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If only he didn't become a serial cheater...

 

According to Halberstam, in order to slow down Buffalo’s no-huddle offense in Super Bowl XXV, Belichick told his Giants players to “accidentally kick the ball” away from the officials after it had been set up for play.

 

http://grantland.com/features/...wl-seattle-seahawks/

 

Grantland article on Belichick and he is surely one of the best minds in football history. And his love of football history was part of what made him so enlightened

 

But he took it too far, too often in his quest to be the best

And now he'll wear the yoke of serial cheater for all time

 

From the article Boris posted:

Goodell indicated that Brady's destruction of evidence was a factor in upholding the suspension. 

 

"The most significant new information that emerged in connection with the appeal was evidence that on or about March 6, 2015 -- the very day that was interviewed by Mr. Wells and his investigated team -- Mr. Brady instructed his assistant to destroy the cellphone that he had been using since early 2014, a period that included that AFC Championship game and the initial weeks of the subsequent investigation," Goodell wrote in the final decision on the appeal. 

 

"During the four months that the cell phone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cell phone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady."

Gisele is relieved.

Last edited by ilcuqui
I'm no Brady fan or Patriots fan, but this seems pretty stupid. The Wells "investigation" has already been proven to be extremely flawed and all together worthless, which is what Goodell based his decision on originally. They don't actually have any evidence that Brady did what he did, just a lot of circumstantial evidence based on theories and bad science. I'm sure Brady is guilty of what they accused him of, but it does sound like a crime that is probably way more common than we think. 4 games sounds excessive for a minor crime with mediocre or no evidence. Even if Brady's lying and/or lack of cooperation are the cause of the suspension, 4 games sounds ridiculous for that. 1 game and a hefty fine, maybe 2 games if he's trying to make an example of Brady. Ray Rice got 2 games and there was much more solid evidence of him committing an actual crime.

My concern truly is less with Brady and more with Goodell's decision making. I'm concerned about when the next PR nightmare pops up, is Goodell going to dole out some ridiculous punishment again just to appease the mob? We already saw him bungle the Adrian Peterson and Greg Hardy situations with the "Commissioners Exempt List" where these players continued to be paid for nothing and the situation with that psychopath Ray McDonald. I don't understand Goodell's method and I'm really glad GB has thus far run a clean program and we haven't had to deal with this doofus.
Originally Posted by cuqui:

DonBanks: Just trying to understand this: how does NFL know Brady exchanged 10,000 texts in those four months if everything was destroyed and lost?

Because that's exactly what Brady's lawyers told them when they asked for the texts between Brady and the ball boys:

 

" There's more than 10,000 texts here and we're not about to allow you to go on a fishing expedition"

 

And the only thing destroyed was the actual phone, the records still exist at the carrier. And that's why Brady can't go to court, because Discovery will require the carrier to produce the info under subpoena.

The threat of court was just bluster and a bluff... and Roger called his bluff. 

Considering your opinion, GD, say maybe 1 game for the "act" and 1 for the "cover up" would be about right. And I don't think that's inconcievable or unfair.
It's quite possible Badell/the league would've settled for that. But if the above report is true, Brady wasn't willing to settle for that. 

I generally agree with your opinion of Badell's 'system' being wildly out of control. Everything looks right on paper, but in the end, it's like enforcing a personal foul on a kickoff. It just doesn't make a damn.

In this particular case, at least it's costing Tommy boy some $$$ for legal expenses, if nothing else.

The integrity of the game is everything

 

It impacts the sponsors, networks and Billions and Billions of revenue at stake

Otherwise the NFL is perceived as just the latest version of WWF

 

Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for some of you to grasp.

The NFL is all about image and money- this negatively impacts both

You think these owners are going to let Tommy Boy bring down their future Billions ?

 

My beef is less with how the system is set up and more about the man enforcing it. He's either a giant pussy who bows down to the owners or he gets short man syndrome and tries to show how "in charge" he is when it comes to the players. I understand it's a fine line to walk, especially for a billion dollar industry, and it's probably not the easiest job, but you would think he would make an effort to show some sense of consistency or competence. The substance abuse policy seems fairly consistent, but how he deals with violent crime seems wildly incompetent. It's not an easy thing to deal with, but he has a lot of resources at his disposal to learn the truth of the matter and do the right thing. How he determined Ray Rice only deserved 2 games or that Ray McDonald should still be allowed to play is something I'd love to hear explained? Taking the evidence/history of those men, how did he look at the Brady evidence and determine Brady's crime to be more heinous or more detrimental to the league than what those gentleman did? Is a sneaky QB worse for the league than two woman beaters?
Last edited by Grave Digger

To me, I think the answer is simple. 2 misdemeanor or 1 felony arrest/conviction(s) = lifetime ban. That'll take care of 99% of the trash in the league. 

Same applies to NCAA players; if they have the 2/1 during college, they're ineligible. 

Of course, getting the NFLPA to agree to anything close to that is a whole 'nother matter. 

 

All that leaves are situations like Brady/Patriots. I think punishment guidelines for these type of infractions should follow what the penalties are for betting on games, or similar 'integrity-related' transgressions.

Originally Posted by cuqui:

Hmmm.

@DonBanks: Just trying to understand this: how does NFL know Brady exchanged 10,000 texts in those four months if everything was destroyed and lost?

They can read the records from the phone company. Your bill every month tells you who the text is from & how many. They just can't read the actual text message, which Brady deleted/destroyed

I remember watching Barry Bonds get an intentional walk with the bases loaded in the 9th inning of an 8-6 game. I remember Buck Showalter after the game saying it wasnt smart but it was our best option. 

 

To this day I think Buck gave Barry the middle finger. I'll lose this game to a clean player if I have to but I'm not losing to a ****ing cheater. 

 

So you go on ahead and file suit Tom. Starcaps. You keep playing. In the end it won't matter. 

Originally Posted by Fedya:

       
Grave Digger:

What Brady did cuts to the integrity of the game.

Sure, what Ray Rice did is worse in the real world.  But there was no cheating at football.

       


It is cheating which does damage the integrity of the game. Maybe it's just me, but I think allowing violent criminals like Ray Rice and Ray McDonald to play in the league damages the integrity of the game more than Brady cheating. Those two potentially have the opportunity to once again make millions of dollars and continue their cycle of violence toward women. Adrian Peterson learned no lessons other than if you have enough money you can hire a really good lawyer to get you off the hook...he beat his kid and got paid 12 million to sit around.  Brady should be punished because it's obvious he's guilty, but does he deserve to be punished as much or equal to those guys? Violent offenders, guilty in criminal court or not (and the NFL has the resources to determine guilt or innocence) should be banned and Goodell and/or De Smith don't agree apparently. Those guys should be promoting a culture where that's not tolerated. If Ray Rice's 2 game suspension, which I believe Goodell would have stuck with were in not for the public pressure, was the measure of how non-substance abuse related punishments should be doled out then Brady deserves only a modest fine. Rice, McDonald, Hardy, probably Peterson, etc should have all gotten lifetime bans. Brady should have been given a 2 game suspension and a hefty fine that went to charity. Just my opinion though, I think Goodell has failed the integrity of the league in the past and is doing so again.
Last edited by Grave Digger
Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
 
... allowing violent criminals like Ray Rice and Ray McDonald to play in the league damages the integrity of the game more than Brady cheating... Violent offenders, guilty in criminal court or not (and the NFL has the resources to determine guilt or innocence) should be banned...                                                                                         ... Goodell and/or De Smith don't agree apparently. Those guys should be promoting a culture where that's not tolerated.

Good post, Digger. Just keep this in mind. Rog works for the owners. De for the players. Neither group is committed to getting that type of filth out of the game. Shame. Especially on the owners. They don't need criminals like Hardy on the the field, they will still make their billions.

Last edited by ilcuqui
And that's really the point. Before anyone talks about Brady destroying the integrity of the game with deflating footballs a little, keep in mind the what kind of people the NFL has representing their organizations. Brady is probably doing the least damage of any of the offenders when you look at the NFL as a whole. Just another reason to appreciate McCarthy and Thompson even more, they seem to put an emphasis on steering clear of these scumbags...the worst offenders they've had have all be potheads. Erik Walden had serious issues, but they moved on immediately.

The NFL is still very much a "boys-will-be-boys" entity that's owned and run by old-school white guys. They come from an age where beating a woman was not necessarily accepted in polite society, but you just looked the other way. Hence the Hardy, Rice, et al, suspensions being laughable. Brady fooled with the integrity of the game and to the suits at the top, that's something they can't/won't look away from. 

 

As long as the NFL is owned and operated by the guys it is today, women will remain second class. I'm skeptical of the hiring of Sarah T (the ref) because it comes so soon after all the bad pub on Hardy and Rice, making it seem like an appeasement. I'm more hopeful on Arians' hiring of Jen Welter because he doesn't do stuff like this unless he wants to, and the guys she's coached in the past say she was an excellent coach. Same with Becky Hammon's hiring by Greg Popovich (Hammon's team won the summer league).

 

And yes, I love that TT and MM don't keep those guys around. Beating on women doesn't really fly in GB. MM has three girls; woe be to the guy who mistreats them! 

I think it's more about Goodell keeping the rest of the owners appeased because they already know how tight he and Kraft are.  At least this gives the appearance of him dishing out punishment to all teams.  Maybe a little make-up for sweeping the video tapes under the rug?

 

Plus, he gives the NFL it's villain again.  what a great story--Brady proves he's the best ever by demolishing the old school, small market, non-billionaire owned, refusing to sell Lambeau naming rights Green Bay Packers to prove once and for all the almighty power of the company and the NEW NFL?

Things I hope come out when this trainwreck goes to court. 

 

The last time Gisele let Tom touch her vagina. He has brought shame to the Gisele castle.  

 

Damages Samsung is seeking when Tom used this case as the opportunity to trash their brand and change to an iPhone 6.

 

Another Robert Kraft speech.  

Last edited by ChilliJon

A lawsuit could highlight the NFL's inconsistencies in punishment; it would also reveal Brady's texts and open his Pandora's box of a cell phone. 

 

Does either side really want those things to happen? The NFL comes out ahead in this case since it's already been skewered for the inconsistencies. Brady doesn't want the truth to come out. If they sue, Brady's lawyers will have in place a surefire way to suppress those texts.

Originally Posted by Grave Digger:


Sure, what Ray Rice did is worse in the real world.  But there was no cheating at football.
      
It is cheating which does damage the integrity of the game. Maybe it's just me, but I think allowing violent criminals like Ray Rice and Ray McDonald to play in the league damages the integrity of the game more than Brady cheating.
 
Allowing a POS like McDonald to play is wrong, agree. But here's the difference. If fans think the game is fixed, players/coaches are cheating and the game is little more then a farce they'll stop going to games. And buying merchandise. And stop watching it on TV. And that amounts to billions lost and the end of the NFL. Having some POS player who knocks around his GF or wife won't.
 
Is that right ? No. But it's the way it works. This is all about protecting the $$$$. And it always will be.
 
 
Last edited by packerboi

How many Packer fans are going to walk away because of what Quarless did this offseason?  Probably not any.  Ultimately, it is the criminal justice system that needs to punish people (for actual crimes, like Ray Rice).  Employers run the risk of alienating their customers by keeping these guys around, but I really don't think the league itself needs to suspend guys for off field stuff.  Should they not be allowed to work at any job anywhere?

 

Having said that, I'm glad that the Packers usually chose to stay away from those guys.  It protects the brand.  Let the cowboys or Bengals deal with it.

Last edited by 18c3v

Also, it wasn't Judge Doty who ordered this, from what I read, his docket is full, so it was another judge in MN, that I believe ordered this.  Either way, MN labor laws are very lenient towards employees, not the employer, that's why the NFLPA tries to file in MN. 

 

I'm not a legal scholar, did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it's not looking good for the Golden Boy. 

I'm really surprised by the amount of people who think what Brady did is worse, as far as the NFL is concerned that is. I do think Brady deserves to be punished, but I don't think his crime tarnished the league at all. It's not like a slightly deflated ball decided the outcome of the game. It's cheating, but I would rather see a league full of guys who bend/break these kinds of rules vs. a league full of millionaire wife beaters. Playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. Greg Hardy doesn't deserve to play in the same league as guys like Aaron Rodgers and Randall Cobb.

While I don't condone violence against a wife, girl friend, domestic partner, complete stranger it has nothing to do with the game.  What Brady did, just like a player betting on a game affects the outcome of the game.   That is why and rightly so Goodell came down so hard on him. Throw in the lack of cooperation on Brady's and the Pats part in the investigation I think they are lucky they were only punished to the point they have been. 

Not hard at all to understand. 

 

However, for Brady, he doesn't seem to get the word "implicated".  If he did "nothing wrong" he should not have a thing to hide.  Of course the QB Brady could be implicated in an NFL football game - but he would deny that too - in which case his contract could be ripped up.  But he would sue over that too. 

John Jastremski and James McNally could end all this right now. But they're still suspended. Stashed away and muzzled. Smart move not to fire them. You don't cheat for years and not learn the angles. 

 

Kraft has come off looking like a boob. He demanded an apology. Then he accepted the punishment. Then for reasons I'll never understand he confessed he thought accepting punishment had a back door out clause. 

 

I hate Goodell. He's horrible. But I think he gave Kraft every possible opportunity to make a ****ty mess his team caused go away. But the video scandal that's been hanging over this team made brokering a deal impossible. That's the cost of habitual cheating.

 

The Brady camp hasn't provided a damn thing that shows he did nothing wrong. They've only fired back after the NFL said "Sorry, he's guilty. No Soup" with obligitory "Outrageous" claims. They want to to focus on the process, procedure, and precident of punishment doled out by the league that was never collectively bargained. Because punishment for taking the air out of footballs just prior to a game should have been tabled for punishment discussion in 2011. 

 

Tom Brady is a cheater. He tried to create an unfair advantage. The question isn't why is his suspension in line with domestic violence. IMO it's why his suspension isn't indefinite until he has the stones to admit what he did. 

Last edited by ChilliJon

So two Viking fans managed to get into Lambeau for the shareholder meeting Tuesday. Full Viking gear. A Packer shareholder vouched for them at the door. That fan should be banned forever but his name might rhyme with Bavre. Whatever. 

 

So the story was picked up by the Strib and run today because stories of Viking fans getting over on Lambeau is a victory story to be told. 

 

Comment in the Strib story:

 

I was in a bar near Green Bay a few years back talking to one of the locals. When I told him I was from Minneapolis, he pulled the celephane off his pack of cigarettes and set it on the bar upside down and asked me what it was. He said it was the Vikings trophy case......it never stops.

 

SKOL!!!!

 

And yes. The Vikings suck. 

 

 

Last edited by ChilliJon

And speaking of Vikings suck. 

 

I dont think nearly enough homage has been paid to October 24, 2010. 

 

If Percy keeps both feet in bounds then Brett is 3-0 against the Packers. Childress doesn't dress down Brett after the game. Minny is tied for the division lead and Green Bay has a 3 game losing streak against Miami, Washington, and Favre. 

 

But Percy didn't. Green Bay rolled off 4 impressive wins. Including a Viking beat down 3 weeks later. Childress got canned. Aaron won the SB MVP. 

 

If that game went the other way then who knows. But that bowl was so loud that night after the game. Like the e brake on "it's going to be ok" was released. You could feel and hear it. 

 

My 45 minute trip out of Lambeau that night will always be something I'll never forget. 

This is where people get confused.  In those cases the charge is for besmirching the saintly image of the NFL, not for the crime itself.  You can debate all you want about whether that's within the league's rights and what those penalties should be.  But it makes no sense to criticize the league for sanctioning players who were cheating at FOOTBALL.

Well, if that is what the charge is really for, I am sure the NFL is the last entity to want to let onto this dirty secret - and not saying I disagree (though unsure)!

 

At a real high level, I think it's plausible that the NFL punishes a Ray Rice because he did something bad - and that is some of the essence of justice.

 

If the above is 100% untrue, I would love Goodell to grab a microphone and tell the truth!

 

Just to clarify, we did not punish Ray Rice because he did something real bad except for one reason.  We only care about our image.  We did not punish him for any other reason. 

Because every NFL contract has a personal conduct standard. According to this,  "All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid 'conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League.' This requirement applies to players, coaches, other team employees, owners, game officials and all others privileged to work in the National Football League."

 

And notice it says "all persons," not just players. (It would be interesting to see how that is applied to some lowly desk jockey vs a star player.) Now, you could argue that wife beating doesn't hurt the "integrity of and public confidence" in the NFL and players shouldn't be subject to NFL discipline for that offense, but that horse left the barn a long time ago when they started handing down those suspensions. However, deflating footballs directly does bring into question the "integrity of and public confidence" in the NFL as it could directly affect the game. 

 

And that's why the big deal about a couple pounds of hot air. 

 

Even the two-game suspension, with the concomitant loss of income, was more than what Ray Rice got from the government.

But it's easier for people to get their righteous indignation on at Roger Goodell than it is to have a serious discussion about whether pre-trial diversion is worthwhile and whether the,victim should have the right to see her attacker lightly punished.
Originally Posted by Dr._Bob:

       

This is where people get confused.  In those cases the charge is for besmirching the saintly image of the NFL, not for the crime itself.  You can debate all you want about whether that's within the league's rights and what those penalties should be.  But it makes no sense to criticize the league for sanctioning players who were cheating at FOOTBALL.


       


I think Brady should have been punished, I'm not arguing that. I'm sure he cheated, it hasn't been proven, but I believe it to be true. If it comes down to it though, I will take Tom Brady over Ray Rice though and I'm sure most fans would as well. Yet one deserves a harsher punishment than the other in the eyes of the commissioner? Maybe Brady DOES deserve 4 games, but that should become the benchmark for suspensions. If circumstantial evidence and a lack of cooperation over a truly minor offense gets you 4 games, then a Ray Rice type incident deserves much more than that. I don't have faith that will be the case though.

Report: NFL’s Mike Kensil Source For Original Incorrect Deflategate Report

nesn.com

by Mike Cole on Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 1:46PM

 

The whole Deflategate controversy stems from one report, and that one report keeps coming back to the same guy.

 

The report in question, of course, is from ESPN’s Chris Mortensen. The longtime reporter tweeted in the days following last season’s AFC Championship Game that 11 of the New England Patriots’ 12 footballs were 2 pounds below the NFL’s legal PSI threshold.

 

That report has been proven to be false, but that hasn’t stopped the NFL from coming down hard on the Patriots. All the while, Mortensen’s original tweet remains and the story hasn’t been pulled. Mortensen was set to go on WEEI Radio in Boston on Friday but backed out before joining “Dennis & Callahan.”

 

Mortensen likely was going to be grilled over the report, so WEEI radio host John Dennis one-upped Mortensen by “reporting” that Mortensen’s source for the 11 of 12 report was NFL vice president of game operations Mike Kensil.

 

...

 

Kensil spent the better part of two decades with the Jets, where he worked with Bill Belichick. Kensil still was with the Jets when Belichick spurned New York in 2000 by resigning as head coach almost immediately after being hired. continue

 

 I believe Belichick to be a persistent breaker of rules.  It goes all the way back to the Giants superbowl vs the Bill for me. 

 

Belichick wanted his players to use delay tactics.  In between plays, when the umpire immediately spotted the ball, a Giants player was coached to “accidentally” kick the ball. This was designed to interrupt the flow and rhythm of the Bills attack. source

 They did it on the last drive of the game and cost the Bills enough time to get another play where they could have been closer for the final kick.  Point being Kensil knows exactly the kind of shenanigans Belichick likes to pull.  I'm glad the league finally put the foot down on his bullchit. 

Last edited by titmfatied
Originally Posted by Goalline:

 

The NFL should be embarrassed about this. Ridiculous.

Yup.

They're looking like Inspector Clouseau these days, which is hilarious on so many levels 

 

 

But there has to be a reason that an image-conscious league focused on making money would drag their cash cow through the mud. I have zero doubt that the Patriots cheat repeatedly and with impunity - but I also have little confidence that the keystone cops are up to the job of catching them.

Just like The Inspector

 

The Mighty Green Bay Packers arrive in NE for a preseason game next week; the circus should be in full swing. And the stark contrast between how the the two clubs handle their affairs will be on display for all to see.

Last edited by Satori

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