+/- Packers vs Raiders

+++ Our D was good enough to stop a mediocre team, at times. Dillon ran hard all night. His best game, this season. Anders Carlson has been solid, for us. TE Sims looked good on the play where he caught the pass and barreled through the defender. Did not see him much, after that, though. Our pass rushers got to Jimmy G several times. Rudy Ford's INT was nice. Yosh Nijman blocked/tipped a FG!

-----Why does it take forever and a day for our offense to wake up? Our play calling was abysmal! The 1st and goal at the 3 series was a fiasco. Getting only 3 points there changed the game, for us. Why weren't our receivers open? The only two down field throws I saw were both to Watson. One was overthrown down the middle and the other he caught and ended up being horse collared on. Where were Doubs, Reed, Toure and Wicks most of the game? Musgrave gets next to no YAC. Why does Taylor not get to the line to gain on his routes? He ends up with a defender between him and the line to gain when Love throws to him. Man, do we ever need Aaron Jones, on the field! We are still having trouble stopping the run.  We are officially into the bye week and we have way too much to work on. Let's find ways for our offense to get into a rhythm, early on.

Lotta ballgame left. GO PACK, GO!!!

I miss Rodgers and all his divaness....

Big minus on MLF - 1st half points last 3 games: 0, 3, 3.

Need to get their shit together coming out of the locker room.

+ I didn’t see LaFleur cry.

Love looked like he felt the pressure last night of MNF, even though the OL held up relatively well compared to Detroit. He looked like an absolute rookie, not a three-year somewhat-a-rookie. The WRs didn't help him one bit. Doubs dropping that sideline pass in the two-minute was a killer. Just didn't secure the ball first. If he catches that, there was a chance. Youth.

The WRs and TEs also need to learn how to use their body to screen off the defender. At this point, Doubs is the only one who can use his body as a screen, but without consistency, and has the hands to still catch the ball. Watson has questionable hands away from his body, and on that last ball he certainly did not get position nor did he try to fight for it. The WRs are so used to being wide open in college and that's not going to happen in the NFL. They have to learn that every ball is a contested ball, to attack and not be passive.

Barry's D is like a hormonal teenager's moods. Good sacks, stops, and things are rolling along and then you get Preston covering Davante and Ford behind the goal line. Spirit killers. Barry should have... eh, what's the use? He got on the plane, so I suppose he'll be here all year. Anyone know about the injury to Quay?

Dillon was a positive. He ran hard, kept his feet moving, played much better than earlier games. It may not have looked like it, but he outgained Jacobs. The OL was better than against Detroit; Dillon had some holes to gain those yards, even if they were tough yards. Little Bro was nails; guess they knew what they had in him when they let Mason go.

At this point, MLF is who he is. I think he'd make a much better CEO HC than the guy-who-calls-plays HC. Let him manage the game and team, and have someone else call plays.

Strangely, I wasn't too disappointed in last night's ending. The D played its guts out and was trying to bail out the O. They played for each other. Love played awful, but he hung in there and he also made some really good throws; his WRs have got to give him some help, and the timing has to be better. They played hard from start to finish. It's a young team, especially on O, and we knew there'd be stretches like this. Eh. Move on.

I'm really staring to see what Mike Wahle is concerned about .... MLF is a "scheme / play" coach, rather than a "develop players" coach. He frequently mentions when questioned about a specific play's failure, us "not getting the look we expected". Players, not plays win games. This concept was driven home to me my second year of being a head high school basketball coach. We were playing in our Sectional Finals vs. a guy who had been a D1 college coach. They took away every set play we tried to run, couldn't get in an offense. After the game I told my assistant "all the time spent over the season putting in our offense / set plays, and in our biggest game it was wasted practice time". After that I spent a lot more time doing player / skill development. Over the last two games especially it looks like defenses are taking MLF's plays away.....and he doesn't have "plan B"

@lambeausouth posted:

Have we seen this Packers team come out once in the Matt LaFleur era and punch the other team in the mouth? When was the last time the Green Bay Packers physically whipped an opponent? We can’t even get our starting team on the field because they’re so soft.

Nobody fears this team. Nobody has feared this team in a long time, because everybody knows that a Matt LaFleur/Joe Barry team is going to fold like a cheap suit when the pressure is on.

This comment made me remember the days when Tauscher and company would come up to the line and stare at the defense, almost daring them to come across. The confidence that line had was obvious.

Love is getting a lot of blame because he's the guy left with the stat line but he got no help. Our entire offensive scheme was smothered by a defense that had little concern about the run. Dillon is just never going to make a defense pay with a 60 yard run and take the pass rush aggressiveness away. Our OL and blocking schemes is the root of our problems. Multiple times I saw TEs on Crosby, once expecting Kraft a rookie that hardly plays, to come from the LT side of the alignment to block Crosby on the RT side. Fail.

I think this entire coaching staff gets fired at the end of the season even if they win 7-8 games. This team comes out unmotivated. In one game they've had a decent first half on offense.

And I’m not giving Joe Barry a pat on the back. He slowed down a Raiders team that’s 29th out of 32 teams in offensive scoring, a unit that hasn’t scored more than 18 points at any time this season. Whoopie.

And on a critical second and ten play late in the third quarter, at the Packers 37, he schemed Preston Smith on Davante Adams, who then proceeded to gash the defense for 21 to the Packers 16. Four plays later, the Raiders scored what ultimately proved to be the game winning touchdown.

No way the entire coaching staff gets fired this off season some of the staff will change but not the whole thing.  They won't say it but this is an almost entire rebuild and you don't fire everyone when you are in that mode.  But, the coaches who better keep their resume up to date is Barry and Butkus.

Nobody thought McCarthy would get fired either. MLF really put himself in a bad spot hanging on to Barry. Usually a HC gets a chance to fire a coordinator and buy a year but MLF might have let that opportunity slide away. I don't think he's assembled a very strong staff. No playoffs and I'll be very surprised if he doesn't get fired. The team is completely unmotivated and that has nothing to do with personnel or rebuilding.

Depends on how the last...12 games... play out.  If they look like this every week they'll be lucky to win another game.  It would be a sign the coach has lost his team.  Then I would imagine a change like that could happen.

Lots of season left.  If the Bears can turn things around, you'd think GB could too.

The Bears have turned things around?

@Goldie posted:

♥️’s.  QB rating  32.2.  

Is that a + or - Goldster?

+ Players played

- Coaches coached

Signs have always been there, they just get more and more exposed every week.  Hopefully it doesn't hinder the development of the young guys too much.  It'll be really interesting to see where they end up with #10's next contract.

The next two games are going to be big for MLF. Not because the Packers have any realistic playoff expectations (their ceiling is about 8 or 9 wins and a first round road exit in the playoffs). The next two games are critical because they will be playing two of the worst teams in football.

They get a bye and then play at Denver. By several statistical measures, the Broncos have had the worst defense to start a season in NFL history. If MLF can't scheme up an offensive game plan (presumably with Aaron Jones and Watson both healthy and with Jenkins playing) to score against Denver, he is clearly in way over his head.

On top of that, Russell Wilson is imploding and Sean Payton looks like he regrets not being on a golf course right now.

https://www.milehighreport.com...e-ever-recorded-dvoa

To give you an idea of just how bad this start is on defense, let’s take a look at where the Broncos rank in several key areas:

• 36.2 PPG (32nd)

• 450.6 Total YPG (32nd)

• 187.6 Rushing YPG (32nd)

• 5.9 Rushing YPC (32nd)

• 263 Passing TPG (29th)

• 124.6 QBR (32nd)

• 12 Sacks (21st)

• 40.7% Third Down (18th)

After the Broncos, they play the Vikings at home. The Vikings will be without Justin Jefferson. There are credible reports out there that Kirk Cousins might be traded in the next 3 weeks. They are headed towards tank mode.

A semi-competent team has to win both those games. At the absolute worst, Green Bay has to go 1-1 in those games. If the Packers somehow lose both and drop to 2-5, I really think MLF's job could become in jeopardy by the end of the season. After those two games, the Packers play the Rams, at Pittsburgh, Chargers, at the Lions on Thanksgiving, and then the Chiefs. Even if the Packers play well in those games, they are likely to go 2-3 at best. It's very possible that could be a 5 game losing streak.

If they win the next two, they'll be 4-3 and if they can win 1 of those 5 games after that, they'll be 5-7 and will end the season with the Giants, Bucs, Panthers, Vikings, and Bears. Those are all winnable games and they would end the season on a positive note and still be on the margins of playoff contention.

If they lose the next two and go into that 5 game stretch at 2-5, they could be looking at being 2-10 or 3-9 and you just end up playing meaningless football for a month.

I think MLF has a lot of rope -  until at least the end of 2024. But if this team would sink to end up being something like 4-13 at the end of the year, that might be enough to be gone. If he wins these next two, you'd expect them to end up winning at least 7 games and that is more than enough for him to be safe.

@ammo posted:

----Why do we never see our WR running wide open like K C's and other teams?  Scheme or talent?  Musgrave should be as effective as Kelce is at getting open, why doesn't he??

++++  D-backs go up 2-0 on the hated Dodgers!!!

You honestly expect a rookie TE to be as effective as a HOF TE in his prime?

Bottom 5 offensive performances against the Raiders:

1. TE Tucker Kraft: 36.2
2. LT Rasheed Walker: 47.6
3. WR Romeo Doubs: 51.0
4. WR Jayden Reed: 51.0
5. QB Jordan Love: 53.0

Kraft earned a very poor grade over 12 run-blocking snaps. He also wasn’t targeted on eight routes run. Walker gave up four hurries and had the team’s worst run blocking grade. Doubs ran a team-high 33 routes but caught just one pass for four yards on three targets and had a crucial drop on the final series. Reed ran 20 routes but had just one catch for seven yards. Love threw three interceptions and didn’t play well from clean pockets or off play-action. He also completed just 2-of-8 passes over 10 yards in the air

@MichiganPacker posted:

The next two games are going to be big for MLF.

It's tough to win in the NFL, but they simply could not afford to lose to the Raiders who will be lucky to win 4 games this season.

Check it.....

This is the play Aikman was just laughing at because the Packers DC has a guy playing at the fucking Goalline.

Aikmans exact words were ...."That's just easy pickins..."

Bury Joe Barry... and MLF.....he's in trouble now too.

Even as bad as they coached, they STILL had a chance to win at the end. THAT'S how bad the Raiders are

I think MLF is in trouble. The Packers got lucky against the Saints when Carr left the game. If he stayed in no way there is enough clock to pull that one out. Fields would shred the Packer defense the way he played the last two weeks so the Packers are lucky they have any wins and they only played one good team. If Cousins plays the Packers are in trouble because they have other solid WRs and TEs.

The Packers have an incredibly soft schedule this season with only KC and Detroit looking like serious playoff teams.

@Pakrz posted:

You honestly expect a rookie TE to be as effective as a HOF TE in his prime?

Actually, I think Musgrave has shown to be very good at getting open. He's shown his hands are very good when he runs a route and is somewhat stationary as the ball is coming at him. He snatches the ball out of the air with authority and has a good catch radius.

His issue seems to be that once he comes open he has trouble tracking the ball in the air or at least connecting on routes with Love where has to keep running to catch the ball. There have been at least 3 plays so far where's he's running free down the seam or on the outside and Love can't connect with him. It could be that Love just doesn't throw an accurate deep ball, but Musgrave seems to trip over his own feet or look like he's trying to track a wind-blown infield pop fly when he tries to adjust to a ball in the air. In other words, like Darnell Savage.

Aikman initially said the Packers were playing too deep on that play, the second time in the drive he said that as a 3rd and 4 was converted earlier with a short pass.

The Packers seem to play a semi-prevent defense as check downs in the flat are usually wide open. I've heard comments from announcers saying "blown assignment" but I'm not so sure if that is the case.

MLF could very well be in trouble, which may have something to do with not firing Barry. MLF may need a job soon and he has to be careful who he pisses off on his path to the unemployment line. Coaching is a fraternity. The vast majority of them will be fired at some point because that’s how the business works. When that happens, you need more friends in the fraternity than enemies.

@MichiganPacker posted:

Actually, I think Musgrave has shown to be very good at getting open. He's shown his hands are very good when he runs a route and is somewhat stationary as the ball is coming at him. He snatches the ball out of the air with authority and has a good catch radius.

His issue seems to be that once he comes open he has trouble tracking the ball in the air or at least connecting on routes with Love where has to keep running to catch the ball. There have been at least 3 plays so far where's he's running free down the seam or on the outside and Love can't connect with him. It could be that Love just doesn't throw an accurate deep ball, but Musgrave seems to trip over his own feet or look like he's trying to track a wind-blown infield pop fly when he tries to adjust to a ball in the air. In other words, like Darnell Savage.

Musgrave could be a great player. He’s 5 games into his career though. Expecting him to have the same output at this stage of his career as a guy like Kelce is asinine. Don’t support the nonsense of the OP.

@Pakrz posted:

You honestly expect a rookie TE to be as effective as a HOF TE in his prime?

Kelce is mainly just in tune with Mahomes. He stops a lot of routes in an open seam in the zone and the ball is there. Our WRs and TEs can't be trusted to do that so Love can't just throw to that open seam.

@Pakrz posted:

MLF could very well be in trouble, which may have something to do with not firing Barry. MLF may need a job soon and he has to be careful who he pisses off on his path to the unemployment line. Coaching is a fraternity. The vast majority of them will be fired at some point because that’s how the business works. When that happens, you need more friends in the fraternity than enemies.

Joe Barry is longtime NFL coach Rod Marinelli's son in law who no doubt has a ton of coaching connections.  MLF might have even been paying back a marker when he initially hired Barry. This is Barry's 3rd failed DC job. How many guys get that many chances?

Prediction: if they can him he will never get an NFL job again

Not as a DC but he'll land on some staff if he wants to be a LB coach or something. It's a fraternity like Pakrz said, once you're in you're in.

@WolfPack posted:

Define played hard...

Love was bad but our receivers played awful. We need someone to emerge to help Love. Catch the GD ball!

“We do what we do” Fredokunst has established he doesn’t prioritize reliable hands when evaluating receivers. That’s been a scouted critique of the WRs he’s drafted, be it Moore, MVS, ESB, Watson, Rodgers, Reed, Toure and even Doub, to an extent. With Jones out, the most reliable receiver is Patrick Taylor, then Dillon. That certainly doesn’t help a young QB.

We all should have expected some serious growing pains, but last night was the first time in a long while Love looked like he’d regressed to a “Never will be”.

The offensive line is a mess. Walker can’t handle speed, Tom struggles with a power burst, Myers and Funion just struggle and there’s no quality depth. I get seeing what Walker can do because Nijman isn’t the future, but damn!

With the resources devoted to the defense, it should be nails. It’s not. Before anyone starts a circle jerk about 17 points allowed that’s also what the usually boat raced Broncos and the banged up Chargers held them to. Josh McDaniel is the Joe Barry of offensive coaches, maybe even worse.

@H5 posted:

The Bears have turned things around?

Sure, why not.  We're in the upside down.

@Pakrz posted:

Musgrave could be a great player. He’s 5 games into his career though. Expecting him to have the same output at this stage of his career as a guy like Kelce is asinine. Don’t support the nonsense of the OP.

I already think Musgrave is the best receiving TE they've had since Cook. He gets open and catches the ball well. Most 250 pound guys don't track the ball well in the air. The problem is that none of their WRs track the ball well in the air either, and Musgrave is much better at getting open than most of their WRs so he's gotten some deep targets.

I don't expect him to be Kelce ever to have him be a success. It's like expecting Love to be Rodgers.

@PackerRick posted:

Not as a DC but he'll land on some staff if he wants to be a LB coach or something. It's a fraternity like Pakrz said, once you're in you're in.

Just like MLF will end up as a QB coach or OC once he's done in Green Bay.

I wonder what this defense (with this level of talent (or at least potential talent) would have looked like Pettine. Pettine got let go after a season in which the Packers were 9th in overall defense. In the NFC title game, he had this lineup to work with.

Pettine essentially got fired in large part because of Kevin King giving up the two biggest plays of the game (the TD on the last play of the 1st half and the holding call to clinch it). Joe Barry gives up a head-scratching play on a scheme issue at least once a game (P. Smith covering Adams or lining up a DB 12 yard off the LOS in the red zone). The level of talent Barry has to work with is much better.

@PackerRick posted:

Aikman initially said the Packers were playing too deep on that play, the second time in the drive he said that as a 3rd and 4 was converted earlier with a short pass.

The Packers seem to play a semi-prevent defense as check downs in the flat are usually wide open. I've heard comments from announcers saying "blown assignment" but I'm not so sure if that is the case.

When it's second- or third-and-short, Barry is so afraid of getting beat for a TD that he stations someone 10 yards behind the LOS. He's happy to give up an easy first down rather than a TD, thus keeping the D on the field longer and wearing them out. It's a vicious circle. Barry calls a game scared. It's a chicken-sh!t defensive philosophy.

Mike Pettine fielded top 10 defenses with 3 different teams.....the guy could coach. In his last year with us we were 9th in total defense .....and as MP pointed out, with a lot less talent than is on our defense now.

@Pakrz posted:

You honestly expect a rookie TE to be as effective as a HOF TE in his prime?

Yep. He is supposed to be faster than Kelce.  It's just a matter of getting open, catch the damn ball and then run with it.  Isn't   that what Kelce does?

@Fandame posted:

Barry calls a game scared. It's a chicken-sh!t defensive philosophy.

A hallmark of the Matt LaFleur coaching tree.

@JimBobDuggar posted:

A hallmark of the Matt LaFleur coaching tree.

Which part? Scared or chicken-sh!t?

+ I spoke with Jim Leonard yesterday about the game.

- Jim advised the Packers should start recruiting heavily for next year during the bye week.

@PackerRick posted:

I think MLF is in trouble. The Packers got lucky against the Saints when Carr left the game. If he stayed in no way there is enough clock to pull that one out. Fields would shred the Packer defense the way he played the last two weeks so the Packers are lucky they have any wins and they only played one good team. If Cousins plays the Packers are in trouble because they have other solid WRs and TEs.

The Packers have an incredibly soft schedule this season with only KC and Detroit looking like serious playoff teams.

Fields isn't shredding anything. He is throwing to receivers that are wide open against bad defenses.

@Herschel posted:

“We do what we do” Fredokunst has established he doesn’t prioritize reliable hands when evaluating receivers.

Lmao 😂 😆 Fredokunst