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OVERVIEW

Jones was not a household name outside of the Research Triangle during his time at North Carolina State, and was snubbed for all-conference honors by ACC coaches. League media recognized that he was an impact defender for the Wolfpack, however, giving him honorable mention notice in 2016 after he led the team with 109 tackles (four for loss) and three interceptions, also breaking up eight passes. Jones had started eight games as a true freshman, finishing second in the ACC with four interceptions (he also had seven pass break-ups for the year). In 2015, he was a solid starter but lacked many big plays (63 tackles, 2.5 for loss, one INT, two PBU).

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS

Possesses prototypical combination of size and speed. Has acceleration and top-end speed to range all over the field. Plus athletic ability and reactive quickness. Has ability to disguise his coverage before sprinting back to centerfield. Has experience with both safety spots. Fluid in his movement and is an explosive leaper when challenging at the high-point. Has the ball skills to rake it or take it. Plays with eager eyes that stay glued to quarterback's intentions. Has the closing burst to challenge throws. Extremely aggressive. Bouncy feet can't wait to fire downhill and hit something. Accelerates through the collision. Does a good job of punching and playing off of blockers.

WEAKNESSES

His aggression is a double-edged sword. Will come in too hot looking to lay the lumber and end up missing his mark as a tackler. Needs to do better job of coming to balance as a tackler. From zone coverage, can be a little slow to anticipate routes and squeeze the throwing windows. Gets hyper-focused on quarterback and will lose track of his assignments. Will bite on play-action bait and get drawn out of position.

DRAFT PROJECTION

Round 2

SOURCES TELL US

"This guy would just as soon hit you as look at you on the football field. Hey, it's fun to watch his tape because he's already got that NFL mentality to him, but he gets way out of control too. I saw that early on in the tape. You've got to rein him in a little bit." - AFC defensive backs coach

NFL COMPARISON

Mike Mitchell

BOTTOM LINE

Jones is a height-weight-speed prospect to be sure, but he's not just a traits-based safety. Jones has the appetite for hitting that teams will want around the box and he has the speed and ball skills to range and help against vertical threats from a deep safety spot. The big area of concern will be Jones' ability to play with better discipline in coverage and as a tackler. He has the ability to become a good, long-time starter in the league.

PLAYER OVERVIEW

A three-year starter at NC State, Jones started at strong safety his first two seasons for the Wolfpack before moving to free safety in 2016, spending most of his time in the boundary and seeing his productive skyrocket. He also saw snaps at cornerback and linebacker and lined up all over the formation as NC State's version of Jalen Ramsey. While he isn't the physical marvel that made Ramsey a top-five pick in the 2016 NFL Draft, Jones is a big, rangy athlete with the play strength, versatility and developing football intelligence that translate well to the NFL game.

 

After redshirting in 2013, he became a starter at strong safety as a freshman in 2014 (eight starts) and finished second in the ACC with four interceptions. Jones started 11 games as a sophomore in 2015 and posted 64 tackles, three passes defended and one interception. He started all 13 games at free safety as a junior in 2016 and led the team with 109 tackles, 11 passes defended and three interceptions, but was overlooked for the postseason All-ACC team.

STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES

STRENGTHS: Looks the part with his height, length and build. Explodes out of a cannon on his tackling angles, accelerating in a flash. Speedy in pursuit to track down ballcarriers from behind. Aggressive hug-and-finish tackler in the open field. Creates stopping power with his downhill demeanor. Physical take-on skills to attack and tear through blocks. Evades blocks with bobs and weaves, finding the ballcarrier in the lane. Quick diagnose skills to sense what is about to happen, keeping his eyes on the prize. Steady at the catch point to find the ball and finish interceptions. Versatile experience across the secondary, including inside cornerback and both safety spots (32 career starts). Improved focus, work habits and maturity in 2016, showing better accountability.

WEAKNESSES: Upright in his movements, lacking sink to smoothly redirect his momentum. Late to flip and attach to receivers in coverage, losing momentum to wasted steps. Bites on the backfield action. Anticipates well, but he is still learning how to recognize various limbs on the route tree. Struggles with double moves and combos. Needs to tweak his tackling technique to consistently wrap and finish. Pad level can be problematic at times. Wild hands when taking on contact, allowing blockers to attack his chest and drive him backwards.

--Dane Brugler (2/5/17)

Great ideas rooted in love.(R)

Last edited by Rusty
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I'm not that big a fan of a safety pick this early but I've been belly-aching about depth at that position for years so at least now I can stop crying about that.

Jones seems pretty inconsistent, a non-finished product and like King...more of an athlete than football player.  But that's kind of been Thompson M.O. in the defensive backfield...big and fast.  Hopefully these guys will be able to play.

The one thing that makes him a nice fit...every report out there says the same thing...interchangeable...like Clinton-Dix and Burnett, Jones should be able to play in the box or deep.

 

Again I don't understand why King/Jones would solve any issues with Randall/Rollins? They will all be on the field at the same time likely, we have no Sam Shields as our #1. You need 3 starting CBs in this league, Ted just added the 3rd to the 2 he already has drafted. If Randall/Rollins struggle again, there's no starter to cover for them. 

Last edited by Grave Digger

I remember Morgan Burnett being thought of similar to this guy in '09.  I believe Burnett had a private workout with the Pack and his athletic measurables wowed the Pack.  He was known to have questionable instincts, but his athleticism was the main reason the Pack picked him fairly high.

Sounds like this guy has some of those characteristics but might be bigger hitter than Burnett.

Grave Digger posted:

Again I don't understand why King/Jones would solve any issues with Randall/Rollins? They will all be on the field at the same time likely, we have no Sam Shields as our #1. You need 3 starting CBs in this league, Ted just added the 3rd to the 2 he already has drafted. If Randall/Rollins struggle again, there's no starter to cover for them. 

One big issue, they're both relatively short.

I like Hyde. He was great in run support. Smart football player that probably overachieved a little bit. But he did whatever he was asked to do as well as he could. But he wasn't athletic and he wasn't fast. Jones gives you everything Hyde did. But Jones is a great tackler. Far more physical than Hyde. Jones has 20 lbs on Hyde, taller and much faster. You can slide Jones to LB from time to time and he'll be fine. GB needed to get more athletic and faster on D. They did. 

Last edited by ChilliJon

From FoxSports:  15 steals in the 2017 NFL Draft

Link

 

FinnLander posted:

From FoxSports:  15 steals in the 2017 NFL Draft

Link

 

Montravius Adams made this list also.  

All three of our first picks are more "potential", rather than "production" guys. All of them have great scores for their position in combine events, but none of the three were voted to 1st or 2nd team all-conference by the coaches in their conferences. TT is putting a lot of trust in our coaches that they can get that potential to produce on the field. 

Laquon Treadwell was All American and First Team All SEC. Which is surprising because it looks like he doesn't know how to play football. 

Robert Nkemdiche was first and second team all American and All SEC Freshman of the year. Which is surprising because it looks like doesn't know how to play football. 

Justin Gilbert was first and second team all American. First team all big 12 by coaches and AP. First team Walter Camp all American. And college football writers defensive back of the year. Which is surprising because he didn't know how to play football. 

YooperPackfan posted:

Exactly!!! People get over zealous over draft picks based off potential. Case in point? Go read the comments in the Damarious Randall thread when he was drafted

Randall had a very good rookie season. 14 passes defended (top 10 total) and three picks. Last year was a huge disappointment. He needs to be 100% healthy this year so we see what he can actually do. But it's not like he hasn't shown he can play in the NFL. 

Exactly Chili. I think people overreact in general. They get overly excited about talented rookies and freak out about players struggling with injury. As much as we all love to prognosticate, 2 seasons isn't enough to predict Randall's career even if he had been healthy at all in year 2. Things change over time, players can develop physically, they can become more professional, etc. There's a reason rookie contracts generally go 4 years, it takes that long to see what you have in a player. 

It's amazing to me to hear some of the negative comments on 1st & 2ND round picks from only 2 years ago. 

So we drafted a few DB's. If you think R & R will curl up in the fetal position & cry themselves to sleep, you don't know competitive football players very well.

Generally takes 3-4 seasons for DB's to "get it". Remember Ozzie Newsome wanted Rollins. Pardon me while I side with Ozzie & TT.

Also our front 7 isn't exactly helping the young DB's by not getting to the QB. A little more harassment from our front 7 would go a long way to helping out our defense.

I'm hoping Josh Jones can add some toughness & create turnovers.

GrainBelt66 posted:

I think that burst and speed are actually part of being very athletic.

They can be but not on their own.  It's a big reason track star sprinters rarely make it on the football field.  Fast as lightning, stiff as a board.  Think of all the great BB big men who lumbered up and down the court.  Hyde just didn't have elite foot speed.

Brainwashed Boris posted:

It's amazing to me to hear some of the negative comments on 1st & 2ND round picks from only 2 years ago. 

It's what this fan base does...after year 2, many around here were ready to run Duh-vante out on a rail, and anoint Janis! as the 2nd coming of Bill Schroeder.

Every player can't be Clay Matthews or BJ Raji and make an impact out of the gate. As good as those guys were rookie year, they even made plenty of mistakes.

michiganjoe posted:

 

Thank, Ted.

Also right in front of Akhello Witherspoon, Larry Ogunjobi, Alex Anzalone and Chris Godwin and the slightest trade up could have netted Chidobe Awuzie, two of these are actually reliable corners even.

****.q!

Last edited by Herschel
packerboi posted:

Jones physically had all the tools you'd want. Between the ears, he just couldn't grasp his assignments or know where to line up. It doesn't matter how your built or what your speed is, if you don't know where to be in a much simpler defensive scheme with Pettine, you gotta' go. 

I think it was more than just not knowing assignments, IMHO he appears surly and a less-than-ideal-teammate. Not a guy that looks like he'd be enjoyable to coach. 

Only thing getting in Josh Jones way of a successful NFL career is Josh Jones. Not the first guy that felt the NFL didn't recognize his greatness. Won't be the last. 

Met Charles Woodson once. I will forever be pissed why I didn't ask him this question:

"How is it that you were the best player in high school, college, and NFL and still felt like you needed to show people how good you were?"

Instead I asked him a disposable "have you ever talked to Tom Brady about the tuck rule call?" question. 

I've posted this before, I will post it again. Leroy Butler said one of the key differences in being an average player vs good player vs a pro bowler vs an All Pro isn't some gaping hole in height, weight, hand size, or speed or even talent. 

All these NFL prospects fit into essentially the same main window in physical attributes for their respective position. It all comes down to the "little" stuff that in fact, isn't little at all. 

It's film review. It's paying close attention in position and team meetings. It's how you workout, not that you work out, but how. It's what you put it in your body. It's the amount of sleep you get. It's whether you are the one of the 1st to arrive at practice and one of the last to leave. It's do you pay attention to your mistakes AND then stop repeating them.

Just look at who and what Rodgers tends to praise and who and what he calls out in players he likes. It's that ^^^^ shit right there. It's why he loves guys like Jake Kumerow. He apparently does all of the above and it's a key reason guys like that are getting the football and J'Mon Moore is wondering WTH happened and why he's about to get cut despite that talent-wise, he was the most talented WR out of the 3 drafted in 2018

packerboi posted:

I've posted this before, I will post it again. Leroy Butler said one of the key differences in being an average player vs good player vs a pro bowler vs an All Pro isn't some gaping hole in height, weight, hand size, or speed or even talent. 

All these NFL prospects fit into essentially the same main window in physical attributes for their respective position. It all comes down to the "little" stuff that in fact, isn't little at all. 

It's film review. It's paying close attention in position and team meetings. It's how you workout, not that you work out, but how. It's what you put it in your body. It's the amount of sleep you get. It's whether you are the one of the 1st to arrive at practice and one of the last to leave. It's do you pay attention to your mistakes AND then stop repeating them.

Just look at who and what Rodgers tends to praise and who and what he calls out in players he likes. It's that ^^^^ shit right there. It's why he loves guys like Jake Kumerow. He apparently does all of the above and it's a key reason guys like that are getting the football and J'Mon Moore is wondering WTH happened and why he's about to get cut despite that talent-wise, he was the most talented WR out of the 3 drafted in 2018

And these things are all measurable.  All teams should have a psychologist on their scouting staff because it's what's between the ears that makes the difference.

It isn't just all the things mentioned in the past couple of posts (which all have merit). On top of those, some players just can't put instruction into action no matter how hard they try or how much studying they do. Bob Knight used to say "all look, but few see". I've had plenty of smart, hardworking players who were just "dumb" basketball players, and it is the same in every sport. 

"It's film review. It's paying close attention in position and team meetings. It's how you workout, not that you work out, but how. It's what you put it in your body. It's the amount of sleep you get. It's whether you are the one of the 1st to arrive at practice and one of the last to leave. It's do you pay attention to your mistakes AND then stop repeating them."

The issues of self awareness and discipline are inarguable. But much of the rest is dependent on coaches who can identify weaknesses and remedies AND both teach and inspire the players. Remember, elite athletes are accustomed to winning most competitions because they are vastly more talented.  Most people must be trained to focus on their weaknesses instead of their strengths. That alone is a teaching skill in short supply.

Given how thoroughly recycled NFL assistant/position coaches are, I believe they are often selected because a head coach knows he can work with him, not because of exceptional ability.

Athletic instincts are kind of a tricky thing to evaluate.  Some guys work hard, watch film, have physical gifts, but their split second reactions to all the crazy things that happen when you have world class athletes executing complex strategies all over the place is something that some guys can never develop.

With Josh Jones, I'm sure he could have worked harder, but he also may not have had the "quick" football mind to process things fast enough as they were happening around him.   Guys like LeRoy Butler, Eugene Robinson, they both had the knack to see situations happen on the football field and immediately make the correct reaction in milli-seconds.  I'm sure some of it is taught, but I think it's also a gift that some guys have and some don't, to be able to make the correct decision as quick or quicker than anyone else on the football field. 

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