Tolzien

Tolzien is like the the Randy Wright, Lynn Dickey, David Whitehurst of the 1980's.  Always hoping that they would turn out to be good, when you knew in your gut they were at best average.  (And, yeah, I know that Dickey threw for a ton of yards--but he was as likely to throw a pick and end a game on a pick as throw a TD).

 

Maybe with an off season in the system he can be average or a little better than average.  I don't care how many yards he threw for--he threw 3 picks, two of which were brutally bad.

I still think he can clean that part of his game up. 

Michael Rodney ‏@PackerUpdate <small class="time">3</small>

One correction - Tolzien has thrown 5 INTs in past 7+ quarters. That's 1 more than 12 had thrown in the first 7+ games.

The comparisons to Wright and Whitehurst don't make sense. They were awful starters, but they would've been OK backups. There's no reason to believe that Tolzien can't be an OK backup. He throws a good ball. He just shouldn't be starting games this season. He should still be on the practice squad getting ready to challenge for the No. 2 job next summer.

My point is that thinking we can win with Tolzien  is the same mindset that thought we could win with Whitehurst and Wright.

Tolzien has played in only two NFL games.  Give the guy a chance.  His mistakes cost the Packers tonight, but I do not think he was the only reason they lost.

I think he is an average back up.

 

Much more than I ever expected out of Scott, and with a preseason I think he could be even more serviceable. 

I think they could win some games with Tolzien in the future, provided of course, the defense is improved.

He has to fix his release and his accuracy.  Both are horrendous right now.  I hope they let Flynn compete for the start this week.  I don't think Tolz is fixing either issue in a week's time.  Flynn has a pile more experience throwing in this offense.  I'd go all in on his arm before having Tolzien go out there again next week.  

 

I think Flynn is good enough in this offense to open up the running game for Lacy.    

24 of 34 looks really good... but the pick-6 is on him. And that is a mental mistake (as was the last one, late down the middle) and the mental part of a QB can be corrected.

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My point is that thinking we can win with Tolzien  is the same mindset that thought we could win with Whitehurst and Wright.

Would this be MM's "polluted mindset"?

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Normally a play like that is just knocked down but he was able to hang on to it.   That really hurt the Pack.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? 

McCarthy put the team in a position to win it.  Pieere-paul's INT was just an incredible defensive play.  Tolzien learned a lot as would be expected.

 

Considering the fact that we put up with 15 years of very much the same...I'm willing to cut this kid some slack.

+1

It is unfair and unreasonable to expect much from Tolzien. Mental mistakes is what I would expect from  any QB taking over the starting QB position of a NFL team the way he did.

Take anything good he does this year as a bonus.

“If something went wrong at the backup quarterback position, it’s my fault,” Thompson said. “It’s not somebody else’s fault. It’s not even one of those quarterbacks’ fault. I just didn’t get it worked out right.”

 

Tolzien shows hints of being competent, especially on his longer passes.  That said, I wonder if TT addresses QB in the draft this next year.

I'm curious to see what happens when AR comes back.  I doubt TT carries three QB's.  Who gets the boot, Flynn or Tozien?

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Tolzien shows hints of being competent, especially on his longer passes.  That said, I wonder if TT addresses QB in the draft this next year.

Get in line behind all the other positions of need. 

Yup, truly a BPA year.  There is not one position that cannot be upgraded other than the starting QB that is.

Did people really expect a whole lot more out of Tolzien?  He never saw the Packer playbook until 2 months ago, probably watched the scout team most of the year, and never practiced with the #1 unit until this week.

 

I saw a back up QB.  Until the 4th quarter, he kept them in the game.  Blew up in the 4th quarter, but coming from behind to win might not be in his wheelhouse yet (or ever...). 

 

Pakrz raised a good question, who sticks around when AR gets back?  They might have to keep all three just in case, but Flynn would probably be the safest release right now (don't think there was a lot of competition to bring him back in the first place). 

Agree on Tolzien.  I think his future as a backup is pretty good.  He just needs time in the system.  He has an obvious NFL arm and I'm sure an off season under MM would do him wonders.  

Tolzien, right now, is a turnover machine.  1 TD and 5 INTs.  Relying on putting up good numbers doesn't win games (Chad Pennington was very accurate, but I doubt anyone would want him as a starter).  Moving down the field, putting the fear of God into the defense with your arm and scoring is what makes a QB dangerous.  Right now, he is doing the first and failing miserably at number two and three.  The D is stacking the box (reason we have no running game), because Tolzien isn't making DBs shiver.  They give up yards, knowing he will throw a pick or fail to get the first down.  This is the sign of a marginal backup.  Potential for a solid backup, but we don't need potential right now -- that is what the Practice Squad and Training Camp are for.  Too late for Flynn to come and save the day (he is nowhere in game shape physically or mentally).  The backup QB situation was botched epically.  Take your lumps and hope AR12 comes back quickly.

I also really have my doubts about Flynn right now, not from a head point, but an arm one.  He's been let go by two teams that could have used a guy like him just as much as the Pack does. 

 

 

The Giants made two pretty impressive athletic plays on two of the picks. Learning experiences  all, but the kind of play that doesn't happen often. They weren't related to a poor read, bad mechanics, or bad decision making.

He just needs to win this weekend against Minny. Stay a game back, and then Rodgers returns. I am pretty sure they have circled Thanksgiving as the game for his return. And as the article on Packers.com says, the 3division games are the most important. That's your window.

Need to let Tolzien and Flynn split reps with the starters this week in practice.  Tough to win with all the Tolzien interceptions.  Hopefully, Tolzien or Flynn can do better next game.  If Tolzien starts again then he needs to be on a very short leash.

 

We're accustomed to seeing a QB who doesn't make rookie mistakes. Rodgers has been in the league since 2005, he has seen the coverages, he knows what JPP and Julius Peppers are capable of, etc. Tolzien looked like a rookie QB out there because it was his first start in the NFL...ever. The Giants took advantage of essentially a rookie QB.

 

I saw 2 things that I really liked from Tolzien: his deep ball accuracy and his attitude. He threw some beautiful passes. That kind of a deep ball threat will help keep teams honest in the short passing game and the running game. You can't say enough about his attitude. First of all he looked like he gave a crap, he was pissed at himself. He didn't get down though. He came right back and was business as usual. I like him, I think he's going to make a great back up going forward. He will get the benefit of QB school in the offseason and will solve our backup QB problems. 

Agree. Hey, he looked better than Rodgers did at the same point in his career.

Gravedigger is on point today, very good posts on the last draft crop and spot on with Tolzien.  

Tolzien throws a pick (throwing late down the middle) in his first NFL start. Favre did that in his 309th (including playoffs) NFL start.

I agree

The turnovers were frustrating, but there's no reason to believe that Flynn would be a better option and absolutely no indication MM feels a change is warranted. Tolzien throws a (surprisingly) good deep ball and appears to have the proper mental makeup for the job. 

Some of you saw the game quite differently from the way I saw it. I thought Tolzien was accurate and I thought Tolzien threw deep very well. Were he is lacking is the ability to read the defense correctly to avoid fundamental errors. On the first pick he didn't even see the LB and on the last one he forced it late over the middle.

Two raps against him. As one of the announcers said, he's horrible on the play action fake. Doesn't sell it. go watch the game, the LBs weren't biting. Secondly on the JPP INT he was staring the receiver down. Something AR never does.

 

And good God, get Sherrod in there for Newhouse. He's an embarrassment. I'd just as soon cut him, don't care how many he started last year, he's lost out there.

This!  ...and his mistakes were costly, but the kid just needs more time.  I believe he will prove himself to be a good back up. 

I would hope TT carries three QBs.

Esox, I am really excited about his future as our back up.