Fair point. I struggled with Marino at 5 too. I put him there purely based on the eye test. He might be the purest passing QB I ever watched. Jim Kelly is up there as well. I get your point though and I'm sure I could be talked out of Marino. Like I said, it's an opinion. I'm also high on guys like Bert Jones, Ken Anderson, and Dan Fouts. So WTF do I know.
It's obviously subjective and damn near impossible to have a consensus top 5 at the position. I'd have Manning in there based on statistical production coupled with how cerebral of a player he is. I've never seen anybody walk up the line of scrimmage and read a defense like he does. Some people believe championships is the key ingredient, yet you never see Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman mentioned in the top 5. What about Brent? He has the stats, MVP's, a championship, longevity, etc. He's a douche so nobody gives him a mention.
But, that Steeler defense.
Brent is an interesting case. When he was playing he was constantly mentioned as one of the best ever. I think that's a reflection of him having the ability to erase a lot of the crap he pulled in big spots by maybe winning another SB. He ended up doing the complete opposite with the twilight of his career and now he's never mentioned as one of the best ever. I think that's where Manning is headed. If he plays out his career and his 1 SB is all he has I don't think history will be kind to him.
Youre point about Manning walking to the line is where I think we agree to disagree. You see a cerebral QB. I see a rehearsed QB that almost looks staged. If the timing he desperately prepares for breaks down the slightest bit he seems to crumble, the body language goes south and he almost always isn't able to win with plan B.
All objective stuff and you're spot on about a consensus. Good discussion though.
ChilliJoi vs Pakrzboi....always good discussion when these jeeniouses go toe to toe.
Only thing missing is a Bobby Bushea McClellin sighting.
Fair and balanced.
Im the guy that wanted Ted to throw some salad at Michael Huff.
I know safeties!!!
Originally Posted by ChilliJon:
Who's you're top 5?
Off the top of my head...Montana, Unitas, Starr, Manning, Brady.
Five more years of performances like the last five, and one of these guys may have to get bumped for 12
EDIT Just realized I don't have Marino in there. I guess coming up with a definitive top 5 is harder than I thought.
I have Starr ahead of Unitas. I can't go Brady because Vinatieri kicked a 45 yarder in 6" of snow in 30mph winds to get Brady to his first SB then drilled a 48 yarder to beat the Rams. Think he did the same against Carolina as time expired. I also can't get past Mark Sanchez outplaying him in Foxborough in the playoffs when NE was a double digit favorite.
I cant put a QB top 5 with things like that on the resume. You have to be a special kind of special to be top 5. You can't poke holes in Montana, Starr, and Unitas. After that opinion takes over.
Eddie Van Halen
Joe Satriani
David Gilmore
BB King
Hendrix
I struggled to leave Chuck Berry off this list (over Satch)
I'm a huge Gilmore fan. Genius. You missed Knopfler. Stevie Ray is worthy.
Are we still discussing PI?!?!!
I hate "Sultan's of Swing" enough to leave Mark off the list (everything else is genius, but I hate that song).
Similarly, "Kashmir" is why Page isn't listed.
SRV could be top ten, but he never won a championship
Boris, EKB went guitar on me and is obviously dodging the question if he's ever covered anyone without hand checking.
Did I start it by going top 5 QB's? Maybe. I wish I knew. That's not really for me to answer. Can I set things straight by going back to PI and stop responding like Favre? I know I'm gonna try.
Would Bart Starr be on top 5 lists outside of a Packer fan message board?
Otto Graham played in something like 9 straight championships.
| 1 | Sun | December 22, 1946 | W | Cleveland Browns | New York Yankees | 14 | 9 | boxscore | |
| 2 | Sun | December 14, 1947 | W | Cleveland Browns | @ | New York Yankees | 14 | 3 | boxscore |
| 3 | Sun | December 19, 1948 | W | Cleveland Browns | Buffalo Bills | 49 | 7 | boxscore | |
| 4 | Sun | December 4, 1949 | W | Cleveland Browns | Buffalo Bills | 31 | 21 | boxscore | |
| 5 | Sun | December 11, 1949 | W | Cleveland Browns | San Francisco 49ers | 21 | 7 | boxscore | |
| 6 | Sun | December 17, 1950 | W | Cleveland Browns | New York Giants | 8 | 3 | boxscore | |
| 7 | Sun | December 24, 1950 | W | Cleveland Browns | Los Angeles Rams | 30 | 28 | boxscore | |
| 8 | Sun | December 23, 1951 | L | Cleveland Browns | @ | Los Angeles Rams | 17 | 24 | boxscore |
| 9 | Sun | December 28, 1952 | L | Cleveland Browns | Detroit Lions | 7 | 17 | boxscore | |
| 10 | Sun | December 27, 1953 | L | Cleveland Browns | @ | Detroit Lions | 16 | 17 | boxscore |
| 11 | Sun | December 26, 1954 | W | Cleveland Browns | Detroit Lions | 56 | 10 | boxscore | |
| 12 | Mon | December 26, 1955 | W | Cleveland Browns | @ | Los Angeles Rams | 38 | 14 | boxscore |
all playoff games started at QB by Otto Graham (9-3)
Just cannot see leaving a winner like that out.
Dude was a WINNER!!!
Originally Posted by Pakrz:
Would Bart Starr be on top 5 lists outside of a Packer fan message board?
I asked that question myself when I put him on my list
I don't think Starr would be top 15 outside of GB. Maybe it's why Kramer isn't in the hall. Those teams were borderline too good. He's one of the 5 best though.
If Starr wasn't as good as he was Don Meredith might be part of this discussion and Green Bay might be playing for the Landry Trophy this year.
Perhaps it's necessary to rank qualities of a great QB before ranking the QBs themselves. In what order would people rank number of championships, athletic ability, mental mastery of the game, accuracy, mental/physical toughness, avoidance of errors, leadership, etc? Figure that out and the rest becomes easier.
pretty sure you did not make anything easier with that suggestion.
I think we should rank the QB's from best to worst based on alphabetic order, Last Name/First Name.
See, that was easy.
1) Aikman/Troy
2) Anderson/Ken
3) Avelini/Bob
That makes little sense unless you rank Packers QBs that way, only use first names not their last Names. Case in point.
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Annie Herber
3. Bart Starr
See how well it works? Let's continue.
4. Blair Keil
5. Brett Favre
The only anomally? Scott Hunter should be top 5, and somehow a Vikings' QB crept into the top 5, but hey, no system is perfect.
Annie Herber? 
He went by "Annie" on Monday and Tuesday nights. Football players weren't paid much back then. The Adam's apple almost always gave him away.
Originally Posted by Dr._Bob:
Perhaps it's necessary to rank qualities of a great QB before ranking the QBs themselves. In what order would people rank number of championships, athletic ability, mental mastery of the game, accuracy, mental/physical toughness, avoidance of errors, leadership, etc? Figure that out and the rest becomes easier.
Should the quality of the team around him enter into it?
It probably all depends on the pass interference rules that were in place when the QB played.
Originally Posted by Pikes Peak:
Originally Posted by Dr._Bob:
Perhaps it's necessary to rank qualities of a great QB before ranking the QBs themselves. In what order would people rank number of championships, athletic ability, mental mastery of the game, accuracy, mental/physical toughness, avoidance of errors, leadership, etc? Figure that out and the rest becomes easier.
Should the quality of the team around him enter into it?
Of the attributes listed above, number of championships is most dependent on the quality of the team around the QB. One's ranking of Marino will depend on where one ranks the number of championships when rating a QB.
Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:
pretty sure you did not make anything easier with that suggestion.
Perhaps, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to rank QBs unless one has thought about the relative importance of different attributes.
Originally Posted by Fedya:
Annie Herber?
Stupid autocorrect.
Originally Posted by PackLandVA:
He went by "Annie" on Monday and Tuesday nights. Football players weren't paid much back then. The Adam's apple almost always gave him away.
This is why I prefer to use the spell-check in my head.quote:Stupid autocorrect.
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