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I don't want to take away from the stimulating "I think playing defense would make the defense better" discussion but one thing strikes me about how successful teams build. They aren't enamored by shiny stat lines and numbers.

For instance, CB speed. I look at guys like Tramon Williams and the picks like House and Heyward and they aren't speed demons. You hear adjectives like "quick", "instinctive" or "fluid". While you obviously don't want a complete lead foot in the backfield it is these type of guys you see showing up on successful teams. I think fluidity is a more attractive feature than true speed (Rouse, literally a stiff).

I would also say you see it on the other side of the ball. Guys like Jennings in particular. While I believe speed is definitely more of an asset for a WR than a DB, again you see "instinct", "physical off the jam" and "precise route running" as bigger upsides.

Yes, you can't teach speed but is the lack of overall speed make for a more sound technician and generally a better overall player? Is the lack of burner speed the equivalent of having sharpened senses to adjust for a diminished sense?

Highway 28, perfect example. The only reason he gets drafted as high as he did (outside of Sherman sucking as a GM) is speed. Guys like Carroll seem to try and coast on speed. It's more of a rarity to find a solid technical DB coupled with burner speed.

Personally, I think good front offices just know what players will stick in their system vs. being enamored with hyped stats, but those numbers must mean something to someone as it drives up a players stock even though it may not translate to production on the field.
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nobody wants a slow DB but I think your take is pretty accurate. "ball awareness" is one I think TT values a bit more than others. you find a guy with good enough speed who is fluid, ball aware and not afraid of contact and I think TT is interested. football IQ is something that can't be quantified but I think the GBP's scouts and TT are good at judging it and value it as well. if there were a test for football IQ, I don't think HWY 28 would have passed. if you understand the entire scheme and what everyone on your team is doing and how it relates to what you're supposed to do, that can make up for speed and/or present opportunities.
It is sort of amazing that guys that really didn't have great speed like Jerry Rice and Cris Carter both were tremendous players at the NFL level. Rice was regarded to run about a 4.55 as I recall and Carter was reputed to run a 4.8. Yet Rice in particular, do you ever remember someone catching him from behind as he'd beat a DB like a drum? Carter was somewhat limited by his speed as a deep threat, and yet he was still excellent at the short to intermediate routes.

A guy like Terrell Buckley ran as high as the 4.3s as I recall but I remember him really struggling with 4.8 running Cris Carter. He couldn't stay with him and when he did, he was out physicalled by Carter. There's just so much more to the game than pure speed.

I remember Robert Brooks was something like the 20th fastest wideout to come out of the '92 draft in terms of 40 times. But he was better than almost all if not all of them as he had toughness, quickness, and incredible endurance to run just as hard in the 4th quarter as he did in snap #1.
What does speed mean? If you have great football players who happen to have elite speed, it tilts the game in your favor, no doubt. Speed by itself is always unfulfilling. They have go be football players first.

But GMs and coaches will always hunt for the advantage that speed represents. Unfortunately for guys like Sherman, Al Davis, or any others that drafted 40 times, they rolled the dice and lost. But it also matters what kind of coaches are coaching, too.
Al Davis was on the right track with drafting these amazing athletes I think. What he was forgetting was the other half of that saying, "you can teach a player to [insert skill], but you can't teach speed." The other half is teaching the player to do the rest of what it requires to be a football player. He didn't have the right coaches for the players he acquired. There some exceptions like Jamarcus Russell who would have sucked no matter the coach, but guys like Darius Heyward-Bey had/have the potential to be great players if the right coaches and team leaders were in place to mold them.
Heyward Bey wasn't exactly a superstar in college. Even with decent coaching it would take years to make Heyward Bey a legit all around threat. Is that a worthy investment? My personal opinion is Heyward Bey isn't all that different than Robert Ferguson. All the gifts in the world but how long will it take for the guy to consistently catch a freakin' ball?

Point being some of these guys coasted on natural ability in college. Coaching is a huge thing for every player at the NFL level but at what point does the ability to be coached up overtake the natural ability at hand? Of course you're dealing with front office and coaching egos as well, which begs the question what qualities in a player truly weight more to a good front office?

The psychology of putting together a good team is what is intriguing. TT does take flyers on guys but not on how he built the nucleus of the team.

It's these kind of elements in team building and individual players that makes me wish the NFL had some kind of minor league system. And don't say college is that system. Goofball spread offenses against inferior talent doesn't always show were a player will emerge on the next level.
quote:
Originally posted by IL_Pack_Fan:
Shields seems like an example where speed trumped all else, but I suppose his regression last year reaffirms the case that a player needs more in the NFL.


Shields was a failed WR at Miami who went undrafted. He may actually be the poster boy against the speed argument. Yet, he has been shaped into a player that isn't relying on his speed but more ball hawking skills.

The regression may be more a testament to his ability to absorb coaching. Plus I think we all agree with the sheer brilliance of the revelation that you have to rush the passer as well to have a balanced defense.
quote:
Originally posted by YATittle:
I agree, Henry, and that's why I think the UFA RB from USC may surprise some in training camp.


Maybe the kid has something but he honestly sounds like a over privileged twit unwilling to put in the work to excel and learn. I think he's a prime example of a TT flyer addition. Maybe he learned his lesson and TT finally sees something MM can mold. Who knows.
Shields wasn't the only guy who had an off year in 2011. I don't think for that reason we should label him as a guy lacking other qualities. Lets see if he rebounds this year. Maybe he just didn't handle his success from his rookie year well.
quote:
Originally posted by IL_Pack_Fan:
Shields seems like an example where speed trumped all else, but I suppose his regression last year reaffirms the case that a player needs more in the NFL.
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:


Maybe the kid has something but he honestly sounds like a over privileged twit unwilling to put in the work to excel and learn.


Definitely my first impression of him. Since he went to USC, I would imagine he has all the prototypical measurements you'd want in an NFL running back, so who knows...maybe going undrafted was a wake up call for him, and he'll do what needs to be done to succeed at this level.

I'm pretty sure Starks and Green aren't going anywhere, and who knows, maybe Grant signs a one year deal before the season starts. I think he's gonna have an uphill battle to mkae the roster, unless he tears up training camp. Especially considering the talent stockpiled at receiver and tight end, it's gonna be real tough for him to make the final 53, IMO.
Ok- so top athletes in college find out when they get to the NFL it's not so easy. It goes for the big guys, too. Not exactly revolutionary.

When you draft an athlete, or a speed guy, or sign a guy after the draft, you're always rolling the dice that they guy has the drive to succeed. The term crap shoot has been used to describe the draft for a reason. There is an element if luck involved in the acquisition of talent. And the science of mental evaluation is always evolving to identify the intangibles. Until someone comes up with a way to identify them, luck will be involved.
quote:
Originally posted by IL_Pack_Fan:
Shields seems like an example where speed trumped all else, but I suppose his regression last year reaffirms the case that a player needs more in the NFL.


Totally agree. I don't want to say he lacks any other football skills, but his speed masked most of his deficincies. But if he can't develop mentally, and doesn't want to tackle, he'll be just a flash in the pan.

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