@Chongo posted:- Losing Williams and Bullard was too much to overcome in 4Q
+ Mormon DeJean played his balls off
Picking Jordan Morgan instead isn't looking too good right now.
@D J posted:Lukas Van Useless is a part of that. Pressure the QB? What's that?
Right now, I'd say Van Ness is a bust. He has done nothing to impress me. It sucks because I was really happy with the Packers picking him. 
Look at the NFC playoff picture and see what teams are ahead of GB. Got beat twice by the Lions, got beat by Philly and got beat by MN. GB is who I think they are. Injuries hurt (no pun intended) but their corner play, even when healthy, is not good. Hard to expect too much pass rush when guys are running wide open all over the field and 3/4 of the time the pass rush is just running itself out of the play. Great to imagine drafting more corners but I mean, if your eyeballs are telling you to take #21 in the first round, maybe you open the check book instead. And for as much of a meathead as Dan Cam is, I will give him...he believes in his guys and his guys usually deliver. He doesn't care about the analytics, he's there to win a f*cking game. I'd love to be wrong but I think GB is a couple years out.
Needed 1 more turn over.
Pack let Williams and Patrick go off. St. Brown really didn't do the damage, it was the other 2.
@michiganjoe posted:Game was basically lost when the Packers had to kick the FG for the tie at the end. Goff was 10-10 in the fourth quarter and nothing to indicate the Packer defense was up to the challenge.
You could feel the Packers' chances of winning, slipping away, when we had to settle for the FG, instead of getting a TD there.
@DH13 posted:It's whistling past the graveyard a bit in always saying "next year!" but there may actually be reason to believe this D will make noticeable improvements after another offseason of retooling to a 4-3. It's not "crap" right now and we've all seen them do things this year that we haven't seen in GB in a very long time. They're good right now but they still lack at least two more playmakers and some depth.
I agree. I really think for the first time in a long time there is actual hope on defense.
I think the scheme is there and the players seems to be adjusting to it quite well they just need more playmakers and some depth and if they can get that this off season I really like where they are headed. I also like that the defense is much more physical now and they aren't backing down from anyone.
But, that being said I do think they need to figure out a way to get off the damn field. For all of the improvements we are seeing they still have a tendency of giving up long drives and they go through parts of the game where they play softer and allow too many easy receptions by the opposing offense.
As for the offseason I think Gute will attack depth and playmakers on defense.
Other than the one 4th down stop and the INT, DET's O took what they wanted when they needed it. Just like at Lambeau. When you see that happening it's difficult to see a win unless your offense is shot out of a cannon and keeps the lead.
You'll see completions to the middle of the field vs pretty much any defense. It's just the way the game is played now after D's take away the deep and sideline shots while everyone else is rushing the QB or stacking for a run. It's the ones with elite LB's that limit it. Or a DL with two guys in the middle that can generate pass rush at any given time.
+ Lions will get beat in the playoffs
- I never felt like we were going to win. Lions looked like anytime they needed to score they could. Lafleur looks like he's intimidated by Campbell.
Offense is getting too much credit in this game. They only had two drives over 5 plays. Two. And Reed doesn't touch the ball? Not good enough.
Admittedly or not, this team needs a true WR1
+ I am actually impressed with the overall team effort and play given the Packers have played 3 games in just 10 days.
+ Loved the swarming mentality of the defense and the refusal to let RB's get few extra yards when stopped. Hafley has said this is something he emphasizes.
+ Team was resilient despite slow start. Excellent start to second half. That is a credit to coaches and team mentality.
- Must win the turnover battle if you are going to beat a playoff-caliber team on the road. Watson's fumble was brutal.
- Really surprised the O-line got manhandled at times by backups/scrubs. The Lions blitzes and pressure packages seemed be troublesome. Love had to move around a lot to make or attempt throws.
- LaFleur seems to be struggling to find the offense's identity. I know he wants to run a lot and Jacobs is a stud, but Jayden Reed and Tucker Kraft getting so few touches or targets is criminal. Amon-Ra St. Brown was quiet for much of game but Lions OC specifically got him involved in last drive because he is a playmaker. O-line play may have made him a little pass-shy but you have to get the ball to your playmakers somehow.
+/- The comments about Hafley's defense in the game thread are amusing. Hafley's scheme is fine but the playmakers and player fit on the defense are just not there. Gute will need to nail defensive draft picks and a few FAs to get the players that fit the scheme. P. Smiff was traded away because he was a poor fit. There are multiple players now that are not good scheme fits, mainly on DL and LB. The CB room has to be re-tooled.
++ The defense was flying to the ball through the whistle, especially in the second half; Lions players will feel it today. If anything else, this group is setting the tone that everyone tackles and they go through the end of the play. Love was good when he got going and MLF gave him better calls to get the ball out of his hand quicker. Kraft, Watson, Clark were all up for the game.
--- I don't usually gripe about refs, but I texted my son that they were wearing black and blue stripes. They not only missed the 5-yarders, but the 10s and 15s really hurt -- the deliberate hit to Love's face, the ball long gone from Love's hand and the roll over and hit to the turf, X losing his helmet, the holding in the picture, and on and on. Another big hurt was Watson's fumble. GB finally gets on a roll and looks like they'll cash in and he lost it. Sometimes, it's better to do a Randy Moss and hit the turf rather than open yourself to injury flying through the air and risk losing the ball.
--- That said, this D has to be better on second and third down when playing these guys, and where on the field they force that fourth down. Of the five Detroit went for, three were fourth-and-one (or inches); they made two. On the other two where they were successful, they were on the GB 2- and 3-yard line; that's low risk/high reward at that spot on the field and at home. Stop them further up the field and he probably punts. Another team may take the FG, but they have to know that Campbell won't.
--- Losing Bullard, Williams, and Ja and Coop not out there all hurt, but it's that time of year, too.
Overall, I was pleasantly surprised. I expected Detroit to romp all over GB at their house. While I think Detroit felt like they were in no real danger, it also showed that GB wasn't going to roll over and play dead. GB took the sound out of the crowd in the fourth quarter and if I'm not mistaken, I thought I heard some "Go Pack Go" chants over my TV?
GB lost to a very good (Great?) team on the road and are 9-4 on the season with a playoff birth all but sealed up. This has been a successful season so far considering the injuries to date and I think GB can beat anybody in the league going forward. Will they? Probably not... but they are sitting in a very good spot.
Like a few have said, GB is likely 1 or 2 years away from really competing for a SB. Bitching about the refs is a losing mentality. It's adversity that GB, and any other team for that matter, has to face and overcome. Let's not pretend other teams don't get a few bad/missed calls too.
Bottom line: GB is a very, very good young football team and their future is bright as fuck. Detroit happens to be a bit better at the moment. It happens.
That's crazy, rationale talk. I prefer pissed off, overreacting right now, 😆. Seriously, they won't be a solid contender until they get the right pieces for Hafley's scheme. Lack of pressure is killing them.
@Pakrz posted:GB lost to a very good (Great?) team on the road and are 9-4 on the season with a playoff birth all but sealed up. This has been a successful season so far considering the injuries to date and I think GB can beat anybody in the league going forward. Will they? Probably not... but they are sitting in a very good spot.
Like a few have said, GB is likely 1 or 2 years away from really competing for a SB. Bitching about the refs is a losing mentality. It's adversity that GB, and any other team for that matter, has to face and overcome. Let's not pretend other teams don't get a few bad/missed calls too.
Bottom line: GB is a very, very good young football team and their future is bright as fuck. Detroit happens to be a bit better at the moment. It happens.
I think the Loins area very good team, but I am not completely sold they are this unstoppable force. Sure they are rolling but I still maintain they are very beatable. Will they represent the NFC in the Super Bowl? Philly for sure and perhaps GB will have something to say about it come playoff time.
Some of this is reiterating what others have said.
Positives
1. The most important thing was that 2023 playoff Jordan Love showed up in the second half last night. That one throw to Watson where he had to dodge an blocked blitzer, step up in the pocket, and fire a laser into a small window was one that only a handful of QBs can make.
2. Kenny Clark looked like Aaron Donald last night. The guy was unblockable at times and commanded a double team.
3. Walker and McDuffie played well. They made some plays. I know they got beat a few times, but ILB might be the hardest position in the NFL to play. You have to hold up against 320 pound lineman in the run game, be able to cover guys like Gibbs out of the backfield that run 4.3 40s, and also try to cover 6'4" TEs over the middle.
4. The deep backups they had to play at CB and Safety held up OK. They didn't get the stops they needed, but they forced Detroit to convert 4th down plays to win. Joe Barry's scheme would have been dominated. Jameson Williams runs a 4.25 and never beat them deep at all. In other words, Hafley is very good. When a team has to convert 4th downs on almost all their drives to score TDs, you are doing something right. But when you are weak on the DE and they can run behind arguably the best right offensive tackle on 4th and short (Sewell) against Rashan Gary or a backup, Campbell feels pretty good about his chances of picking up 2 yards.
5. The Lions didn't really stop the Packers offense in the second half at all. The only Packer punt after the first quarter was the drive they tried the flea flicker on first down and got way behind the chains.
Negatives
1. The Packers are running out of DBs. It's hard to blame Gutey for this when you are missing 4 of your top 7 guys - Alexander, Ballentine, Bullard, and Williams. You anticipate an injury or two, not over half the secondary.
2. The Packers lack edge rushers. This is absolutely Gutey's fault. In a game where Kenny Clark was borderline dominant and demanded double teams, they could not get to Goff without bringing extra guys. Van Ness and Gary (and to a lesser extent, Wyatt) were all drafted in the first round because Gutey felt they had the athleticism to win one on one matchups. They just aren't good enough. He compounded the Gary mistake by giving out a large contract to a guy that is maybe a decent rotation player, but not a star. We all complained about Lowry a lot, but at least he was making 4-5 million a year and was a competent rotation player. Gary is getting 24 million of cap space over the next few years to get as many sacks as Preston Smith, while also being a lousy run defender (which P. Smith was very good at holding the edge). If GB needed to get better than Preston Smith, they need to get better than Gary. The Packers aren't missing anyone on the DL due to injury. This was all easily foreseen and was by almost everyone on the board.
3. As someone else said, the Packers lack a true #1 WR. Watson I guess is the guy, but he makes too many mistakes for a 3rd year guy. Reed disappeared last night - one target and no catches. The Packers offense often works because they have a bunch of B/B+ receivers and can go 5 deep with that type of talent, but their is no Pro Bowl type guy that you have to scheme to stop.
4. MLF played not to lose in the first half. It made some sense, given that Jordan Love basically lost the first Lions game with the boneheaded pick 6. However, if he'd have played the first half like they did the second, it's a different game. You could almost see the body language from him that he was relieved to start the second half and still be in striking distance.
@The Heckler posted:I think the Loins area very good team, but I am not completely sold they are this unstoppable force. Sure they are rolling but I still maintain they are very beatable. Will they represent the NFC in the Super Bowl? Philly for sure and perhaps GB will have something to say about it come playoff time.
I think if Aidan Hutchinson hadn't gotten hurt, they would be almost unbeatable,. He was on pace for over 25 sacks when he went down. He was dominant.
Give the Lions credit - when they lost him they went out and got Z. Smith - who can give you a play or two every game. Z. Smith is a downgrade from Hutchinson, but he'd be a huge upgrade at edge rusher for the Packers. (although he'd probably half ass it if he came back to Green Bay)
I also think that GB/Love/MLF missed Doubs last night. Doubs has a knack for getting open quickly on those shorter hot routes, especially across the middle, and that would have taken some of the steam out of the Detroit rush. Either MLF didn't call any or they just weren't there last night; Doubs helps that.
+ 31 points should be enough to win in this league against anyone
+ Very physical game on both sides of the ball which was fun to see. Black and Blue division is back!
- Refs
- Literally all of our rookies are now injured.
Great game though, fun to watch even with the sub par outcome.
@Pakrz posted:Like a few have said, GB is likely 1 or 2 years away from really competing for a SB. Bitching about the refs is a losing mentality. It's adversity that GB, and any other team for that matter, has to face and overcome. Let's not pretend other teams don't get a few bad/missed calls too.
Bottom line: GB is a very, very good young football team and their future is bright as fuck. Detroit happens to be a bit better at the moment. It happens.
Today, it's called "blowing off steam." 
The hit to the face on Love on the first drive could have given GB a chance to take a breath, keep the D off the field after Detoit's first long drive, etc. While we all know refs don't win or lose a game they sure can influence momentum, which can help a team or hurt them. Also, if the fouls weren't so egregious and out in the open, it's a lot easier to overlook them. We all know that TV replays give fans a better, slower view, but some of the ones they didn't call last night were blatantly in the open.
@michiganjoe posted:Game was basically lost when the Packers had to kick the FG for the tie at the end. Goff was 10-10 in the fourth quarter and nothing to indicate the Packer defense was up to the challenge.
I thought I saw in another thread that Love was clearly the better QB in the second half?
@PackLandVA posted:I thought I saw in another thread that Love was clearly the better QB in the second half?
Pitch-and-catch for Goff; OMG! for Love.
@PackLandVA posted:I thought I saw in another thread that Love was clearly the better QB in the second half?
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@mrtundra posted:You could feel the Packers' chances of winning, slipping away, when we had to settle for the FG, instead of getting a TD there.
Even if the Packers scored the TD to go up 4, does anyone really think the Lions, with 3 timeouts and a "go for it" on any fourth down wouldn't have scored a TD?? The Packers defense really couldn't stop the Lions offense for most of the game.
@Fandame posted:Pitch-and-catch for Goff; OMG! for Love.
Also tells the story of DET's WRs vs GB's. As an average of #1-5, GB might be better but DET is a notch above at #1-#3.
I don't know who the hell Tim Patrick is but he had a game last night and I believe made a few clutch catches last week vs CHI.
Dan, preach!! As he points out, the timing of the flag, NFLFU.
Volume up.
This one is tough pic.twitter.com/nFLjB7ub5r
— Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) December 6, 2024
That's a penalty but yes the flag looks way late. Pretty good Lebron imitation by the Loins player.
@PackLandVA posted:I thought I saw in another thread that Love was clearly the better QB in the second half?
For the most part, even with blitzes, Goff had a lot of time to sit back and scan the field because even when the Packers rushed 5, they couldn't get home. Detroits WRs are very good, so you have to be careful about going with zero blitzes since Jameson Williams and his 4.25 speed will kill you (similar to Christian Watson) and St. Brown is the A+ version of Reed, Wicks, or Hobbs.
My comment was based on the idea that if you switched QBs last night, Love is good enough to also win the game for Detroit, but Goff wouldn't have had a chance to do what Love did because he doesn't have the same mobility in the pocket.
Goff makes all the right reads and is very accurate if he doesn't have to move his feet, but how many throws did he have last night that were difficult? He's very much like Tua - he is very accurate and reads defenses well, but isn't an elite QB in the mold of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, or younger AR. Love has a lot more upside than Goff (and a bit more potential negative due to the Favre/Josh Allen type throws sometimes).
Hafley also had a shit game plan and did his best Barry impression. From the start, before Williams and Javon left the game, it was SCREEN SCREEN SCREEN.
And not one fucking adjustment. Goff attempted I believe 1 deep pass and it was way off target. So instead, he screened over and over and over again or threw little dump passes. Hafley needed to stack the LOS and bring people up to take that away.
If he gets burned by a deep pass, so be it.
Lions are the better team and we saw it in both games against the Packers. Doesn't mean the Packers can't beat them, but Lions just execute better. If Packers want to win a third matchup in the playoffs, they need a healthy secondary, a full game from Love, and better play from their WRs. Which is completely possible.
@packerboi posted:Dan, preach!! As he points out, the timing of the flag, NFLFU.
Volume up.
This one is tough pic.twitter.com/nFLjB7ub5r
— Dan Orlovsky (@danorlovsky7) December 6, 2024
Watch Kirby Joseph after Watson bumped him. He never got up to get back into the play... I think that's why the flags came out and why they came out late. I suspect neither Ref thought the initial contact was significant and then when they saw Joseph still down they changed their opinion of what they saw?
It appears the Packers have more JAG's on defense than Jacksonville. Tough to overcome.
Did not realize how much the nose tackle was IN the neutral zone all game long, good take by Kurt Benkert.