Phil Simms discusses Aaron Rodgers on the Sirius Blitz with Rich Gannon (transcript)

titmfatiedNo Code

quote:
Rich Gannon: My last question. I just want to follow up on Aaron Rodgers. I know you study a lot of tape. I know you studied Aaron Rodgers coming out of Cal and his throwing mechanics, his stroke, his motion. As a former quarterback I think Mike McCarthy's done an excellent job of training him, his footwork and all of those things. In terms of his stroke and in terms of his arm strength I think he's one of the best in the business. I don't know that anyone has as strong an arm as this guy

Phil Simms: I don't think there's anybody in the game that can flick and make the throws...

Rich Gannon: and spin it-

Phil Simms:-and spins it. Oh my gosh can he rotate the ball which makes him an all weather thrower, that's why it's important. You know Rich I saw him come out of college and I sit here and I say this with all honesty- I've been wrong on a few- not many- but I didn't like him. I thought 'Man, that throwing motion. That's looks like something out of Pop Warner football-'

Rich Gannon: -they changed it though, a little bit

Phil Simms:. So I went up there, watched him his first year in practice. "Awful," I said "Wow. He's awful."

Second year I went up there and I remember somebody going "What did you think?" I said "Well the Packers have to be worried that this guy is never going to play for them. I mean really, and you know what, and this is the truth; they were worried.

Then year three I go up there and I'm watching out of the corner of my eye and I go "Wow." I thought it was Brett and I turned and I watched Aaron Rodgers and I went "Oh my God" and after practice is almost over I said, "Hey Aaron!"

He goes "Oh, hey Phil".

I said, "Don't take this the wrong way, but your throwing- it's unbelievable."

He goes "Yeah, I know, I'm not taking it wrong, don't worry. Thanks, I appreciate it. Look, I kind of went back to being natural. Kind of taught myself, they taught me some things."

Rich, it was an unbelievable transformation. He really went from on a scale of 1-10; he went from a three to a ten. That's about what I thought. I thought he was a sub-par NFL thrower. Below average, way below average to arguably the best now. It's unbelievable.

He also said he thought Rodgers performance against the Falcons may have been the best quarterback performance he's ever seen. Great interview.

1/18/112:30 PM

Original Post

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BorisPerson Man Camera Dildo Shop - NFLFU®

That's why I think if the niners drafted him instead of Alex smith, they would have ruined him. MM and clements did a great job with him.

1/18/112:37 PM

michiganjoeMember

My memory is there were all kinds of explanations given for his plunge at the time of the draft and I don't recall mechanics being predominant.

1/18/112:43 PM

packerboiI lick rainbows

And another reason Matt Flynn will continue to improve. I'm not saying he'll be Aaron Rodgers 2.0 but MM and Clements can do wonders with QB's.

Flynn should feel every bit as lucky as AR that he is where is.

1/18/112:44 PM

GratefulPackMember

quote:
Originally posted by michiganjoe:
My memory is there were all kinds of explanations given for his plunge at the time of the draft and I don't recall mechanics being predominant.

I kind of remember that there was something about him holding the ball too low and something else about his mechanics, but that the Cal staff had coached him or liked it that way because he got rid of the ball faster and that was how their offense was designed.

It does make you wonder how many guys have the talent but either end up in a system where they don't get a chance to develop or just don't have the work ethic or ego that allows them to learn and change.

1/18/112:47 PM

Winnebago WarriorMember

Rodgers got discredited for being a 'Tedford' guy, a quarterback who only looked good in Jeff Tedford's system. I think it's safe to say MM and Clements 'cured' him of that label.

1/18/112:57 PM

DH13Member

I saw him on the sideline during a preseason game vs. TEN, I think it was his second year with the team. He did not look anything like the guy he is today. I thought he was a total dud. Not that I know much about young QB talent but wow.

1/18/113:04 PM

titmfatiedNo Code

quote:
Originally posted by Chronic Hobbit:
Rodgers got discredited for being a 'Tedford' guy, a quarterback who only looked good in Jeff Tedford's system.

It's kind of wild. He had to unlearn what he'd already learned and he re-invented himself as a MM QB. I still don't think he's reached his ceiling either. I don't know where he's going to get better but I know he's going to look back at this season and find something and improve on it.

1/18/113:11 PM

ilcuquiTHE F*** WITH FASHION

Tedford coaches his QB's to hold the ball up abnormally high and tight when dropping back and going through their progressions. I remember when Rodgers was coming out there was indeed concern expressed about his being a Tedford QB.

It's worth repeating this post from Brak from last week ( link):

quote:
Originally posted by Brak:
quote:

I don't know what he did. I don't know how he fixed himself.

1/18/113:17 PM

DH13Member

The only thing that concerns me about Rodgers: he already has 2 concussions. A couple more and he's scrambled eggs. Debbie Downer, I know but every time he takes off scrambling or rushing, I hold my breath that he doesn't take another shot to the shell.

1/18/113:18 PM

BorisPerson Man Camera Dildo Shop - NFLFU®

This picture is priceless.

1/18/113:23 PM

titmfatiedNo Code

quote:
Originally posted by DH13:
The only thing that concerns me about Rodgers: he already has 2 concussions.

One thing he can do is tuck his chin a little better when he's falling down. If you watch the play against the Lions where he sustained the conucussion, he leaves his head hanging out there to get whipped around. If he tucks the chin it'll help him brace a lot better and slow down the speed of his skull if it's going sideways towards the ground.

I still love that scramble against the Giants where he jumped up after a slide and gave the safe sign.

1/18/113:28 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

Makes me chuckle Boris.

1/18/114:11 PM

ammoCheese Master

IFRC some of the reasons Rodgers dropped so far were:

1. Teams ahead of the Packers had greater needs than QB.
2. Only 12 other QBs were drafted total in 2005.
3. The fact he was a "Teford" QB.
4. 2003 draft had 4 QBs taken in 1st round, Palmer, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman
5. 2004 draft had 4 QBs taken in 1st round, Manning, Rivers, Big Ben and Losman
6. 2006 draft had QB percieved as better coming, 3 in the top 11, Young, Leinhart, Cutler

1/18/115:03 PM

Timmy!TIMMAAAAYYY!!

I wonder what Simms thinks of his boys? Neither one has been able to do much in college or the NFL.

1/18/115:05 PM

DH13Member

I think he dropped for the same reasons Simms laid out in his bit. Now what I'd like to know is what TT's draft day thoughts were - whether he really thought he was taking a gamble or if he saw evidence that led him to believe he would be great some day.

1/18/115:07 PM

ilcuquiTHE F*** WITH FASHION

DH13, funny you should ask. Former Packer VP and cap guru Andrew Brandt answers that today over at the NFP (link) along with some other perspectives on Rodgers.

quote:
You've mentioned how fate shined on the Packers in selecting him. Could you refresh?

Franchise-defining decisions often happen due to fate. I vividly remember all the defensive players that we were targeting in the Draft -- DeMarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, to name a couple, who both went to the Cowboys -- fall off the board before our pick. And then the time came and there was one player name staring at us that we had rated as a first-round player: Aaron Rodgers. Even then it wasn't a sure thing, as I kept Aaron and his agent on hold for an agonizing ten minutes per Ted’s instructions while waiting to see if the phone would ring with an offer we couldn’t refuse.

1/18/115:23 PM

Wisconsin JohnsonThe One

quote:
Originally posted by DH13:
Now what I'd like to know is what TT's draft day thoughts were - whether he really thought he was taking a gamble or if he saw evidence that led him to believe he would be great some day.

Makes me think that developing Rodgers was a huge priority, thus hiring McCarthy. IIRC, Rodgers was drafted while Sherman was still coach. Imagine Tom Rossley or Darrell Bevell in charge of his development.

1/18/115:23 PM

Satori"...going where the climate suits my clothes"

quote:
Originally posted by Wisconsin Johnson:

Makes me think that developing Rodgers was a huge priority, thus hiring McCarthy.

That's a very interesting take on the choice of MM to be HC

1/18/115:35 PM

Grave DiggerMember

I remember thinking at the time that he was being unfairly discredited as just a Tedford QB. I wasn't quite sure what to think of him because his mechanics didn't say NFL QB yet he consistently made NFL throws and showed a lot of the intangibles that go with being an NFL QB. That game he had against Southern Cal his Junior year absolutely screamed NFL QB to me...it was one of the finest performances by a college QB I had ever seen. I was excited when they drafted him, but after that first preseason I figured he would be a project.

The game against Dallas in '07 where he came in after they busted Favre's elbow was what convinced me he was legit. We didn't win, but he looked very sharp.

1/18/115:36 PM

GBFanForLifeLarge Member

It always puzzles me that more teams don't seem to have QB coaches to teach their QB. There are a lot of QB's that just can't make the transition. They get drafted high and thrown to the wolves. It says a lot that the Packers dumped Brohm, either he wasn't teachable or didn't want to learn.

1/18/115:49 PM

HenryYou rang?

quote:
Originally posted by Satori:
quote:
Originally posted by Wisconsin Johnson:

Makes me think that developing Rodgers was a huge priority, thus hiring McCarthy.

That's a very interesting take on the choice of MM to be HC

I always thought it was one of the bigger reasons. TT is a true Wolf disciple. MM made Aaron Brooks look like a superstar in New Orleans and he turned into nothing after MM left. The whole San Fran OC thing stunk but it seemed pretty obvious that TT was looking for a coach who could take raw talent and really shape it, especially at QB.

1/18/117:04 PM

bdplantMember

quote:
Originally posted by Grave Digger:

The game against Dallas in '07 where he came in after they busted Favre's elbow was what convinced me he was legit. We didn't win, but he looked very sharp.

I was at that game. All of the Cowboys fans around us went into full on celebration mode after Brent got knocked out, not only because he was hurt, but because they figured the game was over. After watching Rodgers for a series or two, they all piped down...at least until the game was over.

1/18/117:56 PM

CJSMember

quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
That's why I think if the niners drafted him instead of Alex smith, they would have ruined him. MM and clements did a great job with him.

100% agreed. Some QB's need some time to develop and there could have nothing better for Aaron than to get MM's tutoring and to sit and watch Brett throw the ball for 3 seasons. It seems like Aaron really learned the do's AND don'ts as a result.

1/18/1110:39 PM

Tobin RoteMember

I don't buy this whole thing about Aaron becoming a completely different QB between years 2 and 3. It seems more likely that Simms is covering his ass because he(like alot of people) incorrectly labeled Rodgers as a bust out of college.

Remember that the first couple of years that we saw Rodgers, he would only play against teams we were blowing out or that were destroying us. He was playing with the 2nd and 3rd string players. Not the best time to showcase your talents. The first time we saw him play with starting caliber players was in Dallas when Favre got hurt. Completely different story in that game.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, at Cal, Rodgers held the ball too high before he started the throwing motion. That really hindered his mobility because it's awkward to run with your hands above your shoulders.

However, besides holding the ball too high, Rodgers was an EXCEPTIONAL QB in college. He was very accurate, could make all the throws, and with a quick release. He had everything that you look for in an NFL quarterback.

From what I've heard in the past, Rodgers came off as overly confident in his interviews. San Fran incorrectly assumed that he would be unwilling to learn new methods because he was a "know it all". Rodgers admitted that he came off as too cocky in his interviews. He thought that a team picking first in the draft would want a QB that was confident with his ability, he just went a little overboard. Add in the fact that he was a "Tedford" QB, and it was enough for San Fran to make the biggest mistake in the history of their franchise.

A lot of credit goes to MM for teaching Rodgers. A lot of credit goes to Rodgers for increasing his strength and becoming an even better player. That being said, I think there was enough evidence coming out of college that Rodgers had what it took to be great. TT didn't get lucky. He knew what he had.

1/18/1111:23 PM

BorisPerson Man Camera Dildo Shop - NFLFU®

TT did state that he made phone calls to other scouts asking "What's wrong with this guy?!?!" They all responded with "nothing is wrong with him". TT also said Aaron was the only player left on the board with a first round grade.

I still say MM and Clements too had a great influence on Rodgers development. Just crazy that the QB is sitting there at #24.

1/18/1111:26 PM

CJSMember

Andrew Brandt had a snippet on Rodgers from his mailbag today:

http://www.nationalfootballpos...ys-mailbag-5325.html

He talks about how the arm strength was always there and that he was making great plays from the get-go, but also said that you never really know on a player. Sounds like Simms had a different opinion than the Packers.

That said, players DO develop - and it definitely benefited Rodgers to sit for 3 years to give him time to train his body and his mind. Tom Brady was a 6th rounder and developed as well once he dedicated himself. Brady's crappy combine tape is pretty humorous if you ever get the chance to see it.

1/18/1111:48 PM

GoldieMember

no one really talks of his accuracy either....I read someplace that after practice the QB's practice throwing footballs into a basket or some such thing, and Brent may-be got one in, where A-12 got like 4 - 5 in every time they did that exercise...... this guy has IT ALL strength, accuracy, and power.

1/19/117:58 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

Heard a Simms interview driving to work on one of the local stations.

--Really likes Rodgers.

--Refused to pick a winner for either of this the games this week, but thought Green Bay/Chi could go either way.

--Still thinks ATL has a bright future (I agree).

--"If I've learned anything over the years, it's not the rushing yardage so much as it is rushing attempts...".

--Pulled a "Wes Welker" and made a deadpan foot-related comment about the Jets' running game.

--Thought Big Ben was extremely underrated as a QB.

1/19/118:14 AM

phaedrusMember

Based on what Simms said in the transcript, I find it hard to believe his explanation of throwing mechanics change is made up. He not only got into pretty much detail, but also mentions the experience of seeing Rodgers his 3rd year, being amazed by Rodger's mechanics, and Rodger's basically confirming the change.

My guess is Rodgers had all the attributes, but was in need of significant change in throwing mechanics, that this part of things is legit.

1/19/119:23 AM

BTPMember

quote:
Originally posted by Coach:

--Refused to pick a winner for either of this the games this week, but thought Green Bay/Chi could go either way.

He can't pick a winner because he does "Inside The NFL" on Showtime. His pick(s) will be announced tonight on the show.

1/19/119:36 AM

Tobin RoteMember

quote:
Originally posted by phaedrus:
Based on what Simms said in the transcript, I find it hard to believe his explanation of throwing mechanics change is made up. He not only got into pretty much detail, but also mentions the experience of seeing Rodgers his 3rd year, being amazed by Rodger's mechanics, and Rodger's basically confirming the change.

My guess is Rodgers had all the attributes, but was in need of significant change in throwing mechanics, that this part of things is legit.

There's no doubt that Rodgers changed his mechanics since he was drafted. The difference isn't as drastic as Simms has made it out to be though. It's not like he had a side arm delivery or a long wind up like Tim Tebow. His mechanics in college were very similar to how they are today, nice and tight. He had a quick delivery with a high release point. He was getting plenty of zip on the ball. The only difference is where he now holds the ball prior to delivery.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that Rodgers was a highly touted QB in college. Prior to Rodgers final year at Cal, many scouts were projecting him to be the first pick in the draft. In fact, it wasn't until the season was over and Alex Smith put up ridiculous numbers in Meyer's spread offense, that Smith even came into the discussion for 1st pick in the draft. My point is that if scouts viewed Rodgers as 1st pick in the draft status for almost an entire year, then obviously he showed a glimpse of what the future held.

1/19/111:06 PM

phaedrusMember

Yeah, good points TR and makes sense to me.

(By the way, I have some football history knowledge of Tobin Rote!)

1/19/111:10 PM

Satori"...going where the climate suits my clothes"

quote:
Originally posted by Tobin Rote:

My point is that if scouts viewed Rodgers as 1st pick in the draft status for almost an entire year, then obviously he showed a glimpse of what the future held.

http://www.drafthistory.com/years/2005.html

Concur, he was highly touted but something happened in between to make 23 teams take a pass on draft day. Might have been the Tedford curse

Interesting to see how many of those 1st rounders are now on their 2nd team or out of the league. Roddy White was GBs pick if they didn't take Rodgers

1/19/111:12 PM

michiganjoeMember

I seem to recall some questions about both his attitude and athletic ability at the time. There were all sorts of reasons being floated around for the drop but no general consensus as I remember.

1/19/111:16 PM

TDMember

Dan Marino was the same case in terms of talent but slipped. Rodgers did not show the same athletic ability he has shown here but I am not going to complain. The guy has a complete feel for the game. So did Brett but many times Brett refused to take what he could. He would make stupid decisions instead of tossing the ball to where only his player could make a play on the ball. That is what separates Va Jay vs Rodgers.

It happens. What kills me is that while Rodgers slid because of the Tedford curse, teams draft these spread offense QB's.

1/19/111:19 PM

chickenboyTic Toc

quote:
Originally posted by michiganjoe: There were all sorts of reasons being floated around for the drop but no general consensus as I remember.

My recollection is that nobody needed a QB badly except for San Fran. I'm not going to go thru every team in the 2005 draft but here is a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_Draft

1/19/111:28 PM

TDMember

Your team aka Vikes did not have one unless you count the Baker(Culfumbler) as a QB.

1/19/111:32 PM

michiganjoeMember

quote:
Originally posted by chickenboy:
My recollection is that nobody needed a QB badly except for San Fran.

Fell into TT's lap?

Regardless of the perceived needs of the other teams many of them misjudged his talent and that's why he fell to 24.

1/19/111:32 PM

chickenboyTic Toc

quote:
Originally posted by TD:
Your team aka Vikes did not have one unless you count the Baker(Culfumbler) as a QB.

Well the guy was coming off of this kind of a season:

2004 MIN 16 16 4,717 39 11 110.9

So I suspect they thought they didn't need one.

1/19/111:37 PM

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