Pos/Neg's Lions Packers

Getting drunk  187 ml's at  a time.

+ Maybe, just maybe, a game like today will make it clear to the powers that be, that Rodgers has covered up some real weaknesses through the years.  maybe they will decide to make a consorted effort to upgrade as many positions as possible through whatever means the can.  o-line, d-line, inside linebackers, safeties...lots ogarage as to improve...and that is with or without injuries.

The presser was as exciting as the game.  Yow Mikey!  Sometimes getting emotional is good. 

+ We got some turnovers, finally. But it all went for naught.

- Most embarrasing Packer performance in a long, long time. They should all be ashamed, even AR12 was disgusted and threw his clipboard in anger after watching this suckfest Packer game.

The really disturbing thing is that clipboard had more velocity on it than any of Flynn's throws.

Positives:

Jeremy Ross is finally starting to live up to his potential.

Negatives:

Jeremy Ross is living up to his potential in a game against the Pack instead of for them.

negative: Packers fans are freaking out. After all the losses to injuries this year it is unreasonable to expect the Packers to be anything but a bad team.

I not sure in a league that is short of quality starting QB how  anyone would expect the Packers to Pick one up off the scrap heap mid season.

It really looks to me something is wrong with Flynn's arm, he has no strength  in it.

Yes the defense looks bad but it is design to take advantage of an offence that is scoring a lot of points. It is not a defense that can slug it out and stay all day on the field.

The Packers safeties are bad. 

Positives. Some of the Packers up coming free Agents are getting cheaper to sign each game.

I think it's more of a concern than freakin out - at least the majority of it, outside WTMJ radio anyway.  Even some of the extreme pollies within this board are getting concerned. I agree that injuries are a factor; heck, I'll even say root cause, but there is no apologizing for that D.  

I don't post often, maybe every few months, and I admit when I do it's usually after a loss. For that reason, I get ripped, especially by some guy named Henry. I'll admit my posts are redundant. In short, they are anti-Hawk and anti-Capers.

There were a lot of I told you so's at the beginning of the year when Hawk amazingly made some plays, but then the Genie's wish lapsed as November came around and Hawk was once again... Hawk. Before today's game, with the entire extended family around, I replayed practically every single play, slo-moed, with focus on Hawk. By the end of the game everyone, even the Hawk lovers, even the 8-10 year olds with Hawk Jerseys, was convinced he was awful.

With all the bad play today that spotlighted our problems, at safety, the O'line, back-up QB... I am still convinced that the single biggest reason our defense is so bad is because Hawk is the worst ILB in the NFl... in the last 50 years of the NFL... maybe ever. Hyperbole?... he's small, he's slow, can't tackle, gets run over or runs backwards, can't blitz, can't cover, and is the main reason teams have been able to exploit the middle of the defense for the last few years. 

I know, I know, we won the Super Bowl with him, he's always available, he calls the plays, he gives himself up so others can make plays, he loves Green Bay, he plays hard, he has a great family, yada, yada, yada...

I actually like him on a personal level, but as long as he's our enforcer in the middle, we will continue to be embarrassed and give up record yards.

As for Capers... I realize we won a Super Bowl with him, and lost Jenkins and Collins and Woodson and TT hasn't given him a lot of Pro Bowl level players to work with, and it's not the scheme it's the players, yada yada yada. But the players aren't as horrible as they've shown. Raji, Jolly and Pickett are good football players. Shields, Tramon and Burnett are way above average DB's. Mathews is a Super Star and Perry is rising and played well today. So what went wrong today? Capers. Today and for the last few years. Under his watch we've been embarrassed over and over again giving up record yards both rushing and passing. And no adjustments and no one held accountable. Nothing. Ever. Am I the only one who liked Lattimore enough to think that when Jones came back maybe he should replace Hawk instead of Lattimore? I don't think so. Others suggested the same thing. But whether it even entered Capers head we'll never know, but I doubt it because that would have meant taking a risk. Lattimore, who had been killing it, and is faster, stronger, and has better instincts than Hawk, was sent back to special teams and languished on the bench while Hawk was running around in circles trying to find ballcarriers already past him.

Every other post on Packer forums today says something to the effect that Rodgers covered up the fact that we have really bad football players. I say we don't. What Rodgers covered up is that we have a really bad ILB and a really bad Defensive coordinator.

Now rip.

Where are the injuries on defense other than Heyward?  There is no excuse for giving up almost 500 yards rushing in two games.

+

Perry's strip sack

Crosby

-

MM and Capers and coaches

Flynn sitting on bench like he was on a park bench at the beach...meanwhile Tolzien studies plays and pics

Playcalling predictable again

There's no question that our LBs - especially ILBs- have not played well.   That's been a problem for a couple of seasons now.  Hawk is very ordinary and Brad Jones peaked before his injury and is back to being just another guy.   Personally, I'd go back to Lattimore next week and never look back.   Too bad Francois got hurt because I'd make the move with him as well.   I think the OLBs have played OK but they've been exposed in terms of holding the edge on run D.   CMIII has been great at rushing the passer but teams have figured out if he commits inside the OT then you run right at him.  Neal and Perry have shown some ability as well but we need more of that and they've been inconsistent.

The other glaring weakness is the safety position opposite Burnett, but I'm not totally leaving Burnett off the hook either.   He's an above average player but no difference maker.   The problem is Nick Collins was so good he covered up a lot of mistakes back there.   

In terms of the other DBs, Shields is a keeper but his performance yesterday was alarmingly bad.  He has a tendency of playing lazy at times and that has to be corrected.   Hayward is probably their 2nd best corner but he's hurt.   Tramon has actually played pretty well I think but he's never returned to 2010 form and given what he's being paid I don't think he'll be back next year.   Davon House drives me absolutely nuts.   He might be the most up and down guy on the whole damn roster. 

I think they have something in Micah Hyde as a nickel or dime DB but he's been exposed at times as well.

Then there's the DL.   Probably the most frustrating group (overall) on the squad.  When I watched yesterday it was obvious they could not get off their blocks.   For all his talent Raji has been a ghost and that's mind boggling because he has talent and he's in a contract year.   I think Pickett might be done.   Jolly was fantastic earlier in the year but he might have hit a wall.   Daniels and Datone Jones have shown flashes but maybe next year they become more full time type players, not sure.   CJ Wilson sucks but what else is new.

If I had to list priorities going into the 2014 season they absolutely have to address the safety position and at least one of the ILB positions.   I think you could survive with either Jones or Hawk but having both guys in there is a recipe for disaster.   I like Burnett and I think he could eventually become a very good player but right now he's covering up the other (bad) safety in MD Jennings and they must find a guy there. 

"If I had to list priorities going into the 2014 season they absolutely have to address the safety position and at least one of the ILB positions.   I think you could survive with either Jones or Hawk but having both guys in there is a recipe for disaster.   I like Burnett and I think he could eventually become a very good player but right now he's covering up the other (bad) safety in MD Jennings and they must find a guy there."

I agree, safety then an ILB. Brad Jones is worse than Hawk. Forget draft position. Jones has never done anything. I would prefer to replace both, but if it's either or, I think Jones is the one to go.

Can you replace 3 or 4 defensive players (safeties, ILB, maybe a D-lineman) with one draft?

Yes

No you can not replace 3 to 4 guys on defense with one draft. Do not forget the Packers desperately need a TE. MM loves TE.
The team is no ware near as bad as some posters are make them out to be. The team is having a down year it happens. Some of you poster need to be timed warped back into the 70's and 80's.

I don't know. part of the problem is that the drafted players are 'serviceable' but aren't playmakers, I would like to see him change track and hit FA a little bit this offseason to try and get some proven talent, no guarantees - sure, but IT IS TIME.

Negative: For the first time ever, I fell asleep watching a Packers game.

Pawsitive: I was really well rested.

#Please sit Arod for the rest of the year. This oline sucks.

+ I enjoy the fact that HUD made his family watch AJ Hawk in slow motion to point out he is the worst linebacker in 50 years...going to all this trouble without understanding the concept of a mike v. ted  in a 3-4...how Hawk has had to switch back and forth in these roles, call plays while adjusting to the likes of Jones, Palmer, Mulamba, Lattimore with limited safety help and anchoring of the DL----yet leading the team in tackles....and will finish his career as the all time leading packer tackler.

-but yes....I agree....Hawk could be better

Playoffs? You figure it out. I'd rather stick a fork in my eye.

+ 

we move up in the draft

the season is almost over

we won't make the playoffs and get killed once there

our guys on IR are getting healthier by the day

I survived the relatives for another year

--

the season is almost over

I've had to learn to live with what it's like post-AR

quote:

No you can not replace 3 to 4 guys on defense with one draft.

Not sure about 3-4 guys just on defense, but there have been past GBP drafts that worked out pretty well in terms of finding several very good players.

How about 1993?  Simmons, Teague, Doug Evans, Earl Dotson.  Think 2000.  Tauscher, Franks, Clifton, KGB, Diggs.   Think the 2009 and 2010 drafts.  CMIII, Raji, Lang, Burnett, Bulaga, Neal.   The 2012 draft looks pretty good as well assuming those guys can stay healthy.  Perry, Worthy, Hayward, Daniels.

It can be done - but the Packers clearly haven't lucked out with injuries either.  

-Clay still wears a soft cast for his thumb. 

-Perry, Shields and Jolly all played after missing the last two games (Jolly 1 game).  The fact the played doesn't mean they're healthy and/or effective as could be if not healthy.

-Worthy and Wilson also were both inactive which makes the rotation on the D-line a bi thin.

-Lattimore, who played well a few weeks ago as a replacement, has been banged up and inactive the past few weeks. 

NOt making excuses, but I think a big part of the defense's wart the past few weeks has been the inability for the offense to move the ball, score points, TOP and keep the D off the field.

"NOt making excuses, but I think a big part of the defense's wart the past few weeks has been the inability for the offense to move the ball, score points, TOP and keep the D off the field."

The Lions took the opening kickoff and walked down the field and would have scored, but Matthews forced a fumble inside the 10. The Lions didn't punt until like the 4th quarter. The Lions had almost 600 yards in offense. Kind of hard to lay that on the offense, no matter how bad it was.

Yes, the offense sucked and should have turned some of those TOs into points. But I  saw no indication the defense could even slow the Lions down, let alone stop them.

You don't see a correlation between TOP and yards?? 

You don't think the 20+ minutes to 10+ minutes first half TOP had anything to do with the packer D getting gassed in the second half???

You don't think Rodgers turns some of those TOs (maybe all of them) into points?? 

You don't think that with points off of TOs, the packers may have had a couple TD lead???  And in doing so, the Lion's go a bit one-dimensional on offense???

Did you think the D was this bad when Rodgers was under center on offense and the Pckers were sitting at 5-2???

Just wondering.

+ FG, Punts, Perry, CMIII, 4 TOs by D

- epic FAIL OL, epic FAIL ILBs, epic FAIL Ss

So we get 4 TO and lose 40-10, O scores 1 net point, D gives up 500 rushing yards in 2 games. You can't win with our crap OL and crap interior D. And this OL will get AR killed. Lacy has been a miracle worker behind those stiffs. 

At one point Flynn had 8 hits in 11 dropbacks. It seemed sometimes they were on Flynn before the ball. Wake up McCarthy. Under those conditions, about all you can do is screens, quick slants, quickies to the TE or Backs, and Lacy. Just move the chains because our interior D can't stop anyone even with 4 turnovers.

And when AR comes back, do the same thing until we get some durable OL. They've already made AR miss 5 games and now newhouse in there (even occasionally) will keep AR running for his life.

All these things play a part, but one of the major things I have noticed is the failure of our D to get stops when needed. Teams walk down the field on us as if our D was the parting of the Red Sea. What we desperately need is our D to hold the other team to their 20 or a minimum of the 30 to give our O some field position. Why did we come back against the Queens? We finally got some stops and shortened the field for our offense. When our D does get a stop, it's close to mid-field and the other team's punter puts it down at our 10-20. That poor field position is forcing a second-string guy who has, in essence, hardly played in two years and who has a weak arm, to go 80+ every drive. If our D would get some quality stops, the field shortens for our O and we stand a chance because it opens up the run and the pass.

To add to your point, the O doesn't move the ball with Flynn/Tolzien/Wallace and the opponent often has great field position to begin with.

Field position and time of possession are huge factors in the defenses inabilities the past 5 weeks.

It all starts upfront the OLine flat out got their collective ass kicked.  Newhouse is horrible, so bad that Sherrod got to play.  Bacteria got ate up yesterday, perverbial rookie wall?  I'd love to see the offensive line when healthy with Buluga, Sitton, EDS (Tretter), Lang and BArclay (sherrod).  I think that is a line to build on.

Defensively lots of help need More stout DLine and  ILBs, better safety play, and hopefully a healthy combo of Neal/Perry (there are flashes there folks) to go oppo CMIII.

Gravedigger you are right and it confirms my point about "players not plays". A coach can only get so much out of a so so player and some of ours may not even be so so. They loook lost on defense and overpowered on the OL.

About the only part of the game I enjoyed was the Star Spangled Banner. I thought the girl was some new awful disney pop act.  Boy was I wrong.  It found it to be a graceful version.  



I'd sure as heck like to know what happened to the Dline.  It was embarrassing.  Noticed Pickett getting pushed around a bit and Raji is out of his mind if he thinks anyone is paying him 8 million.  Davon House can not tackle.  He was way too hesitant.  Is Baktiari hurt?  Looked to be limping after a few plays and he got bum rushed several times. 

tit

I think both Wilson and Worthy being out screwed up the rotation.  Raji and Pickett have been getting too many snaps this late in the season with the TOP so lopsided!

Jolly was off for a few years and wasn't in great football shape coming back, Pickett's not football young, Raji's a chunkasaurus and with Worthy and Wilson trying to come back from injury they get worn down. I missed some parts yestay as I was cooking but two things happened whenever I got to watch: Suh (or another Lion) was blowing by Newhouse and Hawk was nowhere to be found in the hole. Jones made a couple of plays but was also washed out a couple of times. Hawk and Newhouse are liabilities on the field and the offensive line in general got no push against Detroit. It also seemed the Packers got a sack or a turnover or were nowhere near Stafford. Things seemed to happen when they pressured him, but it didn't happen nearly enough.