not good. 3 - 14......and guess who is in the lead, it’s not Bucky.
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say Goldie, what ever happened to our shut down defense ????
27-11 Boilers
Watched a recap of the 2014 - 2015 seasons.....the final four and championship games last night on the B10 network. I forget how really fun and good that team was. Gonna be awhile before we have that kind of a team again.
Overmatched, overrun, underwhelming.
This team is in shambles. Barry cannot let this season go unaddressed. If Tony Bennett is even remotely interested, pay him...
Oh for Gods sake. Gards job is not in jeopardy. He's playing with 1/2 a deck right now. Give the kids a chance to grow. Now if you want to talk about Jason Kidd, he should have been gone years ago. He really sucks. Has everything he wants and is still a loser.
They weren’t winning with a full crew... why would you think they’d be better otherwise?
You're seeing Bo in Gard, and it’s not the same. You can’t ignore the lack of development. They’ve regressed. Staying with Gard looks like more of the mediocre same.
It sucks- I’m sure Gard’s a great dude, but he’s not on the Ryan level as a coach of players. Gard succeeded with the talent Ryan had developed. Gard recruited them, but Ryan made them Badgers.
We all got spoiled. Every year we saw guys leave- and Ryan would coach up the next class and win. We expected that this time, too. But they didn’t get that coaching the last 2 years. Look at Hayes- did he get better? No. Has anyone gotten better under Gard? Happ is the same guy he was- still can’t shoot, can’t shoot a FT. He’s the same player- talented, but no marked improvement. And the lack of development on the 2015 class is pretty obvious. 2 3 star guys and a 4 star Guy. In the past they’d keep on winning. Now? They look like they’ve never played basketball at a high level before.
The program is ripe for an overhaul. Barry should pull the trigger before they waste more seasons figuring out what we now know.
Ryan's final recruiting classes are biting the club now. Let's see how these kids pan out.
It could be just as much of a problem that they miss Gard in his old role as they miss Ryan. Who is assigned to do the things that Gard did for Bo?
Goldie posted:Watched a recap of the 2014 - 2015 seasons.....the final four and championship games last night on the B10 network. I forget how really fun and good that team was. Gonna be awhile before we have that kind of a team again.
They had two NBA lottery picks and three other guys who are playing in the NBA G league right now (Hayes, Koenig, and Dukan). Through good fortune and hard work they essentially a Kentucky/Duke roster for those 2 years. The fact that they did this without getting one and dones is almost unbelievable in retrospect.
Having Dekker stay in state was huge (the equivalent of having Herro stay next year), but the chances of getting another player like Kaminsky who went from playing 2 minutes a game as a freshman to the best college player in the country are close to zero.
Haas is a mountain, but he's not developed into anything more of a player than when he was a freshman
I don't advocate getting rid of Gard, but this team looks pretty bad. No need for Barry to pull hard on the choke chain yet BUT if there are empty seats and no improvement after next year.....back to Cobb.
Music City posted:The program is ripe for an overhaul. Barry should pull the trigger before they waste more seasons figuring out what we now know.
O.K. Lets bring in a Rick Pitino type. Let's see how fast we can dirty up the program. Or how about a Bob Huggins type, a guy who graduates less than 10% of his players. No, then lets go with a Roy "Gol durn it" Williams and his one and done guys.
The beauty of Badger Basketball has been the development of the guys. You fault Happ's FT shooting, that he is not improving. Hell, I see NBA players that shoot a worse FT% than he does. The rest of the guy are just kids. Give them a chance to grow and learn.
Amen.
I don't feel dirty supporting UW...and I don't want to start.
ammo posted:O.K. Lets bring in a Rick Pitino type. Let's see how fast we can dirty up the program. Or how about a Bob Huggins type, a guy who graduates less than 10% of his players. No, then lets go with a Roy "Gol durn it" Williams and his one and done guys.
The beauty of Badger Basketball has been the development of the guys. You fault Happ's FT shooting, that he is not improving. Hell, I see NBA players that shoot a worse FT% than he does. The rest of the guy are just kids. Give them a chance to grow and learn.
Couple things:
1) I don’t recall hearing anyone advocate hiring a replacement coach like either of the piss poor examples you cited. In fact, the only name mentioned (by me) was Tony Bennett. You don’t like Tony Bennett???? Is he a cheater???
2) Your second paragraph basically repeats what I already said about what historically has happened at UW under Ryan. Except you left out that the players are not developing under Gard.
I guess it isn’t hard to overlook- a week ago I talked about the class of 2015 and how it could “cost Gard his job”. I wasn’t blaming Gard, I was thinking it was the players. But I looked deeper- it isn’t that they weren’t talented, it’s that they weren’t getting better. I cited a couple prominent examples in Hayes and Happ- both were impact players as Freshmen, who pretty much never (or haven’t) gotten better as they got older. Hayes noticeably regressed- that’s not debatable. Then look at Koenig- if you really look at it, he was the same player as a Senior as he was as a Freshman (just with more time to have the ball). And they carried the mail the last 2 years (and Showalter).
But let’s look further- let's look deeper at that class of 2015. Two 3 star guys, Pritzl, who was a 4 Star guy, and the other guy Van Vliet. Everyone liked what they saw as Freshmen. I was particularly impressed with Iverson, who I saw could be another Alando Tucker. But...
None of them have gotten better, and Van Vliet can’t even get on the floor. Ilikainen played himself out of the rotation, Iverson plays like he’s still a Freshman. Pritzl at times looks like a poor man’s Aaron Moesch- and he was supposed to be a pure scorer with “in the gym” range.
So I don’t think it’s a giant leap to state that the problem in the program isn’t the talent or the recruiting- it’s the development. The evidence was hiding in plain sight. I don’t agree with your “wait and see” approach. We’ve seen that movie before on the Packers side. There’s a lesson to learn there... and as it pertains to the Badgers, the whole program is at stake, not just one player and coach’s legacies.
Barry needs to see Gard like he saw Anderson on the football side. Cut Gard loose and bring in a Prodigal Son to put things back on track... that’s what the football program needed- and it’s what the basketball program needs now.
I will be the first to admit that I haven't followed much Badger basketball yet and am just now catching up with things. But hasn't this team been hit really hard by injuries?
I think there are times where a program will suffer a down year especially when you have a recruiting class that doesn't pan out. I think Barry understands this and I just can't see him making a move on from Gard just yet.
I like Tony, he's got a pretty good gig and paycheck in Va, has he given any indication that he wants back? Is Bucky BB a step up for him?
Tony isn't going anywhere
Pikes Peak posted:I like Tony, he's got a pretty good gig and paycheck in Va, has he given any indication that he wants back? Is Bucky BB a step up for him?
Well look at Roy Williams- he was already a national power at Kansas... why go to UNC? Is UW a step up? Well, I’m sure only if UW a paid him that way. And then commits the recruiting budget accordingly. Barry should want to do this- you have everything else in place. Great facility, national profile, monster conference.
I don’t know who’s willing to go. I’m sure money talks. Can Shaka Smart be lured back to Wisconsin? Maybe an up and coming assistant.
I just do not believe anything is going to change with Gard- and if the wait too long, the program will no longer have the profile. It’ll be a wasteland again. I’ve lost faith in Gard’s ability to coach.
The Heckler posted:I will be the first to admit that I haven't followed much Badger basketball yet and am just now catching up with things. But hasn't this team been hit really hard by injuries?
I think there are times where a program will suffer a down year especially when you have a recruiting class that doesn't pan out. I think Barry understands this and I just can't see him making a move on from Gard just yet.
Agreed. They were going to have a down year even before the injuries, but then they lost 2 of their best 3 guards (and probably 2 of their top 4 players overall). Their remaining top 3 guard is a freshman playing with a shoulder harness.
Trice is a promising player who should be a double figure scorer for them. Kobe King was a freshman 10 games into his career, but he was probably their 4th best player. Davidson has been fine, but I don't think we'll see how good he can be until he's fully healthy next year.
With King and Trice they started out 4-6 which looks bad, but they played what turned out to be an even tougher schedule than they thought at the time. 3 of those losses were to teams currently in the top 25 (Virginia, Xavier, and OSU); 2 others were to likely NCAA tournament teams (Baylor is 12-6 and UCLA is 13-5), and to Temple on the road. Last year's team would have lost at least 2 or 3 of those games. Only the OSU game was a blow out.
Then they lose those those 2 guards and get blown out by Marquette, struggle in a couple of what should be easy games, and then somehow beat Indiana without Trice, King, and Pritzl. They lost the last 3 games.
I think if King and Trice don't get hurt, they beat Rutgers and Nebraska. They'd then be sitting at 11-8 (4-2 in the Big 10) and things don't look so bleak.
They have 12 games left plus the Big 10 tournament (assume 1 game). It's likely they go something like 4-9 or 3-10 in those games and tend up at 13-20. That looks bad, but if Trice and King don't get hurt they probably go something like 7-6 in those 13 games, end up at 18-14, play in the NIT and there's some optimism.
I also disagree about Happ not improving. I think it's hard to assess when he's the only healthy, good player they have. If Happ comes back next year with Trice, King, a healthy Davison, Reuvers, and perhaps a new contributor, this team should look pretty good and Happ may not be the entire focus on the opposing defense.
I think we just have to accept the fact that the Iverson, Illikainen, C. Thomas, Pritzl, Van Vliet class was a dud. If Gard still struggles next year, then the seat will get pretty hot.
Why do we keep seeing "If Happ comes back."
Where do people think he is going to go?
probably in two years
Nice summary michiganpacker. After so much success for so long some just can't stand a down year for whatever the reasons may be. Somebody always has to be blamed.
MichiganPacker posted:The Heckler posted:I think there are times where a program will suffer a down year especially when you have a recruiting class that doesn't pan out. I think Barry understands this and I just can't see him making a move on from Gard just yet.
Agreed. They were going to have a down year even before the injuries, but then they lost 2 of their best 3 guards (and probably 2 of their top 4 players overall). Their remaining top 3 guard is a freshman playing with a shoulder harness.
A down year? Come on guys... a down year for a quality program is a lower seed and a first round exit. Ryan had a few of those.
This isn’t a down year... it’s a collapse. And the loss as of a freshman with a handful of games and a sophomore G who wasn’t playing particularly well anyway is the straw that somehow broke the camel’s back?
I think you’re in denial... and I think it is a mistake to keep him around to find out what we already know.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Why do we keep seeing "If Happ comes back."
Where do people think he is going to go?
I think he's coming back, but I wouldn't blame him if he got his degree and wanted to start making some money overseas. He'll already be 23 before he plays professionally if he comes back next year.
They played a little more "angry" last night. Ill sucks, of course, but certainly a good night for Bucky
😤😳 @iverson_khalil 😳😤pic.twitter.com/xN960uBus6
— Wisconsin Basketball (@BadgerMBB) January 20, 2018
Charlie sees the floor for the last minute, AVV can't get on the floor in 25 point win. I guess we can assume Andy's run at UW is over.
Alex Illikainen had played one minute in UW’s first five Big Ten games but built off his 16 minutes against Purdue with 22 quality minutes, three points, 1 assist, 1 block and no turnovers vs. Illinois. He finished +20 on the scoresheet
— Benjamin Worgull (@TheBadgerNation) January 20, 2018
They did look better. Hope they can string a few good performances together.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Charlie sees the floor for the last minute, AVV can't get on the floor in 25 point win. I guess we can assume Andy's run at UW is over.
Alex Illikainen had played one minute in UW’s first five Big Ten games but built off his 16 minutes against Purdue with 22 quality minutes, three points, 1 assist, 1 block and no turnovers vs. Illinois. He finished +20 on the scoresheet
— Benjamin Worgull (@TheBadgerNation) January 20, 2018
I think the real indication of what they think of Thomas is that they had Reuvers lose his redshirt year because they needed him to play this year. That had nothing to do with injuries (which were all in the backcourt).