Stats Show Green Bay Far and Away Had the Worst Tackling Cornerbacks In The NFL

Good. I hope more articles like this are written.

I was really disappointed with Shields this year. He looked like an undrafted free agent that played WR in college...not the wunderkind he looked like in 2010.

Again, and it keeps coming back to this for me, if the pass rush was better than it was, a lot of Shields' deficiencies are probably disguised in 2011. I still believe in Woodson, Williams, and Shields. Get some guys to help Clay up front, and the defensive backfield looks instantly better. Obviously getting Collins back would be HUGE, but I'm not counting on that.

I think this article is saying large and loud that it wasn't JUST THE LACK of PASS RUSH that made the D looks so bad as a unit. With a better pass rush, maybe there are fewer passes attempted and completed and more picks but once the target has the ball, it's all on the DB's to make the tackles and our top 3 were gun shy.

At least he has a sweet tattoo on his neck

What I saw a lot of is DB's choosing to go for the INT and potential pick 6 vs making the sure tackle. I don't believe it's that suddenly these guys forgot how to tackle. But the alure of getting the pick and the momentum change (and highlights) that came with it seemed to intrigue these players a lot more then sound tackling. Time and time again you saw players like Woodson, Williams and Shields jumping routes or guessing where passes were going to end up. Now if they got the pick? Awesome. If they missed? Loooong pass plays and chains kept moving.

And the stats show that as well. GB led the NFL in INT's and if IIRC that was not close either. That gamble just didn't pay off enough IMO to justify the constant route jumping/guessing.

Here's the thing Packerboi.... They could jump routes because the offense was unstoppable.

In the playoff game when the Packers kept dropping passes and turning the ball over, obviously that strategy should go bye-bye

15-1....I'm still pissed

I think a big part of why Williams numbers sucked was his shoulder injury. His shoulder was hurt and yet he still went out and played.

Woodson's numbers are skewed because he made a lot of attempts behind the line when rushing. When you're going 100 mph trying to blow up a play I think you're going to miss some.

Shield was just being a wuss. I'm not concerned about the other two.

Not sure what was up with Shields, but we noticed he was working really hard to avoid contact last season

Even when GB had a pick 6, and all of the other defensive players were piling on in the end zone, Shields could be seen purposefully staying away from the fracas

Our guess was that he was trying to avoid injury until he gets paid, but that is pure speculation

If you have any DVR copies of games, go back and watch how hard Shields works to avoid contact. Tough to run a defense when one of your CBs is allergic to hitting/tackling

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
Here's the thing Packerboi.... They could jump routes because the offense was unstoppable the DL got pressure .

Agreed. Shields was embarrassing to watch. He made Deion look like Dick Butkus. Not sure if he was hurt or trying to stay healthy for a payday, but he was pathetic. IMHO the lockout hurt a guy like Shields last year as much as anyone on the roster. Losing that offseason with the coaches definitely seemed to stunt his development.

They played the same defense they did when they won it all. Gambling has a much higher rate of return when there's pressure on the QB.

quote:

Originally posted by michiganjoe:
They played the same defense they did when they won it all. Gambling has a much higher rate of return when there's pressure on the QB.

True, but why were the players still gambling so much once it became obvious the pass rush was never getting home? IMO, some of the DBs seemed more interested in padding their stats than playing solid team defense.

success can breed complacency, and with an entire offseason with no coach reinforcing the fundamentals I imagine a guy like Shields, in possession of SB ring and neck tattoo, thought he had arrived and just had to show up. I wonder who his agent is? This idea that he shouldn't hit anyone for fear of getting injured and missing his payday in THREE years will pretty much guarantee there is no payday in three years.

It was shocking to see the difference in defenses watching the 49ers in the playoffs. Sure, the Giants completed plenty of passes, but the play ended at the reception; there wasn't much YAC.
And a stout pass rush isn't going to 'fix' piss-poor LB/DB play, no matter how much some of you want it to.

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
Agreed. Shields was embarrassing to watch. He made Deion look like Dick Butkus. Not sure if he was hurt or trying to stay healthy for a payday, but he was pathetic. IMHO the lockout hurt a guy like Shields last year as much as anyone on the roster. Losing that offseason with the coaches definitely seemed to stunt his development.

I mostly agree JJ, but these things you mention still don't explain the seeming lack of effort on Shields' part. Once a catch was made by a wr, many many times the db could be seen running past the wr, and maybe stick an arm out in a feeble attempt to bring the guy down. That wasn't only Shields, either. What surprised me so much was how a group that had shown pretty good tackling ability the year before can all of a sudden collectively be so lacking in fundamentals and effort.

Because the whole point of the offseason, especially for these young guys, is to constantly and relentlessly work on fundamentals. Angles of pursuit, footwork, form, hip turns, etc. I agree that Shields seemed to half-ass it at times, but it also seemed like he was relying on instincts to make a big play, and those were instincts he didn't have as of yet. Regardless, he was terrible when it came to tackling, as we agree.

I can understand Williams, as he played most of the season with basically one arm. Woody had to spend what seemed like a lot more time out wide covering, which isn't really his strength anymore. Combine all of that with the loss of Collins and the lack of a pass rush and it's a recipe for failure.

quote:

Originally posted by heyward:
True, but why were the players still gambling so much once it became obvious the pass rush was never getting home?

Poor coaching? Failure of the players? Combination of the two? I don't have an easy answer but perhaps it's not that easy to suddenly change your style of play. Regardless, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made. You can be technically sound and if the QB has all day to throw it really doesn't matter much.

Fair enough points, which should mean with OTA's and an actual training camp this group should be markedly better going into next season. And the point about Collins is also a good one, no matter how many times it's been stated on this board. The steadiness and leadership he along with Woodson brought to those guys, even J Bush, took that group a long way in 2010. That is not easily replaced.

Agreed. Just the confidence the other DB's had knowing that Collins was back there to bail them out of any mistakes IMHO made them play better the previous year. Perhaps Burnett can become that guy as he gains more experience, but he was basically a rookie last year.

Does any of this fall on Joe Whitt? Seems to me I've heard nothing but good things about Whitt, but it wasn't like the DBs were overly-excelling in coverage either...

Obviously, Collins was worth a play or two a game. I can't agree that guys figure Collins was going to bail them out so to speak. I just don't see NFL defenses built around redundancies like that.

Shields lack of contact was pathetic. As alluded to here, if he doesn't change, he becomes worthless to the defense. He is not Deon.

Woodson, (and I know it might be heresy around here to say it) had a horrible season. I suspect he has pretty much lost it and is trying to compensate by gambling even more and making big impact plays that cover up his play-to-play deficiencies. His tackling was atrocious and it wasn't always when he was going 100% to catch a guy in the backfield.

Williams, people say he played with one arm most the season. I don't know if this is true or not. I didn't hear a lot about the arm when he got back.

I think one can't discount the lack of pass rush. It was not just bad, but pathetic. I think it forced Capers to play a ton more zone than the previous year. The Packers defensive backs are not good in zone, they are best in man, but you can only cover someone man-to-man for so long and if your pass rush can't even pressure the quarterback in 7-8 seconds, you coverage will be totally broken down.

With all that said, I expect TT, MM and Capers to address this all over the off-season. I expect 3, maybe 4 new starters on defense. If its the same 9-10 guys, I will be real surprised. Its apparent that even in the new NFL, you still need a defense to win a SB (or at least it helps immensely).

Ditto.

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
Here's the thing Packerboi.... They could jump routes because the offense was unstoppable.

Don't disagree with this. I'm sure that was part of it indeed. But there were also times when we were tied, down a score, or just up one score and the same thing was happening. In a blowout or up at least 2 scores? If they want to take that gamble fine.

But even in the divisional playoff game, you saw Woodson and Shields trying to jump routes vs making the sure tackle. And we never led in that game.

Certainly pass rush played a significant role as well. Even the best CB's can't cover all day. But I just think going into 2012, the fundementals (something MM spoke about over and over in his season ending PC) have to be restressed. These guys are more then capable of making quality tackles.

quote:

Originally posted by Timmy!:
It was shocking to see the difference in defenses watching the 49ers in the playoffs. Sure, the Giants completed plenty of passes, but the play ended at the reception; there wasn't much YAC.
And a stout pass rush isn't going to 'fix' piss-poor LB/DB play, no matter how much some of you want it to.

Nobody claimed pass rush would 'fix' poor DB play. I said it would mask some deficiencies. And, let's be honest, this whole defense is based on getting to the QB and putting him under duress. When that's not happening, everything else breaks down.

Why keep rehashing the bad from 2011? 15-1 Regular Season. The Giants were the better team on playoff day. I can't help but think the death of Coach Philbin's son, wake, funeral and all the related issues didn't cause GB to be off its game. Death is the #1 most stressful time in a persons life followed by divorce and moving. Give the team a pass on the sad ending to their season. They will be on top again.

In McCarthy's end of the year press conference, he stated his belief that the biggest issue was shoddy tackling. Of course a better pass rush doesn't hurt, but the tackling HAS to improve.

Charles Woodson is the least of our problems.

The guy lead the NFC in INTs, had almost 80 tackles, and 17 passes defensed. Mind, you, he's 35 years old. Plenty of corners that are 25 years old don't perform like him.

I am also willing to give Tramon Williams a pass somewhat. It was obvious to me the guy just wasn't healthy. His injury probably was much worse than reported and he should have missed time, but he's a gamer and wants to play.

People want to criticize Sam Shields but he is who he is- a pretty decent cover guy that really isn't all that interested in tackling. Again, as an undrafted free agent and backup corner what do people expect?

The lack of a pass rush and Peprah were reasons #1 and #2 why the pass defense flat out sucked and he missed his share of tackles this year also. The Hakeem Nicks long TD play where he bounced off of #26 captured the season well for that DB group. Just not good enough at this level.

The only way you get a defense that bad is if you have failures on all three levels. The blown tackle numbers are pretty strong evidence that the defensive backfield was terrible. Most concerning is that these numbers only apply to cornerbacks and doesn't even include Peprah who may have been the worst player of the bunch (him or Tramon Williams who was just brutally bad). Agreed that the pass rush was non-existent and was a major detriment...it would also have been nice to have had some inside backers that could run and actually get in a passing lane every now and then to prevent some easy throws to opposing pass-catchers.

Ted has some work to do on this side of the ball but I still think the success/failure of the 2012 defense will mainly be on B.J. Raji and Tramon Williams. If those guys play to their potential it's an immediate major upgrade to the defense...if they play like they did last year then the Packers will have some really significant issues on that side of the ball.

link to safeties info


2011 Tackling: Safeties in Coverage, Top 20

#13 Charlie Peprah GB



2011 Tackling: Safeties, Top 20

#20 Morgan Burnett GB

I'm hoping Burnett can become one of those bruising safeties. He's shown potential to be a pretty hard hitting guy. He has good acceleration and does a nice job wrapping up. I'd like to see him play SS full time, but a good safety can play either position. He's definitely someone to build around.

Some twitter activity today RE: Tramon Williams

tweets:
TW - Had another productive day of rehab.

CHTV guy - What are you rehabbing Tramon?

TW - My shoulder

fan 1 - Did you have shoulder surgery

TW - Didn't have to have any surgery

fan 2 - What % would you say you are at right now?

TW - Actually tested it out today and doc said it maybe at about 55 to 60%. long ways to go but progressing

Good info Hungry. Surprise surprise. That shoulder sure sounds like he was nowhere near 100% for the season.

That was a bit of a surprise.

And there was just this from Nick Collins
The neck, the body, and everything else is doing just find.. Ready for next month..


No word on the date in March for the Dr's review.

Cautius optimism. Would love to see Nick back.