Packers (and Hawk) good at tackling

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Originally posted by 18c3v:
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No mention of how far downfield the tackles were made...

If only he had a decent NT in front of him. He'd make that tackle 5 yards down the field instead of 9.

Being unable to get in position to tackle the ball carrier really helps lower the amount of broken tackles a defensive player makes.

I want to see "most tackles run away from'....Tramon Williams has got to win that one!

That's like Wade Boggs' fielding percentage. You can't whiff what you can't get to.

on PFF, Hawk has a really good run stop %. Meaning a large portion of the tackles he makes result in an offensive failure. Which means they're not being made 9 yards downfield... He's also Top 10 in tackling efficiency, making 20 tackles for every 1 he misses, ...which means Hawks is a decent 2-down ILB.

blasphemy.

I know what I see when watching the games.

Just a guy.

Obviously, you see things differently than the coaches. There is a reason that the guys making the decisions are coaches and your watching the games on your TV.

It's been obvious for quite a while that TT and the coaches Like Hawk a whole lot better than I do. Doesn't change my opinion of him, however.

Agree Russ, but it was also the Packer braintrust that gave Hawk the option of a substantial pay cut, or the door.

I think everyone sees roughly the same thing. Accountable, available, serviceable.

He plays fine for a 5th round pick. Wait, what?!?!

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Just a guy.

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Accountable, available, serviceable

pretty much the definition of a 2-down ILB....

i'm not saying he's Ray Nitschke. but numbers never lie...

Chili, True about the pay cut, good point. My point, as I am sure everyone realizes, is that MM and Dan Compers think that Hawk is one of the best ILB's on the team, contrary to what most on this board think.

It sucks to have a guy who is Accountable, available, and serviceable over an 7-8 year time span.

Hawk's availability has been his saving grace. With the Packers recent rash of injuries on defense the past few years, an average player that doesn't get hurt is very valuable.

Great to see such a big improvement in tackling from 2011 to 2012. They were one of the worst tackling teams in '11, and one of the best in '12. The problem that still remains is that they didn't even have a chance to make a tackle (or miss one) against Adrian Peterson and Colin Kaepernick nearly every time they touched the ball. With the exception of Tramon Williams's arm-tackling act against Peterson, the defense rarely seemed to be within 5 yards of those guys. Arm tackles, broken tackles and whiffs would be an upgrade against those two players.

Whatever, we gave up 579 yards in SF last year. This guy is your core ILB. Hasn't caused a turnover in two years I believe?
Mediocrity won't win you Championships.

AJ Hawk is not the "core" ILB. He played about 60-70% of the snaps in every game on defense last year. He's a 2-down ILB.

If the DL and the OLBs (hopefully, Perry will be an every-down player from day 1) not named Matthews look good next year, then Hawk will look competent (probably luck his way into a couple turnovers even). That's all they can ever expect out of him. He'll never be a difference maker, but he can be a solid presence if if the guys around him are above-average players, like in 2010.

quote:

Originally posted by 18c3v:
Football Outsiders


No mention of how far downfield the tackles were made...

Yep, that pretty much says it all. Hawk usually get the tackle 6-7 yards past the line of scrimmage. He really needs to stuff more plays.

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Hasn't caused a turnover in two years I believe?

I want somebody who doesn't fumble, especially un punt-returns when you're up on the road in a playoff game.

Oh wait, you're talking about a defensive player not forcing a fumble.

Hawk is too slow to get out of the way there by putting himself in position to tackle/trip runner going over him. Like a hurdle...

Thoughts.

A tall hurdle.

Hawk is serviceable & available & flexible with his salary. I'd call him more of a 1 down LB'er. He's too slow to cover, too slow to "fill" the hole & tackles falling backward 5 yards downfield. He's basically a bigger version of Jarrett Bush.

You can win with guys like Hawk & Bush as long as you have above average/elite players around them

Our core ILB is Desmond Bishop. Adrian Peterson & Colin Kaepernick are lucky he wasn't playing. Also Nick Perry on the outside. I can't imagine the Niners racking up 579 yards if Perry was in the game instead of Walden.

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I'd call him more of a 1 down LB'er.

Agree. 4th down... on kick coverage.

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Originally posted by Boris:
A tall hurdle.

Hawk is serviceable & available & flexible with his salary. I'd call him more of a 1 down LB'er. He's too slow to cover, too slow to "fill" the hole & tackles falling backward 5 yards downfield. He's basically a bigger version of Jarrett Bush.

You can win with guys like Hawk & Bush as long as you have above average/elite players around them

Our core ILB is Desmond Bishop. Adrian Peterson & Colin Kaepernick are lucky he wasn't playing. Also Nick Perry on the outside. I can't imagine the Niners racking up 579 yards if Perry was in the game instead of Walden.

I think Hawk is a much more capable defensive player than Bush, but you're right about having to surround him with better players. He's OK next to Bishop, but not so OK next to Jones.

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I think Hawk is a much more capable defensive player than Bush

Agree. I wasn't comparing their defensive ability, simply their "whipping boy" status on x4