matt LaFleur appears over his head; rodgers looks checked out; a decade of wasted draft picks on defensive players who have mostly failed to produce; no receivers or tight ends; cap space devoted to unproductive players; time to blow it up?
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I could see them blowing it up this coming offseason but still a lot of football left. These last 3 weeks have been horrible but maybe they figure some things out.
Even though it gets tiring listening to Rodgers’ passive aggressive shots at teammates, I do agree with him on 1 thing. The amount of mental mistakes this team has made this year has been ridiculous. Guys just seem like they don’t have their assignments down and that is something we have yet to see in the LaFleur era so far. Blockers taking the wrong guy, receivers running the wrong route, defensive guys fooled and out of position. By far this is the worst we’ve seen since McCarthy’s last year.
Clean up the mental mistakes and maybe the team can turn things around. And also #12 needs to be way way better than he has been. His surly attitude is affecting both his own play as well as that of others.
The only teardown that needs to happen is getting Murphy out of office, getting a president in who isn't a giant egomaniac and lets his GM be the top of the football food chain instead of the stupid fucking structure we have now.
Let Gutey, or whoever is your GM, have ultimate authority on all football decisions...this co-leadership thing with Russ Balls is unlike any other NFL team.
Gutey and Balls wanted to be GM because they were already in the organization, and came up through the ranks. Packers GM job isn't that attractive to the top candidates from outside because of the structure.
If they hadn't restructured ARod's contract, this past off season, it would be the Jordan Love show, now. We may also have still had Adams, as a WR. Adams wanted to go to LV, so there's that. Many of us were hoping Love would get the promotion, last off season, just to be done with ARod's games. Since we aren't in the Love era, yet, we still have ARod, to contend with. No arguing that he is/ was a great QB, but his play, is off, this year. He overthrows his receivers, seems to not want to hand the ball off to the best RB tandem in the game and seems to play hero ball, a lot. Our WRs bear the brunt of the criticism for not catching his passes--and a lot of that is deserved, but a lot falls on ARod. Personally, I wish MLF had the guts to bench ARod when he messes up. I think MLF may be a tad bit afraid of him, to do that, however. So Love sits on the bench, while ARod points the finger at everyone else. I'll bet Love throws the ball to our young receivers more consistently and more accurately than the Old Master does, in practice. Everyone squeaks about Gute wasting ARod's and the team's future during the draft and F/A. Maybe the future we are wasting, is Love's. Bring on the haters! The same people who did not want Rodgers as our QB, when Favre was the spoiled brat on this team.
@Chongo posted:The only teardown that needs to happen is getting Murphy out of office, getting a president in who isn't a giant egomaniac and lets his GM be the top of the football food chain instead of the stupid fucking structure we have now.
Let Gutey, or whoever is your GM, have ultimate authority on all football decisions...this co-leadership thing with Russ Balls is unlike any other NFL team.
Gutey and Balls wanted to be GM because they were already in the organization, and came up through the ranks. Packers GM job isn't that attractive to the top candidates from outside because of the structure.
That’s not going to happen. If he’s an egomaniac, he’s where he wants to be.
I noticed a headline in my news feed this morning that asked the question of if the Packers should trade away Bakhtiari. I blew it off and didn't even click the link but it got me thinking. If we blow the next couple games here what about selling Bakh, Jones (since he isn't being used much anyway), and P Smith? It could give some decent draft capital and start healing the cap. Rodgers would probably hang it up after the season since it would be rebuild mode but that would also start healing the cap after the hard initial hits. Not sold on this idea yet but thinking it over a bit today. Basically, do we burn the boats or circle the wagons for a couple years?
Based on their history so far, there is just no way this FO does something like that. They're not ones to have knee jerk reactions nor quickly fix mistakes they recently made. They cast their lot when they re-signed AR to a bazillion guaranteed dollar contract. The organization as a whole is very conservative and I just can't see it doing a blow up/restart in the near future.
@Shadow posted:I noticed a headline in my news feed this morning that asked the question of if the Packers should trade away Bakhtiari. I blew it off and didn't even click the link but it got me thinking. If we blow the next couple games here what about selling Bakh, Jones (since he isn't being used much anyway), and P Smith? It could give some decent draft capital and start healing the cap. Rodgers would probably hang it up after the season since it would be rebuild mode but that would also start healing the cap after the hard initial hits. Not sold on this idea yet but thinking it over a bit today. Basically, do we burn the boats or circle the wagons for a couple years?
No.
listened to mcafee yesterday - don't know who AR is talking about specifically - but he took basically zero accountability for anything, basically putting it on everybody else...what the hell is going on here? talking about guys being accountable (true, but aren't you the C?), taking over (but aren't you the C?) talking about putting the time in? like mincamps and training camp? right? his sideways slaps, and passive aggressive attitude I bet are cracking the locker room apart. This guy is acting like a viewer of the team as a sportscaster or outside viewer, BRO you ARE the leader of this f'ing thing, YOU start the accountability, I missed throws, never mentioned once his bloody throws at the feet of guys...ugh.
@Shadow posted:I noticed a headline in my news feed this morning that asked the question of if the Packers should trade away Bakhtiari. I blew it off and didn't even click the link but it got me thinking. If we blow the next couple games here what about selling Bakh, Jones (since he isn't being used much anyway), and P Smith? It could give some decent draft capital and start healing the cap. Rodgers would probably hang it up after the season since it would be rebuild mode but that would also start healing the cap after the hard initial hits. Not sold on this idea yet but thinking it over a bit today. Basically, do we burn the boats or circle the wagons for a couple years?
Bahk doesn't have much value at the moment.
If he can go the rest of the season, he would have value in the offseason.
The players that have value, that I would consider moving are: P. Smith, Amos, Campbell, and Dillon. If Bahk plays the full season like his old self, then hell yeah you trade him.
The time to start the re-build, aka moving forward without a HOFer at QB and with uncertainty at the position, was January 23, 2022 the day after the latest playoff loss to the 49ers.
Trading away Rodgers & Adams would have resulted in a boat load of picks to start the process.
Instead, the FRONT OFFICE decided to continue with the status quo by begging ARod to sign for even more $ and thus tying up the cap for 3 more seasons.
The FRONT OFFICE then traded away the team's only viable receiving threat and used 4 top 60 picks on an ILB, reserve DT, and a project WR from a FCS school.
We now have an old roster with an even older QB and, as always, an overhyped defense featuring 7 first round picks that somehow is still not a top 10 unit.
Oh, and we have our 2020 1st and 4th round pick "QB of the future" rotting on the bench.
At least we aren't the Detroit Lions, right?
i’ve seen enough of guty’s drafts to say it’s time to clean house
@SteveLuke posted:Oh, and we have our 2020 1st and 4th round pick "QB of the future" rotting on the bench.
I think if the Packers staff thought Jordan Love was going to be a viable answer as a long-term QB, Rodgers would have been traded this offseason.
The front office's biggest nightmare would have been to trade Rodgers and have him flourish in Denver (or wherever) and then have Love look pedestrian at best (likely worse) in Green Bay. It's one thing trading away a future HOFer or even a very good winning QB if you have at least a very good one in waiting (Montana-Young; Favre-Rodgers; Brees-Rivers; Manning-Luck, even Alex Smith-Mahomes), but I don't think they believe that's the case. Love has been incredibly pedestrian even in preseason games playing against backups. He's better than Hundley/Kizer, but that's a pretty low bar.
Give TT and MM major credit for having the cajones to ship Favre off in 2008 and they deserve a lot of credit for doing that. But, by that point, I think they knew that Rodgers was at least not going to embarrass himself - especially after that Dallas game where he came in for Favre.
My guess is that they know Love isn't the long-term answer by this point and don't really know what to do next.
While MLF rejuvenated the offense by Year 2, the cornerstones of the offense were 4 guys that TT drafted - Rodgers, Adams, Bakhtiari, and A. Jones. All but Jones were drafted when TT was still near the top of his game. Other than E. Jenkins, Gutey has failed to upgrade or even maintain the offensive talent across the board.
Nothing huge is going to happen until What Me Murph is 70.
@MichiganPacker posted:I think if the Packers staff thought Jordan Love was going to be a viable answer as a long-term QB, Rodgers would have been traded this offseason.
The front office's biggest nightmare would have been to trade Rodgers and have him flourish in Denver (or wherever) and then have Love look pedestrian at best (likely worse) in Green Bay. It's one thing trading away a future HOFer or even a very good winning QB if you have at least a very good one in waiting (Montana-Young; Favre-Rodgers; Brees-Rivers; Manning-Luck, even Alex Smith-Mahomes), but I don't think they believe that's the case. Love has been incredibly pedestrian even in preseason games playing against backups. He's better than Hundley/Kizer, but that's a pretty low bar.
Or another way they could have looked at it is if they had traded a HOF QB away for a boat load of picks, in addition to what they got for 17, they would have been set up very well for a reboot. No matter how 12 or 17 performed with their new teams or how Love looked as a starter. It would have taken bigger tanks to do that than what TT did with Favre. It would also have taken buy in from the coaching staff. But they could have used Love and all those high picks (including their own picks which would probably be top 10-15/RD) as a bridge to finding their next QB. And there is a really good group of top QB prospects coming out in May. Could have been a helluva position to be in.
Too late for that. I do think the team will re-group and muddle to ~0.500 overall but the talent void on offense is too big to overcome.
I don't think LaFleur is over his head. His initial coaching staff hires were excellent. His replacement choices have been highly suspect though. And, I still don't think he's running a true version of the offense he wants, catering to Rodgers' preferences.
Aside from the calvacade of suck at the WR/TE positions, the coaches handling and decision-making on the O-line has been criminal starting from training camp. Jake Hanson is a bottom roster player and was touted as a potential starter during the preseason. Sticking with Newman so long. Not playing EJ in his natural spot at LG. The Bakh injury doesn't help, but having a continually changing starting 5 on the o-line has been a major disruptor for the offense.
@PackerHawk posted:Nothing huge is going to happen until What Me Murph is 70.
Yes. Hopefully whoever comes in realizes that they need to run the organization like Bob Harlan and not like Murphy has. Harlan had a few missteps (Mike Sherman as GM), but for the most part he was successful because he hired good people and then got out of their way.
Harlan hired Wolf, and then Wolf hired Holmgren. That was the organizational reporting chart. Having Gutey, Ball, and MLF report to Murphy creates a lot of potential issues. I think that's what we've seen play out over the last 3 years. As long as the QB plays at a first-ballot HOF level, it covers up a lot of issues. But as soon as QB play slips (or the talent at WR/TE falls below a threshold that anyone can make work - or maybe both this year), the faults become magnified.
July 2025 is a long way off.
You people (TM) do realize that anyone that is a fan of about 15 different franchises , would read this thread title and the comments and fall on the floor convulsed with laughter at what whiney spoiled tools Packer fans have become.
Like we haven't heard that before.
Some might add entitled.
Godammit if we’re not just like white people.😀
You People™ aint' fair weather Vickling fans. That bandwagon loads and loads every time the wind blows.
@Blair Kiel posted:Godammit if we’re not just like white people.😀
"Be like white."
It could be a slogan.
Give TT and MM major credit for having the cajones to ship Favre off in 2008 and they deserve a lot of credit for doing that.
Favre retired and un-retired. The Packers were going to be going with Rodgers anyway. They couldn't well keep him after he un-retired.
@Blair Kiel posted:You people (TM) do realize that anyone that is a fan of about 15 different franchises , would read this thread title and the comments and fall on the floor convulsed with laughter at what whiney spoiled tools Packer fans have become.
Especially Blair Kiel. He's the whiniest of them all if he can't get his dinner by 4PM.
@pkr_north posted:listened to mcafee yesterday - don't know who AR is talking about specifically - but he took basically zero accountability for anything, basically putting it on everybody else...what the hell is going on here? talking about guys being accountable (true, but aren't you the C?), taking over (but aren't you the C?) talking about putting the time in? like mincamps and training camp? right? his sideways slaps, and passive aggressive attitude I bet are cracking the locker room apart. This guy is acting like a viewer of the team as a sportscaster or outside viewer, BRO you ARE the leader of this f'ing thing, YOU start the accountability, I missed throws, never mentioned once his bloody throws at the feet of guys...ugh.
There once was a guy named Aaron,
Who was arrogant, just like a "Karen"
Of the receivers he's fussed
And thrown under the bus
But his own horseshit play has been glaring.
@SteveLuke posted:The time to start the re-build, aka moving forward without a HOFer at QB and with uncertainty at the position, was January 23, 2022 the day after the latest playoff loss to the 49ers.
Trading away Rodgers & Adams would have resulted in a boat load of picks to start the process.
Instead, the FRONT OFFICE decided to continue with the status quo by begging ARod to sign for even more $ and thus tying up the cap for 3 more seasons.
The FRONT OFFICE then traded away the team's only viable receiving threat and used 4 top 60 picks on an ILB, reserve DT, and a project WR from a FCS school.
We now have an old roster with an even older QB and, as always, an overhyped defense featuring 7 first round picks that somehow is still not a top 10 unit.
Oh, and we have our 2020 1st and 4th round pick "QB of the future" rotting on the bench.
At least we aren't the Detroit Lions, right?
You repeat the same miserable shit on every post. Every. Damn. Post.
hindsight is 20/20. time to move forward. i say we need a new president and gm.
@Fedya posted:Give TT and MM major credit for having the cajones to ship Favre off in 2008 and they deserve a lot of credit for doing that.
Favre retired and un-retired. The Packers were going to be going with Rodgers anyway. They couldn't well keep him after he un-retired.
I would bet that if Murphy was the Packers President then they would have welcomed Favre back with open arms.
MichiganPacker, actually Murphy was the Packers President then, presided over the whole Favre fiasco. https://www.packers.com/team/f...e-roster/mark-murphy
Well, not really. Ted Thompson still had all the power. Murphy was just a figurehead at that time. All he did was represent the franchise at league owners meetings. What Ted wanted Ted got.
@sschumer - Packer Fan HoF'r posted:MichiganPacker, actually Murphy was the Packers President then, presided over the whole Favre fiasco. https://www.packers.com/team/f...e-roster/mark-murphy
Can't believe I forgot that. Good catch.
That was the whole pathetic we will pay you 5 million to stay retired stuff.
Exactly right
@MichiganPacker posted:Can't believe I forgot that. Good catch.
That was the whole pathetic we will pay you 5 million to stay retired stuff.
Wasn’t it 20 million? That coulda built a really nice volleyball facility at his daughter’s school.
@bdplant posted:Wasn’t it 20 million? That coulda built a really nice volleyball facility at his daughter’s school.
Way too legal
