Watching the Niners mess close up

Kyle Shanahan .443 winning percentage

Matt Nagy .564 winning percentage

Perception a bit different than the reality.

I admit I’m a bit concerned that both McVay and Shanny started strong, lost a Super Bowl and fell down the mountain. Jury still out on LaFleur, but he’s cut from same cloth.
QB is key foundation in NFL so real test will be Packers post-12. Right now I’m just enjoying the ride.

The McVay issue without a doubt was QB. He got a Super Bowl season out of Goff which was amazing knowing what he actually is as a QB. Let's see what he does with Stafford.

Shanahan has the same problem. Got to a Super Bowl despite his QB and nearly won it. If Lance isn't an elite QB they are going to be in trouble.

LaFluer has Rodgers. At least for this year. If they part ways with Rodgers you might see the same problems crop up in GB.

Good thing Rodgers isn't going anywhere then.

Shanahan and McVay also peaked (so far) when they and their offenses were relatively new.  Defenses are better prepared for them now.  And they've both had enough success now where their salary caps aren't what they used to be (signing and resigning their top players).  LAR has $40M in dead money.  They seem to have all the pieces but health will play a role in January.

@GreenBayLA posted:

I admit I’m a bit concerned that both McVay and Shanny started strong, lost a Super Bowl and fell down the mountain. Jury still out on LaFleur, but he’s cut from same cloth.
QB is key foundation in NFL so real test will be Packers post-12. Right now I’m just enjoying the ride.

Mcvay has had sustained success, but the whole system seems to rely on having a QB make adjustments at the line. Early on in Goff's career this was based on waiting until the defense declared itself so that McVay could call a play i response. Belichick exposed it in the Super Bowl by not lining his defense until after the helmet audio went off (15 seconds before the snap) and the Rams offense was inept. Mcvay decided he needed a QB that could make those adjustments to the make the offense work, so he traded away a huge package to get Stafford.

Shanahan doesn't really have a QB, so other than the one good year, he's not been that successful. Other than that one Super Bowl year, his record as a head coach is 18-36.

We've obviously never seen MLF's offense without Rodgers running it. As you say, the jury is out.

Another reason to let Benkert set for a few more years before taking over when Rodgers retires.

@GreenBayLA posted:

I admit I’m a bit concerned that both McVay and Shanny started strong, lost a Super Bowl and fell down the mountain. Jury still out on LaFleur, but he’s cut from same cloth.
QB is key foundation in NFL so real test will be Packers post-12. Right now I’m just enjoying the ride.

LaFleur isn't going to lose a SB.

I've heard Shanahan's issue is that he's still acting like an offensive coordinator and not a head coach.  I don't know specifics but seems like he spends his time working on plays and the X's and O's and not managing the team.  I get that most coaches will gravitate toward one side of the ball but there are a lot more duties for a head coach than just the offense or defense.  And I think you can still call plays as a head coach as long as you're doing everything else you're supposed to do during the week and the game.  Maybe Shanahan isn't doing those other duties.  It's a similar issue that Denver is having with Fangio, who is more of a DC than a head coach. 

I also think the GM has failed too (whether it's Shanahan or Lynch(.  The Lance pick just didn't make sense.  While I think Lance would be a great QB in the Shanahan offense, it's odd to trade so many assets away for a developmental QB.  It worked with Mahomes but that was unusual. 

@CUPackFan posted:

I also think the GM has failed too (whether it's Shanahan or Lynch(.  The Lance pick just didn't make sense.  While I think Lance would be a great QB in the Shanahan offense, it's odd to trade so many assets away for a developmental QB.  It worked with Mahomes but that was unusual.

Virtually every QB that played for Andy Reid at any point in their career had the best years of their careers with him. Donavan McNabb, Alex Smith, and Michael Vick all had sustained success under Reid. Mahomes is the best in a long line of guys Reid has had success with.

Over two decades later, it still bothers me that Wolf just didn't hire Reid after Holmgren left. The problem was that he'd have had to pass over Sherman Lewis to do it (technically Reid reported to Lewis under Holmgren) and he felt he couldn't do it, so he hired Rhodes.

Favre under Reid in his prime would have probably been in a few more Super Bowls.

That’s the issue giving up as much as SF did for Trey Lance.  If they get it wrong, it’s going to hose that team for several years down the road.  

@Fedya posted:

LaFleur isn't going to lose a SB.

Awesome! Is he going to win one?

He's gonna have the first tie. Trophies for all!!

In yesterday's Packers game Fox announcer said Heinicke was told not to worry about making mistakes and just play his game. Well, he was improved but definitely made mistakes. Word on Shanny is he doesn't trust Jimmy G, I think  as result he plays tight trying to "get it right" vs letting it fly.

So much goes into playing in a SB, you don’t get the same from every team/player every year. The Chiefs are experiencing this now. It takes a fanatical amount of focus to sustain that level and keep winning, and it starts at the QB/coach relationship, but continues through the rest of the roster.

Most SB rosters have a lot of young dudes proving themselves and vets trying to go for one last chance. Both are relatively cheap in cap space, and both shift their focus after they win. Youngins want to get paid, veterans ride off into the sunset. The drive to win does not stay, so the teams rarely can sustain it. Dialing that in just right to win it all is hard to do- and that’s why they don’t. The list is long of teams that fell after getting to the SB. Only Bellichik/Brady pulled off a longer sustained success, and that’s probably why Bellichik was quick to dump guys. But it took a while to dial it back in- the Patriots took a decade to win another SB after winning 3 of 4.

Trey Lance is intriguing but he looked very raw in preseason.  He made a great pass here and there but had plenty of inaccurate throws.  His potential is sky high, but that inaccuracy is something he’ll have to fix and some guys never do.

He may have the best pure physical skills of any QB drafted in the past 2 years, but as we all know, there’s a lot more to being a great QB than raw physical talent.  He does seem to have the right temperament for a QB and is mature beyond his years so he has that in his favor.

Jimmy G or Lance is irrelevant. Shanny built an offense fully predicated on Kittle. Mostly built on his ability to combo motion block with Juszchyk. If you take Kittle away that offense only goes if Deebo Samuel beats double coverage.

It's why Aiyuk is in Shanny's doghouse.

@Tschmack posted:

That’s the issue giving up as much as SF did for Trey Lance.  If they get it wrong, it’s going to hose that team for several years down the road.  

They did it because they (Shanny/Luynch) know they're going to get fired anyway if it doesn't work out.

@ChilliJon posted:

It's why Aiyuk is in Shanny's doghouse.

Aiyuk can feel free to come to Green Bay any time he likes

Lazard is better a better WR today than Aiyuk because his QB taught him how the position works.
Lazard and Sullivan were huge yesterday.