Bucks were clearly overconfident coming in, and especially after that 3rd quarter. Hope they’ve learned their lesson.
This game is 90% on Lillard. He was dog shit for most of the game. Be better.
Give Indiana their flowers they beat Boston and Milwaukee. Problem is, the playoffs ain’t the NCAA tournament. Pacers would be lucky to win 2 games against either team in 7 game series but that’s not what this is about.
@Cheezers posted:Middleton with a killer TO.
What kind of set are they running there? Don't they have a plan for how to bring the ball up down the stretch.
Griffin sits and twiddles his thumbs. He's just so overmatched in these types of game. Unless Dame hits a bunch of 3s (which he does a lot) they have nothing called. Somehow Beasley is taking crunch time shots? That's when the opposing coach is making your worst player on the floor beat you.
The bigger long term problem is Portis. He can't play in this system and it shows. I love the guy's energy, but if you are going to go with Griffin, he's not really a 6th man anymore. He's more of the 8th or 9th guy.
128-119 Pacers win. Bucks should feel ashamed for their lackluster play, tonight.
Media will overreact as they do and think Indiana is the favorite in the East. Try 6 or 7 seed.
Bucks get shut down in the clutch by the worst defensive team in the league.
Adrian Griffin is the one who shut down Giannis and Dame.
If your plan is to play Portis and have him get worked on defense and score 10 points then trade him to Chicago for Caruso.
Or package him and Pat C to Memphis for Marcus Smart.
Classic game of disrespecting your opponent. The Bucks played hard under Bud. We look like a SUPERTEAM where everyone thinks they are going to win, all they need is to step on the court. They will go far with their talent, but I think Griffin is a joke. I don't see a disciplined team. I don't see a coach who is going to hold his players accountable. I am sure we lead the league in lay ups after a made shot by us. That says it all.
@Tschmack posted:Media will overreact as they do and think Indiana is the favorite in the East. Try 6 or 7 seed.
But I don't think the Bucks are the 1 or 2 seed either as presently constituted. The Celtics and Bucks are similar in that the coaches are "just guys" and don't really do much. They aren't terrible, but they don't add anything. The players love that, but Spoelstra, Carlisle, and Nurse make a difference on their teams. If you put one of those guys on the Bucks or Celtics, that's your runaway Eastern Conference champs. You could see where the momentum turned in the first half. Giannis sat down with the Bucks up about 5 or 6. The Pacers then put on a backcourt trap to force the ball out of Dame's hands and the Bucks had no idea what to do. That's when they got out of a rhythm and the Pacers went up. Obviously, the Bucks came back in the third, basically because Dame went off, but if they had not fallen down by 12 in the first half, that run by Dame would have put them up double digits instead of just one or two possessions and that made a difference. A good coach would have had the Bucks prepared for that, called timeout to discuss how to attack it, or subbed someone in to counteract it. Griffin just sat and twiddled his thumbs for about 5 possessions.
However, coaching notwithstanding, the Bucks lost tonight mainly because their bench (and Beasley) were pathetic. I'm not sure what they can do with Bobby at this point. I think they have to trade him.
@Tschmack posted:Give Indiana their flowers they beat Boston and Milwaukee. Problem is, the playoffs ain’t the NCAA tournament. Pacers would be lucky to win 2 games against either team in 7 game series but that’s not what this is about.
Carlisle had his team schemed to go against the Bucks.
Griffin went to a 2-3 zone which did slow the game down, but then allowed Carlisle to dictate who was taking shots for the Bucks.
Also, they should fine Cam Payne for his idiotic technical at the start of the 4th. You are a minimum salary player for a reason - you suck. STFU and play hard.
The game got away to start the 4th as well. Not sure why you sit Giannis and Dame and go with Beauchamp, Payne, and Portis at the same time. Stagger Giannis and Dame.
The first 4 possessions of the 4th were Payne missed 3, Payne missed 3, Beauchamp 0 for 2 from the line, and Beauchamp 1 for 2 from the line.
The part I will agree with is if Griffin doesn’t start using better substitutions he’s going to get canned.
At one point he had Middleton and Lopez and backups in there at the same time what!?!?!?
@Tschmack posted:The part I will agree with is if Griffin doesn’t start using better substitutions he’s going to get canned.
At one point he had Middleton and Lopez and backups in there at the same time what!?!?!?
I think he has to leave either Lopez or Giannis in at all times. With both of them, they might be the best interior defensive team in the league. With one of them, they are at least average. Without both, they have nobody to offer rim protection at all. Portis is a 6'11" instant offense guy usually, but he offers almost nothing on defense. Robin Lopez is on the "you sign my brother too and I'll play for you" plan the Bucks go with. They have don't have another big they can play.
FML 🤬 That sucked🫤
Thank God I actually forgot this game was on today. I turned it on right when the game ended.
So not having seen the whole game I can’t make too many comments. There is one thing noticeable from stats other than the poor bench numbers and poor numbers from Beasley. Brook Lopez 3-10 from 3 point land is something that really jumped out to me.
To me any offense that’s ending up in Brook Lopez taking ten 3-pointers is just very poorly designed or very poorly run unless the guy is having an incredibly hot night which does occasionally happen. But it’s obvious tonight wasn’t one of his really on nights and I think it’s foolhardy to waste him outside that often where he can’t help with rebounding.
Losing this game isn’t the end of the world but I think we all agree some things will need to change before end of season for the Bucks to win Championship #3. Getting Crowder and Pat C back healthy would help but there was shaky play even when they had those guys. Let’s hope Griffin and Horst can figure things out before it’s too late.
@The Crusher posted:Classic game of disrespecting your opponent. The Bucks played hard under Bud. We look like a SUPERTEAM where everyone thinks they are going to win, all they need is to step on the court. They will go far with their talent, but I think Griffin is a joke. I don't see a disciplined team. I don't see a coach who is going to hold his players accountable. I am sure we lead the league in lay ups after a made shot by us. That says it all.
This gave me flashbacks of Ray Rhodes...
@The Crusher posted:Classic game of disrespecting your opponent. The Bucks played hard under Bud. We look like a SUPERTEAM where everyone thinks they are going to win, all they need is to step on the court. They will go far with their talent, but I think Griffin is a joke. I don't see a disciplined team. I don't see a coach who is going to hold his players accountable. I am sure we lead the league in lay ups after a made shot by us. That says it all.
I said the same thing about a week ago.
This team half-asses it too much, and that’s an obvious show that they don’t respect the head coach.
My point about Lopez and Middleton is that players now hunt Middleton defensively and for how good Indiana is with moving with and without the ball that’s a recipe for disaster.
Jackson Jr should have played most of the game, period. Lopez isn’t as effective against teams like this that play small ball. Indiana’s guards are way too quick off the dribble to allow Lopez time to recover unless he’s near the rim.
Then there’s the story that apparently Bobby Portis got into it with Griffin and teammates in the locker room after the game. I’m sure he’s frustrated about his role being diminished but he’s playing like crap and against a team like Indiana Portis is pretty much unplayable because he can’t defend anyone.
I’ll go on record now that either Portis or Griffin or maybe both won’t be with this team by end of the year. This is now at least the third example of someone publicly questioning Griffin and Portis just doesn’t fit anymore. If Milwaukee can flip him for a 3 and D guy I think that’s likely to happen.
As for Griffin, it might be unprecedented to fire a guy during the year but more and more he just looks like he’s in over his head. At some point this all may come to a head.
Whoever leaked the Portis comments afterwards to Chris Haynes at Bleacher Report clearly wants something to happen. Griffin looks completely impotent. The comments from Portis, Giannis, and Dame sound really bad. We'll see how Griffin responds to this. The Bucks are still on pace to win 55 games, so it's hard to fire a coach with that type of record, but it's pretty cleadt Griffin is overmatched right now. He may be an OK coach some day, but this is not the type of team to get your first head coaching job with. The players wanted a former player (at least Giannis did), but it's one thing having Jason Kidd as your coach vs. Griffin. Jason Kidd did some ridiculous stuff in terms of scheme, but guys will listen to him because he's a HOFer. Griffin was a bench scrub his entire career and average 4 points a game. Why would two of the top 75 players ever (as well as all-stars like Middleton and Lopez) listen to him?
It would be almost unprecedented to fire Griffin, but there is one example where a coach got fired midseason with even more success. The Lakers were 11-7 in 1981 and less than 18 months removed from winning a title in 1979-80. Paul Westhead was the coach when they won the title and that year, but Magic Johnson went to ownership and got him fired. The Lakers hired Pat Riley, so it worked out well. It's interesting that Riley was a bench scrub as a player, just like Griffin, but it's not working well right now in Milwaukee. They are going to win games no matter who is coaching, so they are unlikely to go on a long losing streak that would force the issue.
I think Portis may get shipped out in response to this, though.
Here's the article and some of the quotes.
https://bleacherreport.com/art...urnament-elimination
Portis was upset about the lack of organization down the stretch, as the Bucks were outscored 15-7 over the final 2:40. Per Haynes, Portis said that while the team has to execute better, the coaching staff has to put them in a position to succeed. Griffin was receptive to the criticism and acknowledged he has to be better.
One busted offensive possession that proved to be severely costly came with two minutes left in the contest and the Bucks down three.
Myles Turner had just tipped in a shot and Giannis Antetokounmpo proceeded to inbound the ball to Khris Middleton. Damian Lillard came over to retrieve the ball, but Middleton motioned for the guard to run opposite so he could bring the ball up the court.
Lillard, likewise, admitted they weren't on the same page:
"The play with Khris, he got the ball on the inbound and I was just running up the opposite slot, and you know, we didn't really have a play call, you know, so I was standing opposite him and I didn't know if he was going to attack or what."
Giannis: "We have to be more organized. We have to know what we are trying to get down the stretch.
Here's the sequence referenced above. Griffin actually turned away from the court and went to sit down. He wasn't even looking at the court as they brought the ball up.
https://twitter.com/BucksFilmR.../1733099024339657169
Here's the sequence that broke the Bucks. Neither Khris nor Giannis box Turner out. Middleton waves off Lillard and Bucks don't know what they're running. You can see Griff going to sit down on the bench and not giving his team direction. No Bucks hustle back after turnover.
It would seem that a guy like Portis would have a motivation to leak the story. He’s getting phased out and he’s their emotional leader so I’m sure he’s frustrated.
In no way, shape, or form should Middleton be bringing the ball up in a critical situation given his mediocre ball handling skills. Was Griffin not watching the game? Khris had several turnovers during the game already.
@Tschmack posted:It would seem that a guy like Portis would have a motivation to leak the story. He’s getting phased out and he’s their emotional leader so I’m sure he’s frustrated.
In no way, shape, or form should Middleton be bringing the ball up in a critical situation given his mediocre ball handling skills. Was Griffin not watching the game? Khris had several turnovers during the game already.
There is an argument schematically for not having Dame bring the ball up in those situations. It would be that it you have someone else bring it up, they can't trap Dame at the half court line and force the ball out of his hands and get the shot clock under 10 by the time he gets it back. Instead, you have Middleton or Giannis bring it up and then initiate the offense through them to get Dame the ball in a position where it's harder to trap him. I had assumed that's why they did what they did. To hear the players had no idea what their strategy was in those situations is as bad an indictment you can have of the head coach. Middleton brought the ball up and actually had a step on his defender, but instead of continuing and forcing Giannis' defender to stop him, he just stopped his dribble. Everyone just stood around because no one knew what the offensive set was supposed to be.
If you are the head coach, call timeout at that point when you know things are headed south. Don't sit on the bench like you are Jack Nicholson watching as a fan.
@Tschmack posted:In no way, shape, or form should Middleton be bringing the ball up in a critical situation given his mediocre ball handling skills. Was Griffin not watching the game? Khris had several turnovers during the game already.
Amen to this. I'd rather have Giannis bring it up instead of Middleton.
One of two things will happen .....Griffin is gone or Portis will get traded
Griffin seems like the easier decision of the two, but who to replace him?
@H5 posted:
Griffin seems like the easier decision of the two, but who to replace him?
It's not going to happen, but Budenholzer would be a very good coach for this type of team. Giannis clearly didn't want Bud anymore and Griffin might have been a better fit with Holiday/Jevon Carter. But, Bud is a better fit for a Lillard-led backcourt.
He was the winningest coach over the last 5 seasons and obviously won a title. But there were three main criticisms of him.
1. His teams were eliminated in the playoffs because unless Middleton became prime Kevin Durant (like in the 2021 run), they couldn't generate crunch time half court offense. The first option was Giannis driving and kicking, but teams took Middleton catch and shoot away and made the "other" wing player hit shots. Bledsoe and Holiday both were terrible on offense in the playoffs. The second option was Middleton isolation - which worked in 2021 when he basically morphed into Kevin Durant.
2. Despite having one of the best perimeter defensive guards in NBA history in Holiday (and with Bledsoe also being an all-NBA defensive player), he played a passive drop defense that gave up easy midrange shots. This was fine against 80% of the NBA, but not against Jayson Tatum, Kawhi Leonard, or Jimmy Butler.
3. Related to #1, his offensive got stagnant since he sent guys to the same spots on the floor every time for Giannis to kick out too.
If Bud was the coach now, problem #1 wouldn't exist. Dame would either be the guy getting the kickouts (or they'd take away Dame and Middleton would get them) or you'd iso Dame, one of the best isolation players in NBA history. Criticism #3 would be less of an issue with Dame, Middleton, Beasley, and Lopez out there (instead of Bledsoe or playoff Holiday)
In terms of criticism #2, the Bucks can't really play aggressive defense anymore anyway with their personnel on the perimeter, so you are forced to play a passive drop defense (or 2-3 zone like Griffin). And you are betting that your crunch time offense is going to be much better, so you can afford to be more passive.
@Boris posted:One of two things will happen .....Griffin is gone or Portis will get traded
The lack of any picks to add as sweeteners for these deals make it unlikely, but here are some options in the NBA trade machine.
1. Portis for washed up PJ Tucker (who isn't playing at all in LA works).
2. It's not going to happen, but the Warriors could use a post-up player and veteran depth in this 2 for 1.
3. Bulls aren't going to do this straight up, but maybe if you throw in Jackson or Beauchamp?
4. A Memphis deal that gets them Smart and a cheap inside defender/rebounder. Again, no picks to sweeten it.
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I like the last one.
I don't like Smart, but if I could stand that ex Dook player being on the team for a couple years, I could stomach Smart. 
The thing about Smart is he’d be an emotional leader replacement for Portis. With Lillard, you don’t need Portis and his 10-15 points per game and he’s a complete liability on defense.
For a younger team like Memphis or Sacramento he’d be a good fit and once Ja Morant returns I’m not sure where Smart fits.
He’s talking Marcus, not Shaka. Simmer down, Goldie! 😅 If they could get Smart, that’d be an ideal fit for the current roster build.
Had a chance to catch up on some Bucks related news, and I would highly recommend the latest Bill Simmons podcast and Eric Nehm (Athletic) article.
While Simmons is a well know Celtics honk, he did give some biting commentary about the friction and poor chemistry going on between the players and Griffin. In particular, he mentioned several examples during the Indiana game where Giannis became visibly annoyed at Griffin. During timeouts apparently 34 didn’t make much of an effort to involve himself in the huddle. In one sequence, Griffin subbed him out on an Indiana FT attempt and Giannis walked right past Griffin near half court and glared at him going past.
Uh oh.
Simmons also surmised that the Giannis post game rant was directly solely at some of the substitutions and effort from the younger guys. That might sum up why Portis was annoyed.
As for Eric Nehm, he was openly critical of Griffin and inability to draw up or coach up Giannis and Dame more often (and effectively) in spacing for pick and rolls. Ironically, the guy who would have been really good at that on the staff was Terry Stotts. I also wonder how Coach Bud would have fared with this group.
These aren’t media types that are going out of their way to character assassin the Bucks and their coaching staff. Simmons has said at times in his past he admires and respects Milwaukee and Nehm has covered the Bucks a long time.
Not that anyone cares what Steven A Smith says, but he basically stopped short of saying Griffin is on the hot seat in an exchange with JJ Redick later this week. That’s a bit eye opening even for a blowhard like SAS.
Independent of Portis and their defensive issues this team has some major problems and if things don’t get turned around I wouldn’t be shocked if they canned Adrian Griffin.
I think the problems are so obvious to even the casual fan, that a move needs to be made immediately. Did Horst make the Griffin hire? What an immense mistake to make when you’re spending massive coin on 3 players in win-now mode. There’s no time for Griffin to learn on the job here. Hire Stotts today.
I mean, I was sort of pushing for Nick Nurse and Rick Carlisle would have been a fantastic hire. Frank Vogel would look like Phil Jackson compared to Griffin.
I don’t think it’s fair to Griffin, a defensive guy that’s never been a head coach, to step into a championship or bust situation like this. I mean, Boston is in a slightly better situation with Mazzulla, but that team has issues as well executing in key moments.
The Bucks are on pace to win 56 games. I think they made a poor decision to hire Griffin, but Bud averaged 54 wins the last two years.
You could argue they fired Bud based on one game, or really the last 5 seconds of regulation and the last 10 seconds of overtime in Game 5 of the Heat series. And, really it was three decisions in the 5:10 of game time. The Lopez substitution before the Butler lob, the failure to call timeout with 0.5 seconds left in regulation, and letting Grayson Allen eurostep the season away with a timeout left and over 10 seconds on the possession.
What Griffin has done isn't quite that bad in terms of situational basketball, but it's getting close.