Offensive trading help for the Packers before the deadline.

Beat up and expensive older veterans? Nah. We already have Jimmy Graham.

OJ Howard is 24. 

Parker is 26.

Both would be instant upgrades over Allison or Graham. 

I don't need to explain a healthy AJ Green. If the price is right, you roll that dice. 

I think pieces like this are fun thought exercises, but in the end, it's fantasy football-think. If I were to engage in that, I'd be looking at OL, ILB, or CB.

GutenChrist has been very active this year, so trades always remain a possibility (see Davis), but I don't see the need (or sense) to trade for any of  the above-named players.
Good or bad, the Packers are all in with Graham. There's no sense in jettisoning him now (salary considerations). If we did go after a TE, that SOB better be able to block!

Green and Parker would be huge upgrades.

I'm just not convinced that Rodgers is going to utilize a TE enough to worry about upgrading Graham.

Let's see a couple more games.  Let's also hope Gurgenoscopy has his finger on the trigger for a trade if necessary.

Ugh, never have a Gurgenosopy if you can avoid it.

 I don't need to explain a healthy AJ Green

That's because he's not healthy. 

Maybe some of the other players you mentioned would be good at the right price, but I'm a bit leery of trading for a currently injured player.  Especially with the Packers' ultraconservative timetable for bringing players back from injury.

I might agree on Green if we were getting the player from 2-3 years ago. But trading for a 31 year old guy, who missed the last half of last season with an injury (turf toe?), and trying to overcome ankle ligament injury...no thanks.

Well, this much is clear in 2 years of Gutey. Unlike Ted, he ain't sitting on his hands. He's clearly willing to make trades, release baggage, and sign FA's. 

That's a stark difference from the previous front office. 

What am I missing on Devante Parker? Seems like he’s underachieved badly for Miami, catch rate just north of 56%. Why do we want to take on someone else’s underachiever, we’ve been purging our own for 2 years. 

AJ Green is not an underachiever and would be a great addition depending on what he’s still owed and what the compensation would be. If the Bengals are paying most of the money owed and we get him for a reasonable price (Day 3 pick) then why the hell not. That’s not very realistic though, Bengals are going to want a solid price for him, probably Day 2 pick and a player.

Timmy! posted:

I might agree on Green if we were getting the player from 2-3 years ago. But trading for a 31 year old guy, who missed the last half of last season with an injury (turf toe?), and trying to overcome ankle ligament injury...no thanks.

For a 5th or 6th rounder, sure why not? But not anything more than that for an 8 game rental. 

Aaron Rodgers has NEVER had a WR the quality of AJ Green. Never in his career & I love me some Jordy

I don't give a shit he's 31 years old. He has at least 3-4 more good years left. I know he'll be healthy.

You put AJ Green on the Packer offense with that QB, that RB, Davante Adams & oh BTW....the Packer defense on the other side. Super Bowl Contender.

Boris posted:

I know he'll be healthy.

ummmmm 

Don't disagree on the need for playmakers, but think an accurate evaluation of the offense will probably require for it to be functioning a bit better. Tom appears to believe the erratic and inconsistent nature is due to personnel and I tend to believe it's more a part of learning and becoming accustomed to the new scheme. 

Tend to agree with Henry; wait a few games and see where they're at.

Patience, grasshoppers...

Tdog posted:

Boris posted:

I know he'll be healthy.

ummmmm 

He isn't NOW....but he will be & been fairly durable throughout his career.

I wanted Larry F. 3 years ago.....I want AJ Green this year. 

I think we should let our WRs develop instead of trading for someone like Green or, Heaven forbid, Dez. MVS will be a stud on offense. I see a lot of big play ability from Kumerow and Lazard, especially if they get a chance to play. ESB has tons of potential, but he is injured. I felt ESB would be our slot receiver ahead of Allison, this season. We need to get all these guys more playing time. That will be harder to do, now that we are running the ball more often. Allison fumbled the ball vs the vikings. He cannot do that. Still, he is a threat in the slot and on fly patterns. Davante has proven himself to be one of the best WRs in the game. Let the younger guys develop and give them more playing time and we'll see where they end up. Hopefully in the end zone with the ball in their hands.

The biggest thing everyone not named Adams needs to do is get open.  So far the analysis I've read says that isn't happening.  There are a few instances a game where AR doesn't see the open guy or flat out refuses to throw it to them.  But mostly they're just not getting separation.  It is early but there is only so much the scheme can help.  MVS may or may not emerge as another weapon but expecting a bunch of UDFA to provide much "threat" is asking a lot.

Yup, there's a reason Gutey drafted multiple receivers. It's a crap shoot whether they'll live up to there prior stats and the potential of their physical attributes. None of the current receivers beyond Adams offers a consistent threat and it's anybody's guess whether that will ever change. If someone's available that falls into that "playmaker" category you have to look closely.

Love AJ Green, but he's missed significant time in 4 of the last 6 seasons. 

Missed 3 games in 2014, Missed 6 games in 2016, missed 7 games in 2018, and will now miss multiple games in 2019.

Should be fresh, a young 31.  I'd go as high a a 3rd.  

I'd like to see Kumerow and Tonyan first. I hate to trade away draft assets before we know what's on our roster. It seems Kumerow gets open and Rodgers finds him, and Tonyan just seems to make plays downfield. So, let's see what they can do... this week.

mrtundra posted:

I think we should let our WRs develop instead of trading for someone like Green or, Heaven forbid, Dez. MVS will be a stud on offense. I see a lot of big play ability from Kumerow and Lazard, especially if they get a chance to play. ESB has tons of potential, but he is injured. I felt ESB would be our slot receiver ahead of Allison, this season. We need to get all these guys more playing time. That will be harder to do, now that we are running the ball more often. Allison fumbled the ball vs the vikings. He cannot do that. Still, he is a threat in the slot and on fly patterns. Davante has proven himself to be one of the best WRs in the game. Let the younger guys develop and give them more playing time and we'll see where they end up. Hopefully in the end zone with the ball in their hands.

We've been letting WR'S develop for several years, and other than Adams none have. 

excalibur posted:

mrtundra posted:

I think we should let our WRs develop instead of trading for someone like Green or, Heaven forbid, Dez. MVS will be a stud on offense. I see a lot of big play ability from Kumerow and Lazard, especially if they get a chance to play. ESB has tons of potential, but he is injured. I felt ESB would be our slot receiver ahead of Allison, this season. We need to get all these guys more playing time. That will be harder to do, now that we are running the ball more often. Allison fumbled the ball vs the vikings. He cannot do that. Still, he is a threat in the slot and on fly patterns. Davante has proven himself to be one of the best WRs in the game. Let the younger guys develop and give them more playing time and we'll see where they end up. Hopefully in the end zone with the ball in their hands.

We've been letting WR'S develop for several years, and other than Adams none have. 

This is our 2nd season with WRs MVS, ESB, Kumerow. We picked up Lazard late last season. Allison has been here longer than they have but not as much as Davante has. Not a lot of time taken to develop these guys. Throw in Moore and that's more time taken away from the other young WRs playing time. MLF needs to come up with plays that highlight their speed. If they are not getting open, I feel it is because their routes force them to slow down to wait for Rodgers to get them the ball. Have Rodgers get rid of the ball earlier, and you'll see more production from the WRs we have, especially with MVS and Kumerow and their speed.

Excalibur:
We've been letting WR'S develop for several years, and other than Adams none have. 

I don't understand this.  Here is the roster of WR's:
Geronimo Allison
Davante Adams
Marquez-Valdez Scandling
Jake Kumerow
Darius Shepherd
Alan Lazard
Equanimous St Brown

Of course, no need to examine Adams.

MVS is in his second year and so his development is a bit more than one year.  Kumerow, given the injury, has had a development time of at most half a year.  Shepherd is a rookie so his development time is a few months.  Lazard is in his second year and was on the practice squad last year.  Development time just over one year.

Which leaves Allison for which an argument can be made with respect to development time.  I thought he looked pretty good before he got injured last year though.

To me, the issue is not lengthy development times.  It is a position high on inexperienced players all of which fit the "We don't quite know what we have yet" category especially given that often receivers do not blossom until their second year of development and outside of Allison (and of course Adams), not a one is quite at that stage.

Given that none of these receivers were elite in college, it's a bit of a tenuous situation, I think.

phaedrus posted:

Excalibur:
We've been letting WR'S develop for several years, and other than Adams none have. 

I don't understand this.  Here is the roster of WR's:
Geronimo Allison
Davante Adams
Marquez-Valdez Scandling
Jake Kumerow
Darius Shepherd
Alan Lazard
Equanimous St Brown

Of course, no need to examine Adams.

MVS is in his second year and so his development is a bit more than one year.  Kumerow, given the injury, has had a development time of at most half a year.  Shepherd is a rookie so his development time is a few months.  Lazard is in his second year and was on the practice squad last year.  Development time just over one year.

Which leaves Allison for which an argument can be made with respect to development time.  I thought he looked pretty good before he got injured last year though.

To me, the issue is not lengthy development times.  It is a position high on inexperienced players all of which fit the "We don't quite know what we have yet" category especially given that often receivers do not blossom until their second year of development and outside of Allison (and of course Adams), not a one is quite at that stage.

Given that none of these receivers were elite in college, it's a bit of a tenuous situation, I think.

 

"Given that none of these receivers were elite in college, it's a bit of a tenuous situation, I think."

Lazard was really good at Iowa State. He holds a few records there. Whitewater Jesus was really good at Divison 3 Whitewater, too. ESB was good at Notre Dame. Don't know much else about MVS, Shepherd and Allison, though.

If they don't go get AJ Green, then how about Larry F from the Cardinals?

They have to help the QB with more playmakers on the outside. 

How does Belichek do it? Everyone says NE never has outstanding WRs, yet they seem to win an awful lot and Brady is regarded as one of the very best ever. So, how does NE get guys open? Or other teams with so-so WRs. When you can't do it yourself, I'm in favor of stealing ideas...

Brady consistently has all day to throw. It's been that way for years. Last season, during the playoffs, I believe he wasn't sacked ONCE. It's easy for him to make his WR's look good along with himself when you can stand there and just throw it with next to no pressure. 

It also helps when you are in a division of constant suck when you play the Dolphins and Jets year after year. Not to mention a usually bad Bills team (this year an exception). 

That's not entirely true or the reason guys are open.  You don't see Brady holding the ball for more than 3 seconds that often because he is so decisive with where the ball is going and gets rid of it on time.  It's true he could hold it longer because of his OL but that's not NE's bread and butter.  How are the short routes almost always open?  Always having a slot savant certainly helps.  The rest I couldn't say I know enough about to have any opinion.  I've seen individual play break downs of the 22 and it usually had to do with some novel use of a FB or Gronk pulling the D in one direction or another pre or just after the snap.  The OL probably also plays a role there in their coordination and selling of different looks, not just pass blocking.

Fandame posted:

How does Belichek do it? Everyone says NE never has outstanding WRs, yet they seem to win an awful lot and Brady is regarded as one of the very best ever. So, how does NE get guys open? Or other teams with so-so WRs. When you can't do it yourself, I'm in favor of stealing ideas...

I honestly think BB has done it by selling his soul to the devil.  Honestly outside of the obvious names like Brady, Gronk, Edelmen, and a few others how many Patriots can we name?  I hate them more than anyone but you have to give them props.

I heard a stat yesterday, don't recall source, that showed Brady held the ball for the least amount of time per pass play.   Think he averaged 2.2 seconds per pass. 

BrainDed posted:

I heard a stat yesterday, don't recall source, that showed Brady held the ball for the least amount of time per pass play.   Think he averaged 2.2 seconds per pass. 

And THAT, Mr. Rodgers, is how you play into your 40s. Take a lesson.

Watch the highlights from the Jets game.   It's typically him completing the drop and then immediately pulling the trigger.    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...4&feature=onebox

Thanks, BD. Watching the video you can see how Brady pulls the trigger immediately before DBs have a chance to react. Ball is gone typically long before WRs make their break, just when they have that couple of yards of separation before the DB catches on to the route. Didn't they used to praise Rodgers for the same thing a number of years ago? Didn't matter who it was, the ball was out earlier...

i think AR pays way too much attention to not turning the ball over which is a good thing. Many times you hear there is nobody open but if you watch any other game, you see the Qb throw to covered receivers and many of those receivers make a play and they come down with the ball. Maybe Rodgers does not feel his receivers can win a contested ball and he does not want a turnover. I dont know. He used to fit a ball into any window available and now he doesnt even take a chance or give his players a chance. Last year he threw two interceptions when both bounced off his receivers hands. Maybe those two has him gun shy. 

Yup.   I imagine Mr. Rodgers stashes all his money under his mattress as his risk tolerance is off the charts low.  

It's working out well for us with this new Defense.   At some point in the season we are going to need him to let it fly and chances are he will and he will with success.  

The Heckler posted:

Fandame posted:

How does Belichek do it? Everyone says NE never has outstanding WRs, yet they seem to win an awful lot and Brady is regarded as one of the very best ever. So, how does NE get guys open? Or other teams with so-so WRs. When you can't do it yourself, I'm in favor of stealing ideas...

I honestly think BB has done it by selling his soul to the devil.  Honestly outside of the obvious names like Brady, Gronk, Edelmen, and a few others how many Patriots can we name?  I hate them more than anyone but you have to give them props.

They may have the best offensive line coach in NFL history, Dante Scarnecchia. Except for 2 seasons when he was still a consultant with the team, he's been the head OL coach since 1999. He's been continuously employed as an NFL Assistant Coach since 1982. He's a big part of the reason that Brady can sit back there like a statue 

Adam Vinatieri is a HOF lock. There's probably 2 fewer rings without him. 

On the defensive side, Ty Law is already in the Hall of Fame. Guys like Richard Seymour, Lawyer Milloy, Vince Wolfork, and Rodney Harrison are all strong candidates. 

And then Belichick is the master of taking guys that have fallen out of favor or worn out their welcome in other places and using them for a 1-2 year period (and then discarding them quickly). Randy Moss, Revis, Corey Dillon, Junior Seau, etc. 

That is an incredibly short list considering how long their run has been.  Not to mention the most recent name has been out of the league for several years.