl. A complete turnaround in just a couple of years.
Then came 2008 where Favre "retired" and the defense had a collapse similar to this year and in some ways worse. In 2 years, TT rebuilt that group into a Super Bowl Champion. Fixing the defense may take just 1 off-season, or maybe 2, but based on his track record, he'll figure out some way to get a little more balance on this team in talent than there was this year.
Then came 2008 where Favre "retired" and the defense had a collapse similar to this year and in some ways worse. In 2 years, TT rebuilt that group into a Super Bowl Champion. Fixing the defense may take just 1 off-season, or maybe 2, but based on his track record, he'll figure out some way to get a little more balance on this team in talent than there was this year.
Losing Jenkins last year was the biggest key to our defense dropping. Losing a serious pass rushing DE put a lot more pressure on CWIII. Allowing teams to focus in on CWIII hurt the sack numbers. We need to get someone who can come in and rush. Everyone has said it and it is just obvious.
If Woodson will take a move to S that would be great, but I think he has made a lot of noise against the idea. Still, point out how Rod Woodson extended his career and made the record books while finishing as a safety and point out Collins' INT numbers and maybe it works out.
Finley has a lot of tape from the last year and a half of how much he drops easy passes. I think his number is going to come down a lot from where he thinks he should be. This could be like a Prince Fielder free agency with the addition of a salary cap so a small market team can survive. Finley might think we are low balling him, but find we are the best offer. He might also realize that a three year contract might be the best way to stay with A-Rod and get his numbers up. We really tried to force the ball into his hands this year and sometimes it hurt.
Basic rules of the Ron Wolf draft: always draft a DB (you can never have too many DBs) and always draft a QB (you should always be making the next QB, to play or trade). TT has not always adhered to both of these, but he heard Wolf say this repeatedly.
I have seen that Dom is on some head coaching lists. Would be a little surprised if this year earns him the HC job somewhere, but he can start talking now. Time to see where our staff is on this. Maybe Greene gets a look, but TT has to at least think about the possibility of seeing who could fill that job. Still, getting two chances at head coaching and getting fired without ever seeing the play-offs does not often get you a third chance (granted both jobs were with expansion teams).
Priorities:
Pass rush (DE or OLB)
DB (FS and CB)
Guard
If Woodson will take a move to S that would be great, but I think he has made a lot of noise against the idea. Still, point out how Rod Woodson extended his career and made the record books while finishing as a safety and point out Collins' INT numbers and maybe it works out.
Finley has a lot of tape from the last year and a half of how much he drops easy passes. I think his number is going to come down a lot from where he thinks he should be. This could be like a Prince Fielder free agency with the addition of a salary cap so a small market team can survive. Finley might think we are low balling him, but find we are the best offer. He might also realize that a three year contract might be the best way to stay with A-Rod and get his numbers up. We really tried to force the ball into his hands this year and sometimes it hurt.
Basic rules of the Ron Wolf draft: always draft a DB (you can never have too many DBs) and always draft a QB (you should always be making the next QB, to play or trade). TT has not always adhered to both of these, but he heard Wolf say this repeatedly.
I have seen that Dom is on some head coaching lists. Would be a little surprised if this year earns him the HC job somewhere, but he can start talking now. Time to see where our staff is on this. Maybe Greene gets a look, but TT has to at least think about the possibility of seeing who could fill that job. Still, getting two chances at head coaching and getting fired without ever seeing the play-offs does not often get you a third chance (granted both jobs were with expansion teams).
Priorities:
Pass rush (DE or OLB)
DB (FS and CB)
Guard
I am thinking that the greatest investment for this team (before the weekend) would be stick-um. If we don't drop several first downs we would have kept drives going. If we didn't fumble the ball on our side of the fifty several times we would not have given up nearly as many points. Short field hurt our defense easily as much as their own play did. When we didn't turn the ball over in the third quarter we managed to give up zero points, and still only score three. We still need to focus on the defense the most in the draft, but uncharacteristicly bad play by our offense made the defense look much worse yesterday.
Well, Thompson will have enough draft choices to really reshape the roster, and/or move up in the draft in the early rounds. We have 12 picks in total.
Our original 7 (at 28th position) two 4th round conditional picks for Jenkins/Colledge signings, the 7th round Jet pick for the trade of Caleb Schlauderaff, and two conditional 7th round picks for the Brandon Jackson/Spitz sigings. We don't get a conditional pick for Korey Hall because the max on conditional picks is 4.
Our original 7 (at 28th position) two 4th round conditional picks for Jenkins/Colledge signings, the 7th round Jet pick for the trade of Caleb Schlauderaff, and two conditional 7th round picks for the Brandon Jackson/Spitz sigings. We don't get a conditional pick for Korey Hall because the max on conditional picks is 4.
Toughest thing that Thompson has to deal with is that all the personnel moves might not make any difference to the success/non-success of the 2013 defensive unit. B.J. Raji and Tramon Williams. Those two guys will have a bigger impact on the effectiveness of the unit than any new players brought in. If both of those guys play like they are capable, the defense will be pretty darn good. If they both play like they did this year, where Raji takes a large percentage of plays off and Williams allows big-play after big-play and misses tackle after tackle (doesn't find a cure for Antonio Freeman-disease), the defense is likely worse than average even if Thompson finds the best pass-rusher in the draft.
Haven't really followed what's coming up this off-season and I don't follow the salary cap stuff anymore (no cpheph1 anymore
) , but if feasible here are a couple suggestions:
-Sign DE-Cory Redding. I was never that big a fan of this player when he was with the Lions, but he seems to have improved with age. Certainly doesn't have eye-popping sack numbers, but seems to do a good job collapsing the pocket and putting some heat on the QB. All around solid player that gives a team an honest days work. I'm not interested in big-money free agents, and Redding will probably sign for mid-range money and if that's the case I'd like to see the Packers in on him. If the contract gets in Chris Canty territory, then forget it.
-Draft Courtney Upshaw/OLB/Alabama. This would require a trade up but that's a good route for the Packers to take this year. I've seen him anywhere from #8 to #28. If he goes in the top 15 he's out of reach, but if he makes it to #16 he's in range if the Packer's package their first two picks and move up. Upshaw has the look of a top pass rusher and seems to do everything well. Looks like a perfect fit for the defense and could be an effective NFL'er right out of the gate. If Upshaw is gone I'd target Mark Barron/S/Alabama in another trade up scenario. If neither of those players can be had, I'd probably look at sitting at #28 and taking Jared Crick/DE/Nebraska or Vontaze Burfict/ILB/Arizona State. Crick was injured at year's end so he's have to pass medicals. Burfict is going to get knocked for having a bad attitude and being somewhat of a menace on the football field...and there are certainly situations where I would avoid players like this...but after watching the defense get beaten like a rented mule this season I wouldn't mind seeing a bad ass added to the mix. Lord knows these guys played with ZERO attitude in 2011.
Haven't really followed what's coming up this off-season and I don't follow the salary cap stuff anymore (no cpheph1 anymore
) , but if feasible here are a couple suggestions:-Sign DE-Cory Redding. I was never that big a fan of this player when he was with the Lions, but he seems to have improved with age. Certainly doesn't have eye-popping sack numbers, but seems to do a good job collapsing the pocket and putting some heat on the QB. All around solid player that gives a team an honest days work. I'm not interested in big-money free agents, and Redding will probably sign for mid-range money and if that's the case I'd like to see the Packers in on him. If the contract gets in Chris Canty territory, then forget it.
-Draft Courtney Upshaw/OLB/Alabama. This would require a trade up but that's a good route for the Packers to take this year. I've seen him anywhere from #8 to #28. If he goes in the top 15 he's out of reach, but if he makes it to #16 he's in range if the Packer's package their first two picks and move up. Upshaw has the look of a top pass rusher and seems to do everything well. Looks like a perfect fit for the defense and could be an effective NFL'er right out of the gate. If Upshaw is gone I'd target Mark Barron/S/Alabama in another trade up scenario. If neither of those players can be had, I'd probably look at sitting at #28 and taking Jared Crick/DE/Nebraska or Vontaze Burfict/ILB/Arizona State. Crick was injured at year's end so he's have to pass medicals. Burfict is going to get knocked for having a bad attitude and being somewhat of a menace on the football field...and there are certainly situations where I would avoid players like this...but after watching the defense get beaten like a rented mule this season I wouldn't mind seeing a bad ass added to the mix. Lord knows these guys played with ZERO attitude in 2011.
While Jenkins is pointed out as a key missing pass rush piece, what may have been a bigger miss was selecting Sherrod in the first round instead of Brooks Reed, who was also available and widely predicted pre-draft to go to us. He has been a great 3-4 LB pass rusher since replacing Mario Williams when Williams was injured.
I know Thompson says he picks best player available, but the age of Clifton, and no belief that Newhouse was the answer, was also behind that decision. And, I think Thompson thought that the collection of Walden,Zombo or Jones would provide the other outside LB we needed. In hindsight, had they had more belief in Newhouse, I think Thompson would have gone Brooks over Reed.
Now, we have to figure how to move up in the draft to get the pass rusher that was available to us at pick 32 last year.
I know Thompson says he picks best player available, but the age of Clifton, and no belief that Newhouse was the answer, was also behind that decision. And, I think Thompson thought that the collection of Walden,Zombo or Jones would provide the other outside LB we needed. In hindsight, had they had more belief in Newhouse, I think Thompson would have gone Brooks over Reed.
Now, we have to figure how to move up in the draft to get the pass rusher that was available to us at pick 32 last year.
quote:Posted 01-17-2012 07:39 AM Hide PostReply With QuoteReport This Post
While Jenkins is pointed out as a key missing pass rush piece, what may have been a bigger miss was selecting Sherrod in the first round instead of Brooks Reed, who was also available and widely predicted pre-draft to go to us. He has been a great 3-4 LB pass rusher since replacing Mario Williams when Williams was injured.
Great great point. We have been talking about this all morning in the office. Reed would have been HUGE for the packers. However, if we didnt take an OT and then clifton went down as usual, people would have been screaming about how TT ignored the back-up OT problem. I think 75% of the people were fine with the pick of Sherrod even though we all did want reed. At least we got a good year out of Ricky Elmore. that dude didn't even make anyones practice squad
quote:Originally posted by slowmo:
I know Thompson says he picks best player available, but the age of Clifton, and no belief that Newhouse was the answer, was also behind that decision.
Not so sure about that, from my research (world famous consensus board!!!) it appeared that Sherrod was a higher graded prospect. This is a situation where I would believe Thompson if he said he went with the best available player (which is not always the case, as I believe the reports that the Packers had Michael Crabtree as the highest rated player and instead took B.J. Raji for need).
quote:Originally posted by barrister:
Let Bush go...some will give him money to be a starting CB.
There are 64 starting CB in the NFL, Bush will never be one of those. There are 64 primary back-up CB in the NFL, Bush should never be one of those either. He's been the favorite whipping boy on here for years and after watching that Hail Mary pass Sunday he deserved every bit of it.
I resign Grant to a 2 year incentive contract and try to trade Starks who is not good in the blitz pick up. Starks will get more in return than letting Grant go just to open a roster spot. We stll have Saine and Alex Green waiting in the wings for RB down the road plus the 2013 or 2014 draft.
If Collins can't come back move Woodson to safety where he can see the field better to make the coverage calls and still allow him to freelance a bit with safety blitz. This where trading Starks, maybe to the Jets if LT retires for one of their CB.
One more thing, get rid of those G D gloves. It's more than just coincidence that there were little drops and fumbles all last post season and all this season (except Finley) until they had to play in cold weather. Gloves may be fine when the ball is warm and soft. But when it's cold and slippery you need that hand to ball contact.
hind sight is 20-20 boys. you have the best qb in the nfl and an aging left tackle. you need to spend high picks on o-linemen. i have no problem with the sherrod pick.
quote:Originally posted by ammo:quote:Originally posted by barrister:
Let Bush go...some will give him money to be a starting CB.
There are 64 starting CB in the NFL, Bush will never be one of those. There are 64 primary back-up CB in the NFL, Bush should never be one of those either. He's been the favorite whipping boy on here for years and after watching that Hail Mary pass Sunday he deserved every bit of it.
Heh. Hey, I'm just saying that someone will overpay for him. I'm not suggesting that the Packers should do it. You don't pay top dollar for a special teams ace. Let someone else blow their cap space on that type of player.
I would have kept calling Jenkins' agent...
"Jenkinsâ market in free agency last summer was surprisingly soft when the signing period opened in late July, and Philadelphia eventually signed him to a unexpectedly low-risk deal. Though it was worth $25 million over five years, Jenkinsâ contract really was a one-year deal worth $4 million, with a $5 million option bonus due on the first day of the league year in 2012. The Packers never contacted him after he went unsigned the first few days of free agency and missed out on possibly signing Jenkins to a similar deal that Thompson would have found more palatable."
http://packersnews.greenbaypre...pnews|text|FRONTPAGE
"Jenkinsâ market in free agency last summer was surprisingly soft when the signing period opened in late July, and Philadelphia eventually signed him to a unexpectedly low-risk deal. Though it was worth $25 million over five years, Jenkinsâ contract really was a one-year deal worth $4 million, with a $5 million option bonus due on the first day of the league year in 2012. The Packers never contacted him after he went unsigned the first few days of free agency and missed out on possibly signing Jenkins to a similar deal that Thompson would have found more palatable."
http://packersnews.greenbaypre...pnews|text|FRONTPAGE
From my seat at Tony's Bar in Colorado Springs I saw little or no pressure on a opposing qb all yr. This hurt the D thru and thru. It exposed poor cb and safety play and players. A bit of pressure here and there may have shortened up coverage time and given guys less time to get lost in coverage. How many times were opposing rcvers wide open? I mean WIDE open. How many missed tackles by dbacks extended drives?
IMHO the needs are in this order.....pass rushers, dbacks, and oline. I am old enough to know that blockers and tacklers win games.
This yr improving the D is paramount, we cannot expect perfection on offense every game.
IMHO the needs are in this order.....pass rushers, dbacks, and oline. I am old enough to know that blockers and tacklers win games.
This yr improving the D is paramount, we cannot expect perfection on offense every game.
quote:Originally posted by Pikes Peak:
This yr improving the D is paramount, we cannot expect perfection on offense every game.
Couldn't agree more. No matter how potent the offense is sooner or later they were going to have an off day and would need the defense to step up and win the game. In today's NFL you need a pass rush you can't have the opposing QB having so much time he could make a sandwich and still have time to complete a pass.
My $.02 at playing TT.
Offense:
Driver: as much as we all love the guy for what he has given this franchise, he is done. All that needs to be said is the Giants covered him with a LB. DDs stats were the lowest they have been in 10 yrs. Time to move on, esp with Gurley/Borel waiting in the wings.
Wells: as has been stated, the MVP of the o-line. But he is on the bad side of 30, too. Need to look down the road a couple years, as TT is so good at doing. I wouldn't be upset if TT took Peter Konz with the 1st pick.
Finley: a mystery man. Was this past season his "recovery year" from the knee? If so, he'll likely reform to his rookie perfornamce level next year. If TT lets him walk, there is high risk of Fin going to a team we don't. I think TT will franchise him at the palatable $5.5M andsee what 2012 brings.
Flynn: can't see the franchise tag here. Too much money to risk assuming there will be a trade partner. One would think some team would trade for a proven player over an unproven draft pick. But GMs fal in love with the potential tag. It would be devastating if we have a $15M back-up QB on the roster next yr. Hopefully, we can get a high #2 for him. Realistically, he walks and we get compensation.
Defense:
Seems pretty clear to me that most guys on this unit took the offseason "off". Not a single player, imo, showed any improvement. Burnett showed flashes, but this was essentially his rookie year. He is a keeper and a likely leader down the road. Woodson has clearly lost a step or two. Raji and Mathews were taken out of the game by opposing offenses because they feared no one else. Watching the D fronts of the 9ers and Texans really underscored, to me, the Packers' shortcomings on defense. TT needs to overhaul the front 7 around Raji and CMIII and find another safety.
Lastly, since I am on my season end rant . . . it has bugged me during the entire MM era that we have virtually no running game. As others have stated, AR12 can't be all-world every single game. A strong defense and running game travel well and do well in bad weather. It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that MM runs a "dome team" offense bent on simply outscoring everyone. But when push comes to shove in Dec/Jan in Wisconsin, a viable running game is a must. I would like to see MM make a philosophical switch with his O-line play and game planning and get the run game going. It's a balance thing. AR12 is and always will be THE MAN, but I'd like to see a bit more balanced attack on O.
Oh, and by the way Aaron . . . if Miss America wants you to call. . . DO IT!!
Offense:
Driver: as much as we all love the guy for what he has given this franchise, he is done. All that needs to be said is the Giants covered him with a LB. DDs stats were the lowest they have been in 10 yrs. Time to move on, esp with Gurley/Borel waiting in the wings.
Wells: as has been stated, the MVP of the o-line. But he is on the bad side of 30, too. Need to look down the road a couple years, as TT is so good at doing. I wouldn't be upset if TT took Peter Konz with the 1st pick.
Finley: a mystery man. Was this past season his "recovery year" from the knee? If so, he'll likely reform to his rookie perfornamce level next year. If TT lets him walk, there is high risk of Fin going to a team we don't. I think TT will franchise him at the palatable $5.5M andsee what 2012 brings.
Flynn: can't see the franchise tag here. Too much money to risk assuming there will be a trade partner. One would think some team would trade for a proven player over an unproven draft pick. But GMs fal in love with the potential tag. It would be devastating if we have a $15M back-up QB on the roster next yr. Hopefully, we can get a high #2 for him. Realistically, he walks and we get compensation.
Defense:
Seems pretty clear to me that most guys on this unit took the offseason "off". Not a single player, imo, showed any improvement. Burnett showed flashes, but this was essentially his rookie year. He is a keeper and a likely leader down the road. Woodson has clearly lost a step or two. Raji and Mathews were taken out of the game by opposing offenses because they feared no one else. Watching the D fronts of the 9ers and Texans really underscored, to me, the Packers' shortcomings on defense. TT needs to overhaul the front 7 around Raji and CMIII and find another safety.
Lastly, since I am on my season end rant . . . it has bugged me during the entire MM era that we have virtually no running game. As others have stated, AR12 can't be all-world every single game. A strong defense and running game travel well and do well in bad weather. It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that MM runs a "dome team" offense bent on simply outscoring everyone. But when push comes to shove in Dec/Jan in Wisconsin, a viable running game is a must. I would like to see MM make a philosophical switch with his O-line play and game planning and get the run game going. It's a balance thing. AR12 is and always will be THE MAN, but I'd like to see a bit more balanced attack on O.
Oh, and by the way Aaron . . . if Miss America wants you to call. . . DO IT!!
Yes! Back to the ZBS!!quote:Originally posted by Badgeman:
I would like to see MM make a philosophical switch with his O-line play...
Just curious...does the new CBA retain the transition tag, and if so, what would it be for a QB? Might be possible to use that on Flynn if the cost is more reasonable, then if he found a team and got a contract offer, TT could negotiate a deal to not match the offer and trade him somewhere else.
quote:Lastly, since I am on my season end rant . . . it has bugged me during the entire MM era that we have virtually no running game. As others have stated, AR12 can't be all-world every single game. A strong defense and running game travel well and do well in bad weather. It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that MM runs a "dome team" offense bent on simply outscoring everyone. But when push comes to shove in Dec/Jan in Wisconsin, a viable running game is a must.
I've posted the same sentiment in several threads. All the teams left in the final four have respectable, good, and even great running games AND good/great D's. Spreading 'em will win most games but it hasn't done great vs. strong D's. The Packers had plenty of drops and fumbles which you could argue is an anomoly but they struggled vs. KS and NYG press/man coverage and a way to loosen any pass D up is to move the chains on the ground on a consistent basis. And oh, if you're able to do that you don't NEED to depend on your QB and WR's who just might be having an off day in the divisional round of the playoffs.
Not to derail the thread into another running game argument but IMHO it is more about the attempts to run the ball. The combo of Grant, 8-10 touches, Starks 8-10 touches and Saine 5-8 touches is pretty darn could. Were I see the most benefit is that one guys remain fresh, grant looked really good at the end of the year here (except for the fumble) but two it will make play action all the more effective against teams that play man coverage on the WRs.
Side note the OLine of Lang Wells Sitton and Bulaga strikes me as a good start, mean streak of road graters to make this all very plausible. Just need to find Cliftons replacement if Sherrod and Newhouse (whom i still hold out hope for) are not up to the task.
Side note the OLine of Lang Wells Sitton and Bulaga strikes me as a good start, mean streak of road graters to make this all very plausible. Just need to find Cliftons replacement if Sherrod and Newhouse (whom i still hold out hope for) are not up to the task.
Three of the four winning teams last weekend had very strong defenses and good running games, two things we are weakest in.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
For the defense yes an infuse of talent is needed. Does some of the lost time in the offseason due to the lockout have some blame. My guess is that Capers system is pretty complicated and for guys learning new roles with the Jenkins departure does this help explain the some of the decrease defensive production?
Hey Pikes Peak,
Welcome!
Welcome!
Perhaps MM is uncomfortable running the ball. You'd think after several years of being in the system, the running game, if it was ever going to, would have come around.
The ZBS, implemented by MM, failed. The current running scheme has not been a failure, but it also hasn't been much of a focus, let alone a strength of the offense.
Is it personnel? Is it the scheme? Is it coaching? MM doesn't run the ball much. Why? And when he does, it tends to be in consecutive plays on a single series rather then evenly divided over the course of the game. Why?
I don't have the answers, just questions.
The ZBS, implemented by MM, failed. The current running scheme has not been a failure, but it also hasn't been much of a focus, let alone a strength of the offense.
Is it personnel? Is it the scheme? Is it coaching? MM doesn't run the ball much. Why? And when he does, it tends to be in consecutive plays on a single series rather then evenly divided over the course of the game. Why?
I don't have the answers, just questions.
Pats were 20th ranked rushing team, NYG dead last. Pats were dead last in defense, Giants were 27th.
These two teams are very likely to meet in the Super Bowl.
These two teams are very likely to meet in the Super Bowl.
Yes and the Giants playing like the 27th ranked defense (and the running game playing like they're ranked last) the last couple weeks is what got them in the NFCC game. Is it only obvious to me they're playing far better in those categories right now?
It doesn't matter what the hell the team rankings were, the Packers had no running game to lean on and no D to bail them out sunday.
It doesn't matter what the hell the team rankings were, the Packers had no running game to lean on and no D to bail them out sunday.
quote:Originally posted by Sep: The current running scheme has not been a failure, but it also hasn't been much of a focus, let alone a strength of the offense.
I agree with this. M3 just won't develop a game plan focused around the running game...no matter who he has back there. That is one thing he could learn from Holmgren. Loved how he made the running game more of a focal point later in the season.
The Packers had a running game, but as typical, McCarthy did not lean on it.
Starks was 6 for 43 and Grant was 8 for 33...
Starks was 6 for 43 and Grant was 8 for 33...
I think who the running backs are is not the question. Jim Brown would not have found many holes to run thru this yr. The lack of running success to me is either the scheme (or lack of it) or the run blocking ability of the lineman.
The backs currently on roster would do just fine with a few more holes. A running game does not need 20 yd runs. Altho they are nice, a team with the Packers structure would do fine with a few more 5 yd gains.
Run blocking needs to improve and the coaches need to upgrade the offensive game plan to include successful runs.
The backs currently on roster would do just fine with a few more holes. A running game does not need 20 yd runs. Altho they are nice, a team with the Packers structure would do fine with a few more 5 yd gains.
Run blocking needs to improve and the coaches need to upgrade the offensive game plan to include successful runs.
I agree. I thought Brooks Reed and Clay would have been great. Also could have kept Jenkins with a little finess.
quote:Originally posted by slowmo:
While Jenkins is pointed out as a key missing pass rush piece, what may have been a bigger miss was selecting Sherrod in the first round instead of Brooks Reed, who was also available and widely predicted pre-draft to go to us. He has been a great 3-4 LB pass rusher since replacing Mario Williams when Williams was injured.
I know Thompson says he picks best player available, but the age of Clifton, and no belief that Newhouse was the answer, was also behind that decision. And, I think Thompson thought that the collection of Walden,Zombo or Jones would provide the other outside LB we needed. In hindsight, had they had more belief in Newhouse, I think Thompson would have gone Brooks over Reed.
Now, we have to figure how to move up in the draft to get the pass rusher that was available to us at pick 32 last year.
I think the running backs were either trying to
a) get Rodgers killed
or
b) play hot potato
a) get Rodgers killed
or
b) play hot potato
Packer Update has a series of new articles including this one on 6 Packers who probably won't be back next year:
http://packerupdate.net/?p=16130
He also has a post on his views for fixing the defense
http://packerupdate.net/?p=16130
He also has a post on his views for fixing the defense