I would guess, a good percent of nfl players use hgh, that's why the union has been fighting testing of it since the new CBA. Brett favre comes to mind as front runner for use, Turrell Suggs, AP, just to name a few.
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
AP did something that NO ATHLETE HAD EVER DONE- recover in 6 months from a shredded knee and play better than he ever had. How is that related to CMIII and a development progression in his teenage years?
Derek Rose is trying to come back a year after a similar injury. He's not even close. Not better, not even close.
So which is more likely? AP redefines rehabilitation by simply working harder than anyone ever has in recovery? Or he had pharma help? And remember- we were all told about Lance Armstrong's super human ability to burn lactic a is in his muscles for energy, thus giving him that extra endurance he used to win 7 TDFs. Until we found out he was on steroids. Mark McGuire was chronically injured until he found the needle. Roger Clemens was old until he started using. Barry Bonds was great but then became super human. PEDs.
Maybe Clay Matthews was on the juice, maybe not. But AP... is there really any doubt? Haven't we learned from the past group of liars?
Define "recovered". He played in his first regular season game 8 months after the injury. He still wasn't "recovered".
The word on Derek Rose is that he could have been playing for some time now, but the mental effects of the injury are what is stopping him. You're not really in the ballpark on the comments about him.
So you're POSITIVE that AP is on some sort of PED, but "maybe" CM3 is?
LOL.
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:
So, AP's rehab is far more reasonable than a human cleanly putting on 80+ lbs of muscle in 3-4 years.
Your "knowledge" here is anecdotal, yes?
If you have some experience or qualifications that make you smarter than the people you're trying to make look stupid, here would be a good place to interject them.
Admit it...you don't "know" any more than any of the dum-dums who can't stop themselves from trying to argue with you.
I can live with that. I will clarify it as such:
AP's rehab is far more reasonable "to me" than a human cleanly putting on 80+ lbs of muscle in 3-4 years.
Ya, but that has more to do with the fact that you are so ****ing objective, doesn't it?
quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:
AP's rehab is far more reasonable "to me" than a human cleanly putting on 80+ lbs of muscle in 3-4 years.
Based on what?
You have some professional knowledge?. Personal experience? Read it on a Vikings blog someplace?
Stop changing the subject.
Are you on record here with the opinion that Peterson's miraculous and unprecedented recovery and subsequent near record-settling performance from a completely reconstructed knee was natural? That he didn't use PEDs?
And on topic, I believe that RGIII, if he were to recover similarly, would be equally guilty.
Are you on record here with the opinion that Peterson's miraculous and unprecedented recovery and subsequent near record-settling performance from a completely reconstructed knee was natural? That he didn't use PEDs?
And on topic, I believe that RGIII, if he were to recover similarly, would be equally guilty.
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
Stop changing the subject.
Are you on record here with the opinion that Peterson's miraculous and unprecedented recovery and subsequent near record-settling performance from a completely reconstructed knee was natural? That he didn't use PEDs?
And on topic, I believe that RGIII, if he were to recover similarly, would be equally guilty.
I have no idea if he used PEDs or not. Just like any packler fan accusing AP or RG3 of using PEDs has no idea.......do you see that? Where it all started?
But, as the packler fans are on AP/RG3, I am convinced that CM3 is a roid head. All I need to do is look at his freakish muscle mass gain in a short time, and his chronic hammy problems. Both sure signs that he is a roid head.
See how I did that?
I'm of the opinion it's possible both or neither used them. Peterson's recovery seems more.... ridiculous (?) just because the timeframe was so shortened and it's not like he doesn't have an injury history but I don't think that's definitive/proof either.
One of the big problems with steroid use was that many players weren't using them "as intended", they were using utterly obscene amounts for longer periods than was reasonable.
One of the big problems with steroid use was that many players weren't using them "as intended", they were using utterly obscene amounts for longer periods than was reasonable.
quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:
Why do you keep screaming "7 years"?
With the modern medicine of today, knee injuries are being routinely rehabbed in under a year.
So, AP's rehab is far more reasonable than a human cleanly putting on 80+ lbs of muscle in 3-4 years.
quote:β’ Much has been made about the physical transformation Matthews made from high school to the end of his college career. This is by far the flimsiest βevidenceβ against Matthews. His junior year in high school to his redshirt senior year at USC was a span of seven years ranging from when he was 15 to 22. Let that sink in for a second. Naturally adding 75 pounds over that time period is hardly a stretch, especially considering the weight-lifting at programs like USC are not far off from the NFL.
Every player in the NFL uses PEDs, only dopes who look at the game through the eyes of a 10 year old boy argue with that. It's just hilarious to see fans pin PED use on players for rival teams, while defending the players on their own favorite team. Adrian Peterson uses PEDs, Clay Matthews uses PEDs, everyone uses PEDs. Grow up, and get over it. These HGH blood tests won't mean a thing once they hit the league. These guys have millions of dollars and and endless supply of world class doctors at their disposal, and they'll always be three steps ahead of the testers.
Somebody bounce this f-ing troll...
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Good post, Pack Man.
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:quote:Originally posted by Jaymo:
So, AP's rehab is far more reasonable than a human cleanly putting on 80+ lbs of muscle in 3-4 years.
Your "knowledge" here is anecdotal, yes?
If you have some experience or qualifications that make you smarter than the people you're trying to make look stupid, here would be a good place to interject them.
Admit it...you don't "know" any more than any of the dum-dums who can't stop themselves from trying to argue with you.
Early nomination for "Post of the Year" honors?
completely un-inform-ed opinion, but I think scads of NFL players use some sort of banned substance (which enhances performance)(not sexual performance)(not cheeto eating performance). Clay may very well be one of them.
But 17 year olds gaining wieght and muscle when introduced to a highly specialized training program in D1 college? Yeah, that probably happens all the time, HGH or not. I gained 60 Lbs. from HS Sr to College Soph and that was on beer alone.
But 17 year olds gaining wieght and muscle when introduced to a highly specialized training program in D1 college? Yeah, that probably happens all the time, HGH or not. I gained 60 Lbs. from HS Sr to College Soph and that was on beer alone.
quote:Originally posted by Pack-Man:
Every player in the NFL uses PEDs, only dopes who look at the game through the eyes of a 10 year old boy argue with that. It's just hilarious to see fans pin PED use on players for rival teams, while defending the players on their own favorite team. Adrian Peterson uses PEDs, Clay Matthews uses PEDs, everyone uses PEDs. Grow up, and get over it. These HGH blood tests won't mean a thing once they hit the league. These guys have millions of dollars and and endless supply of world class doctors at their disposal, and they'll always be three steps ahead of the testers.
My issue isn't PED's, it's the "insert player here is superhuman in his recovery abilities!"
ββββ
I agree. There is no such thing as a "superhuman performance;" there is no such thing as a "freak of nature." If you follow the history of sports, you will see a natural progression. Unusual jumps in performance are usually discovered to be "enhanced" in some way. I'm waiting to see if Usaine Bolt is ever discovered.
I agree. There is no such thing as a "superhuman performance;" there is no such thing as a "freak of nature." If you follow the history of sports, you will see a natural progression. Unusual jumps in performance are usually discovered to be "enhanced" in some way. I'm waiting to see if Usaine Bolt is ever discovered.
quote:there is no such thing as a "freak of nature."
Depending on your point of view, Stella Walsh may have been a freak.
Are you saying AP has a vagina?
99% of them will never get caught. And in most cases of the 1% who do manage to get caught, it is because they were careless and/or arrogant. Lance Armstrong was caught mostly because he greatly enjoyed thumbing his nose at his accusers and did everything he possibly could to destroy them. Once you stripped away his carefully crafted public image, it revealed a nasty, vindictive human being, the sort of person that journalists and fame-seeking prosecutors love to tear down. If he had just kept his mouth shut and ignored the accusations, he would probably still be a national icon.quote:Originally posted by pduck:
ββββ
I agree. There is no such thing as a "superhuman performance;" there is no such thing as a "freak of nature." If you follow the history of sports, you will see a natural progression. Unusual jumps in performance are usually discovered to be "enhanced" in some way. I'm waiting to see if Usaine Bolt is ever discovered.
quote:Originally posted by pduck:
...If you follow the history of sports, you will see a natural progression. Unusual jumps in performance are usually discovered to be "enhanced" in some way...
Absolutely, pduck!
It was just a few short years ago when the dreaded ACL/MCL injuries occured, it was at least a year before the player returned. And it was still 50/50 whether they could play at pre-injury level.
More recently, the "turn-around time" has been reduced to about 9 months. Advances in procedures, rehab methods, and/or the players themselves may play a part in this, but my opinion is that HGH plays just as large of role than any other factor.
And, even though the players are returning from these injuries faster than ever before, they typically don't have the acceleration and speed until the following year.
A perfect example of all the above is our own JerMichael Finley.
Now, AP completely obliterates the norm? And I'm supposed to believe he's that much more determined than all other athletes rehabbing an injury, and that's why he accomplished what he did? And his body is just that much better than anyone who has ever played in the NFL?
Say.....does anybody else smell smoke?
I do not share that opion that everyone uses. I do believe that the majority are not using.
But it also depends on the term "PED", too. Baseball players started doing reds to "pep up" during a long season. Tobacco has the same effect. Is Red Bull a PED? Caffeine? Even cocaine? You could really say that all of it is.
But HGH, anabolic steroids, and synthetic testerone do something different. they create an environment that allows the body to perform in ways it would never naturally be able to do.
There's no doubt in my mind that players are trying to avoid or recover form injury by using. I think Braun did that- to get rid of a troublesome leg injury, he used. McGuire did it, because he couldn't stay healthy. Peterson did it, too.
And there's a growing movement in the media that saying that it should be allowed. I don't agree. I think the leagues should continue to pursue these guys. I refuse to be that cynical.
But it also depends on the term "PED", too. Baseball players started doing reds to "pep up" during a long season. Tobacco has the same effect. Is Red Bull a PED? Caffeine? Even cocaine? You could really say that all of it is.
But HGH, anabolic steroids, and synthetic testerone do something different. they create an environment that allows the body to perform in ways it would never naturally be able to do.
There's no doubt in my mind that players are trying to avoid or recover form injury by using. I think Braun did that- to get rid of a troublesome leg injury, he used. McGuire did it, because he couldn't stay healthy. Peterson did it, too.
And there's a growing movement in the media that saying that it should be allowed. I don't agree. I think the leagues should continue to pursue these guys. I refuse to be that cynical.
MLB probably has the strictest policy of all the sports yet there are still guys that are caught using from time to time. I have no proof of this but in the NFL I would bet the usage of PEDs is much greater in the NFL because they either don't screen or test enough or they don't cast a wide enough net on banned substances.
In baseball, guys like Bonds and Sosa and McGwire didn't pass the eyeball test but physical appearance alone won't determine if someone is using or not. Strength training, nutrition, and medical care (in general) have improved dramatically over the years to a point where even normal athletes can perform at a high level on the court or field or stadium.
As for Peterson, there is a first for everything and maybe he recovered without the use of PEDs. The guy is a freakish athlete to begin with and these guys have world class trainers and facilities and doctors to help them along the way.
But I do think it's a fair question to ask if him (and a lot of others in the NFL including our guy CMIII) are using something to give them an edge. Pro football hasn't exactly been squeaky clean over the years with steroid usage among some players, and until they improve their testing policy there will always be questions.
In baseball, guys like Bonds and Sosa and McGwire didn't pass the eyeball test but physical appearance alone won't determine if someone is using or not. Strength training, nutrition, and medical care (in general) have improved dramatically over the years to a point where even normal athletes can perform at a high level on the court or field or stadium.
As for Peterson, there is a first for everything and maybe he recovered without the use of PEDs. The guy is a freakish athlete to begin with and these guys have world class trainers and facilities and doctors to help them along the way.
But I do think it's a fair question to ask if him (and a lot of others in the NFL including our guy CMIII) are using something to give them an edge. Pro football hasn't exactly been squeaky clean over the years with steroid usage among some players, and until they improve their testing policy there will always be questions.
quote:Originally posted by Tschmack:
I have no proof of this but in the NFL I would bet the usage of PEDs is much greater in the NFL because they either don't screen or test enough or they don't cast a wide enough net on banned substances.
If a player comes into the league clean, his mandatory testing is done at set intervals with lots of time in between, and they are given the test date a couple months in advance.
If he tests pos for anything on the list at any time, the long intervals and any kind of notice go out the door. Among other consequences, of course, but these are a couple of them that are part of the deal, but aren't publicized.
quote:But I do think it's a fair question to ask if him (and a lot of others in the NFL including our guy CMIII) are using something to give them an edge. Pro football hasn't exactly been squeaky clean over the years with steroid usage among some players, and until they improve their testing policy there will always be questions.
You can call that a "fair question" but do you have any realistic expectation you're going to get a straight answer? Even thinking about asking the question is a complete waste of time.
quote:Originally posted by Music City:
I do not share that opion that everyone uses. I do believe that the majority are not using.
You will feel differently, when your head pops out of your ass.
If that is truly the protocol (2 months notice) then the testing is a complete joke. 2 months is more than enough advance to clean out your system of just about any illegal substance.
The 2 months is just the advance notice, not the time between tests. NFL players who've never tested positive for anything only get tested a couple times a year.
It's a system that both sides agreed to and it's why the presumption that most players are using something is a pretty safe bet. I don't believe they're all taking substances designed to add bulk, but there's a lot of other non-anabolic products on the list that are very effective for a variety of uses.
It's a system that both sides agreed to and it's why the presumption that most players are using something is a pretty safe bet. I don't believe they're all taking substances designed to add bulk, but there's a lot of other non-anabolic products on the list that are very effective for a variety of uses.
Deer antler velvet! 
I line my bed with that stuff! 
quote:Originally posted by MN SnowBong:
there's a lot of other non-anabolic products on the list that are very effective for a variety of uses.
I know someone who'd like to know if there is something that shrinks the ass?
then shrink the head
You don't want any of what this guy is taking.
That dude is spending way too much time at the gym. Probably to compensate for being so funny-looking.