Portal and Recruiting

I am all for players cashing in on NIL and being able to make some money because for decades the NCAA was cashing in on them.   But at the same time I do think it needs to be managed better by the NCAA.

I have the misfortune of living a little less than an hour from Ohio $tate.  Ewers the now Texas QB was with them he got a million dollars to do endorsements for car dealerships and got a $100,000 pickup truck as well.  He played I think 10 total snaps at O$U and bolted after one year to get more at Texas.   And Texas is also paying Arch Manning something like 4 Million a year and he has barely played.

Storr is headed to his 3rd college in 3 years and his 7th school in 7 years dating back to high school. All 7 schools will be in different states and spread throughout the country (Illinois, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, New York, Wisconsin, and whatever comes next).

https://badgerswire.usatoday.c...sfer-portal-schools/

I was and am for guys getting some stipend or renumeration for playing big time college sports.  But I never thought it would come to this.  It will be hard to shut the barn door now that it is open.  Where does this end or does it?  

We may be nearing the end of sports as we knew and loved it.

@Pikes Peak posted:

I was and am for guys getting some stipend or renumeration for playing big time college sports.  But I never thought it would come to this.  It will be hard to shut the barn door now that it is open.  Where does this end or does it?  

We may be nearing the end of sports as we knew and loved it.

For me, college sports is much less interesting than it was before NIL, particularly basketball. You really are just rooting for laundry at this point.

I don't think you can legally restrict kids from moving around for the best deal. If you become one of the best violin players in the country and Juliard offers you a scholarship based on how much you've improved at your local state school you have the chance to leave and take it. So you can't blame the kids.

But the thing that really drives this problem home is the Essegian situation. Essegian was the type of kid you root for in a college program. He came in and overachieved as a freshman. He seemed to love playing college basketball at Madison. I was looking forward to seeing what he could do with another year in the weight room and of summer practices. And then, they go and get (or rather pay) Storr to come in. Essegian goes from being on the freshman All-Big 10 team to not playing at all. He didn't seem to be a problem in terms of attitude at all despite getting screwed over. And then Storr comes in, flashes during the season, and then after a great game vs. Northwestern in the Big 10 tourney, regresses badly in his last 3 games (20 for 57 from the floor culminating in a terrible game against James Madison where he started 2 for 11 from the floor including some air balls from three, until he hit a few layups at the end when JMU was guarding against 3s up big). Storr looked completely disengaged for large parts of that game.

Of course, if you know you are headed elsewhere afterwards, you might be a little distracted. It's bad enough for the one and done NBA types, but Storr isn't anywhere near that level. Essegian would have been diving on the floor and hustling to the end. Storr looked like he was playing a pickup game at the local rec league.

Now Storr leaves and Essegian is going to transfer (probably because someone is correctly telling him that Wisconsin and Gard don't give a shit about you - look at what happened this year and that's what's going to happen again if you stay there). Wisconsin will then look for the next Storr to rent for a year instead of developing a guy over the course of 3-4 years.

One question I have is do these guys have to maintain some academic standards to be eligible to transfer? Can you just fail out every year and transfer to another school (which you can do as a regular student if you can get the next college to admit you).

@Pikes Peak posted:

I was and am for guys getting some stipend or renumeration for playing big time college sports.  But I never thought it would come to this.  It will be hard to shut the barn door now that it is open.  Where does this end or does it?  

We may be nearing the end of sports as we knew and loved it.

The other thing is that this is going to eventually kill off all the non-revenue generating sports. I would guess most places won't make much money off of football and basketball anyway now that they basically have to pay them as professionals. At most schools, those sports pay for kids to play tennis, wrestle, run track, etc. When teams start losing money on football (donors will just essentially pay the kids directly rather than donate to the broader atheltic program), they'll have to cut back elsewhere.

Also, OSU, Michigan, Alabama, Georgia, LSU will continue to make big money in football, but even places like Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, etc. will struggle to compete. At some point, well-run schools are just to say forget it and disband their football teams (certainly places like the MAC).

Pro sports in the US should just go to the European model where athletes prepare to be pros at a younger age. It's the system that developed almost all the current and future NBA MVP candidates (Doncic, Jokic, Giannis, Wembenyama). Instead of jumping around to 6 places in 6 years like Storr, you get to stay and develop with continuity in the plan.

But they won't yet (at least for football) because the most important thing for many wealthy alumni is to be able to tailgate 6 weekends every fall and see your team win.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

One question I have is do these guys have to maintain some academic standards to be eligible to transfer? Can you just fail out every year and transfer to another school (which you can do as a regular student if you can get the next college to admit you).

A couple of my friends and I had that very discussion this last weekend.  So can a player say screw it I don't want a scholarship I will be considered a walk on and because I am here for the money and I will do the absolute bare minimum to stay eligible (if anything at all).  And then just move in a couple of months.

I am also in favor of players having more freedom to transfer because we all know coaches can move at will and to a certain extent players should as well.  But then again I do think there does need to be a max amount of times you can do that. 

A while back I listened to Herbstreit doing an interview about this subject and he basically said there needs to be more rules and a true commissioner of each major sport to ensure something is followed because we all know the NCAA aint it.

Storrs reportedly transferring to Kansas.

And now a bit of a bombshell (from 247sports.com):

Chucky Hepburn Enters the NCAA Transfer Portal

Wisconsin's three-year starter at point guard is now in the portal.

MADISON, Wis. – A seventh player from Wisconsin has entered the transfer portal during the off-season and this one might be the toughest pill to swallow yet.

Chucky Hepburn, a three-year starter at point guard, has entered the transfer portal, leaving the Badgers badly wounded heading into next season.

Hepburn started and played in 103 games for UW. As a junior, he averaged 9.2 points and a career-high 3.9 assists per game en route to All-Big Ten honorable mention honors.

Due to the addition of St. John's transfer AJ Storr, who also entered the portal this off-season, Hepburn's scoring dripped in 2023-24. Hepburn averaged 12.2 ppg during his sophomore campaign, however, Hepburn's 3.9 apg was more than one assist better than 2022-23 and he also posted better than a 3:1 assist-to-turnover ratio.

Without Hepburn, the Badgers are down to two returning starters in 2024-24 -- junior guard Max Klesmit and senior center Steven Crowl. Hepburn joins Storr, sophomore guard Connor Essegian, and freshman forward Gus Yalden as the other scholarship players for UW to hit the portal.

WOW!  That is a gut check. I guess it is possible he stays, but unlikely.  I hate the thought of Klesmit being the #1 point guard of 1st option as a shooter.   Somebody in Madison needs to step up and pay Chuckie some more $$$$$$.

Lol

Gard might want to start recruiting SW Wisco high schools to fill a roster.  What an absolute disaster.  But hey he’s our guy right ammo?

This team might win 6 games next season.  Extend Gard now!!!

This fucking hack of a coach has killed off any semblance of Bo Ryan legitimacy and now honestly they are on par with UWM or UWGB.   The Phoenix might beat them.  Memo to the rubes.  Good prospects won’t come and play for a high school try hard over his head HC.  And there’s not enough money in the collective or through donors to make up for it.

McIntosh can’t fire this hack quickly enough.  Get on the phone now with Jay Wright and basically offer him whatever he wants.

He wants t be on TV.

They screwed up not going after Shaka Smart.  Jay Wright is even better.   Make it happen Wisconsin. If you don’t, well, you are on par with mediocre mid major teams and good D2 teams which is probably where a guy like Gard needs to be.  He can’t build or lead a real program.  

https://www.inquirer.com/colle...lipari-20240409.html

@Tschmack posted:

Lol

Gard might want to start recruiting SW Wisco high schools to fill a roster.  What an absolute disaster.  But hey he’s our guy right ammo?

You always seem to forget that Gard was Bo's hand picked guy to succeed him.

Gard can't pay guys to stay. I guess you could step up and pay Chuckie $1,000,000 to stay.   You run your mouth like you have the money.

I read that bench guy Isaac Lindsey also left.

Do you think there’s a connection with donors not wanting to provide more dollars because of Gard as the head coach?

In this day and age it’s absolutely necessary to have a HC that can engage and attract good players.  That’s a big question mark with Gard.  

Badgers towel boy and equipment manager has entered the portal.

Lol that’s about right tsr

The Badgers are in serious trouble and there’s little to no strategy go get out of this mess.  And anyone that thinks Gard isn’t a big part of the problem needs their head examined.

Hey ammo - is or was Ryan the AD?  I don’t think so.  But the only reason he got this job is because he was attached to Ryan.  Only he’s not even close to Bo Ryan in just about any comparison.

Ammo would suggest let’s attack that SW Wisco HS circuit for the next try hard guy to give the grit and effort to get them to 9 wins next year.  

Why Gard hasn’t been fired 3 times over already is beyond me.  The only decent players they have are bailing and I’d argue is they know he’s not up to the task and are getting out before the hammer drops.  In all honesty - right now if this current team played UWGB they lose by 20.

If McIntosh keeps him well then he should update his resume as well.

Wisconsin isn’t Kansas or Kentucky or UCLA or Indiana in terms of legacy but JFC they aren’t a D2 or D3 program either.  That is where Gard should be leading a program.

Extended through 2029 #tschmackscoach

Who would not like to play for him?

Lol not sure that “extension” means anything considering timing and want they did for other coaches.

What is relevant is Gard is paid as a top 20 coach.  If you think that translates to rankings or performance you would be sadly mistaken.  

He’s a top 50-60 coach at best.  

Go ahead and debate the math or numbers but that’s the bottom line.  And he’s not living up to fucking expectations unless the genius that is ammo is running UW athletics.

@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:

Extended through 2029 #tschmackscoach

Grow a mustache and flop on a wig, and you got Captain Kangaroo.

I mean credit to him. He’s married a supermodel and got away with it.

Problem is the bill is due and he’s got 120 dollars to his name.

Was listening to Bill Michaels today while driving.  He reported A J Storr had a hand shake agreement to go to Illinois at the end of the season.  He reportedly had made this agreement back in February.  So when the Badgers were fighting for a B1G title Storr was already knowing where he was going.  But then Kansas stepped in with more money and the agreement went bye bye.  NCAA has to do something about this.  There currently is nothing to prevent tampering in college athletics.  Could you imagine having a teammate that was going to the team you were playing against for a conference or maybe a NCAA  championship? Michaels said he would sometime have to bust him in the mouth.

How many here thought this paying players was because some couldn’t afford a pizza or take their date to a movie?  That was how it was explained in some quarters, at least that’s what I recall.

This is way to Wild West, some control is needed before the whole of college big time sports is beyond repair.  

It has turned out that all the very best players are free agents all the time.  Sure they have to finish the season but they can always explore and even make an undisclosed deal before the season is over.  Must be an expensive pizza and maybe they are flying their date to Paris to see a movie.   

Pikes Peak comment about the Wild West is slightly inaccurate. It's not the way to the Wild West. It is the wild west.

I know someone very well (a member of my extended family) who graduated as an Academic-All American in 4 years from a lower NCAA division school and entered the transfer portal in February and was immediately was contacted by over 20 schools. He will get to do a masters degree next year in a Power 5 program and make a small amount of NIL money. It's great for him. But even for a guy who will be a complementary player next year and not a star, the process is insane. My daughter was a D1 athlete in track 10 years ago but that recruitment process was very regulated back then. Only so many calls per month from each school and only so many visits. The process now has no rules whatsoever. Some of these kids have multiple text chains going simultaneously negotiating in real time for NIL money from several different schools.

Chucky Hepburn is rumored to have been offered 750K to play next year in Louisville. He averaged 9 points a game last year. That's what it took for a guy who has a Badger tattoo to leave town (and a tourney team) and play for a team that went 8-24 last year. He's not even good enough to play in Europe, so I guess he has to chase the money while he can.

AJ Storr will play for his 7th school in 7 years next year. He moved every year in high school and went to the highest bidder this year. It should be no surprise he was looking for his next stop while he was still a Badger. The problem was that they lost Essegian because of this.

I have lost all enthusiasm for college basketball in the last two years. Why should anyone care anymore? It's a race to assemble a new AAU team every year. Player development is a thing of the past.

Duke's entire team entered either the draft or the portal because they were bringing in 5-6 potential one and dones.

It will be interesting to see which colleges or universities get to the point of just throwing in the towel and getting rid of some basketball programs. As we discussed earlier in the thread, it's not even clear if these guys go to class anymore. And if you have to pay a minimum of 4-5 million dollars to build a competitive basketball roster every year, it's going to price some of the low-level D1 schools out. If you don't pay out the money you just end up being the Washington Generals every year and if you get lucky and develop a few kids and have some success, those kids are being recruiting behind the scenes by schools with more NIL money while they are still finishing out their season. Those kids leave and you are back to being the Washington Generals again

Sad state of affairs.

Chucky headed to Louisville?

@Pikes Peak posted:

Chucky headed to Louisville?

Yes. Now official.

https://www.cbssports.com/coll...ex-wiscconsin-guard/

@Pikes Peak posted:

How many here thought this paying players was because some couldn’t afford a pizza or take their date to a movie?  That was how it was explained in some quarters, at least that’s what I recall.

This is way to Wild West, some control is needed before the whole of college big time sports is beyond repair.  

Yep it was sold as not having enough money to buy a pizza or get a haircut.  I have always supported giving the players some money (and still do) because the NCAA has profited from them for decades.  But this is just out of control and I know a lot of college sports fans like myself who are just souring on college sports.   

But, when you hear things like Arch Manning making around 4M a year and he really hasn't played yet is just insane to me.  There were also some local reports here that some O$U boosters were trying to put together a deal for Marvin Harrison to make more in 1-2  years than he would have with a rookie NFL contract. 

The NCAA has always been an inept organization but where are they now? I guess they just threw up their hands and said f**k it we will just let it be so we don't get sued again.

@The Heckler posted:

Yep it was sold as not having enough money to buy a pizza or get a haircut.  I have always supported giving the players some money (and still do) because the NCAA has profited from them for decades.  But this is just out of control and I know a lot of college sports fans like myself who are just souring on college sports.   

But, when you hear things like Arch Manning making around 4M a year and he really hasn't played yet is just insane to me.  There were also some local reports here that some O$U boosters were trying to put together a deal for Marvin Harrison to make more in 1-2  years than he would have with a rookie NFL contract.

The NCAA has always been an inept organization but where are they now? I guess they just threw up their hands and said f**k it we will just let it be so we don't get sued again.

The whole Quinn Ewers thing is the best demonstration of the madness of the whole system.

Arch Manning is sitting on the bench at Texas making 4 million because they have Quinn Ewers. Ewers started his career at Ohio State where he got paid 1.4 million in NIL money to kneel down for 2 snaps in one game as a freshman. At OSU, he played behind CJ Stroud and Kyle McCord (both also making major NIL themselves).

Kyle McCord was 12-1 as the OSU QB last year, but transferred to Syracuse because OSU was only paying him 300K and Ryan Day recruiting a 5-star QB this year to replace him that's making more than that. McCord is rumored to make 6 figures at Syracuse.

Maalik Murphy was also a QB at Texas last year, but he just transferred to Duke for 250K.

Ewers came back to Texas and now, and I'm not kidding, has an NIL deal with a private jet company.

https://athlonsports.com/colle...private-jet-nil-deal

So, yeah it's not about making sure that a kid can take his girlfriend out for pizza and a movie on a weekend date night. It's still the same amounts of insane money, but now it goes to a bunch of 19 and 20 year old kids who shop themselves around to the highest bidder instead of to the universities. It's fairer for the players, but at least some of that money was what funded some of what universities are supposed to be about - paying college professors, upgrading equipment to educate the next generation, providing scholarships for kids that actually want to attend classes.

I don't think the current system of providing private jets for college QBs is sustainable.

I don't begrudge players getting paid more.  If after the season Chucky figured out he could earn 3 times more, I can't blame him for that.

But if AJ was pimping himself out in Feb (when the team started to really slide), then fuck him and the horse he rode in on.   

I'm becoming more interested in women's sports, now. Women's Basketball, Volleyball and Hockey seems to be as exciting, to me, as any men's college sports are. Love the NCAA Men's tournament, though. But all the NIL crap can end.

Badgers snag a RB from Oklahoma,  Tawee Walker.   Walker had some good stats as a junior, rushing for 513 yards, 7 TDs on 102 rushes.  Walker will pair with Mellusi to make a formidable tandem in the backfield.

Badgers will be stacked at RB this year.  They already had a couple of studs (commits) for this season but Walker is a good get and Mellusi returning gives them a lot of options.  

Badgers land 4 star recruit Mason Posa at Linebacker.   They also re-flipped 3 star DL Torin Pettaway  back to the  Badgers  and away from the Goophers.  He is from Middleton.

Badgers also landed 3 star recruit Eugene Hilton, son of former Colts All Pro T. Y. Hilton.   Wisconsin beat out Georgia, Michigan and Miami and others to sign Hilton.

By most accounts, the Badgers had a top 20 recruiting class for 2024.  

For 2025, Rivals has them listed in the top 5 (4th overall) behind Ohio State, Notre Dame, and Alabama.

Fickell and staff really getting after it.  

Badgers landed a very highly touted OL prospect from Massachusetts in Hardy Watts.  He was rated as a top 10 interior line prospect in the country.  

This comes on the heels of landing 5 star specialist Erik Schmidt.  He had been rated as the top punter in the country and a top 10 kicking specialist.  

Overall, the 2025 class is regarded top 10-15 depending on where you are looking.