We are witnessing true greatness.

Well said. Kudos!

It’s sometimes hard to truly appreciate just how great something or someone is until it’s over, then all you can do is look back wistfully, as you remember how amazing it was to be able to experience that thing, or person, whatever the case may be. I don’t take any of 12’s amazing plays for granted. It really is a gift for Packers (and all true football) fans that we have gotten to see the very best there ever was (and still is). Aaron Rodgers is the Da Vinci or Mozart of the American game of football.

John Facenda should do the voice-over for your post.

Aww damn....I thought this thread was going to be about MVS.

MVS = MVP

A bit more context. I remember well the hoopla surrounding Bert like most of us do. Much of it was Madden style smoke up the ass, but just as much was watching the guy establish new norms for the league as a whole. 1995-1997, Favre put up an astounding 110 TD passes compared to a "paltry" 40 INTs. Nearly a 3/1 ratio which at the time was stellar. Bert won the MVP each of those 3 seasons, sharing the last one with Barry Sanders.

The prospect of AR and a TD/INT ratio of 4/1 for his CAREER is off the charts incredible. Maintaining such numbers at 37 years old only further shows Rodgers consistency of high level play, and it's extremely rarified air this guy shares. It was great to witness #4, but having watched Favre has only made this guy more special and enjoyable.

@artis posted:

A bit more context. I remember well the hoopla surrounding Bert like most of us do. Much of it was Madden style smoke up the ass, but just as much was watching the guy establish new norms for the league as a whole. 1995-1997, Favre put up an astounding 110 TD passes compared to a "paltry" 40 INTs. Nearly a 3/1 ratio which at the time was stellar. Bert won the MVP each of those 3 seasons, sharing the last one with Barry Sanders.

The prospect of AR and a TD/INT ratio of 4/1 for his CAREER is off the charts incredible. Maintaining such numbers at 37 years old only further shows Rodgers consistency of high level play, and it's extremely rarified air this guy shares. It was great to witness #4, but having watched Favre has only made this guy more special and enjoyable.

And we have Jordan Love waiting in the wings.

That's what gets me up in the morning.

All bitching aside, let's assume smarter people than us saw/see something in Love...how valuable will it ultimately be for him to have sat behind Rodgers learning and absorbing?

Maybe we'll have a top 10 QB in 2025 if that is the case.

Call me Mr. Seashells and Sunshine

@ilcuqui posted:

Well said. Kudos! CREDOS!

FTFY

He’s going to win MVP in the season that the Packers attempted to draft his replacement.   What a legend.

@Blair Kiel posted:

All bitching aside, let's assume smarter people than us saw/see something in Love...how valuable will it ultimately be for him to have sat behind Rodgers learning and absorbing?

Maybe we'll have a top 10 QB in 2025 if that is the case.

Call me Mr. Seashells and Sunshine

That may very well be. Four years in the future, the wisdom of the draft picks that we had in 2020 may be revealed. Having a great quarterback, and a great running back to balance the offense, certainly can make a team dangerous. I hope that Gutey is proven to be a genius down the road. I hope that he’s proven a genius after Rodgers has retired with two or three Super Bowl rings in his safe. Because, if Aaron retires with only the one ring, it’s going to reflect rather poorly in the front office and organization.

I’ve said it before. The quarterback position in the NFL, bar none, is the hardest to find a truly transformative talent. Look at the Bears and Vikings. They’ve been looking for a most of my life. The Browns haven’t had a bonafide star since...Brian Sipe? Or, maybe Bernie Kosar was close. I don’t remember his play too well, only that John Elway always beat him.

For the Packers to have had two top tier, Hall of Fame quarterbacks with five (possibly six) MVPs between them, and only win two Super Bowls-one, each, in 26 years-that has to be looked at as a massive failing. Green Bay’s defense seems to be the same bend don’t break, hope for the best unit, every year, despite a ridiculous amount of draft capitol and free agency money spent (Amos, the Smith brothers).

Aaron’s historical place is secure, no matter what he does. Anybody that understands the game, and has an appropriate command of the game’s history, can clearly see his greatness. He’s second or third in playoff career passer rating. Brady’s 15th. Yet 6 rings=GOAT in the eyes of the dumbed down masses, even though many of those rings came about because the rest of the team lifted him up. Brady got his first ring doing absolutely nothing in the playoffs, and they should have been out of the playoffs, losing to the Raiders. We all know how the league bailed them out.

The Packers won Super Bowls with Favre and Rodgers because they had HOF QBs and two of the greatest free agent signings in history in Reggie and Woodson to anchor the defense.

Do any of you guys have a link to the years comparisons of Favre/Rodgers span compared to the rest of the NFCN ?

Remember when Majik was the next franchise guy? This level of qb play for 28 years is unheard of. Part astute roster moves, part good fortune, part luck. When it ends, people will be ecstatic and vindictive and giddy to rub it in the faces of Packer fans. And that will make it all the sweeter...

@Boris posted:

Aww damn....I thought this thread was going to be about MVS.

MVS = MVP

I thought it was going to be about Fedya. 

@artis posted:

Remember when Majik was the next franchise guy? This level of qb play for 28 years is unheard of. Part astute roster moves, part good fortune, part luck. When it ends, people will be ecstatic and vindictive and giddy to rub it in the faces of Packer fans. And that will make it all the sweeter...

Oh man do I remember that year well.  1989 was so freaking exciting because not only were the Packers winning (something as a fan I hadn't really experienced to much) but it looked like we finally had our QB.  Dickey was pretty good and i liked him but Majik seemed like the guy we would have for 15 years.

I totally agree that sometimes it is a perfect storm of great moves and just dumb luck.  I think we got very lucky with Rodgers with everyone passing on him and falling down to us.  Every week when I watch the Packers play I just sit back and go damn that guy is great just absolutely great.

@The Heckler posted:

Oh man do I remember that year well.  1989 was so freaking exciting because not only were the Packers winning (something as a fan I hadn't really experienced to much) but it looked like we finally had our QB.  Dickey was pretty good and i liked him but Majik seemed like the guy we would have for 15 years.

I totally agree that sometimes it is a perfect storm of great moves and just dumb luck.  I think we got very lucky with Rodgers with everyone passing on him and falling down to us.  Every week when I watch the Packers play I just sit back and go damn that guy is great just absolutely great.

And we felt the same about #4. I used to tell my stepson how we need to appreciate watching this guy because he won't be around forever. Rodgers has exceeded that for this fan. It's cool to listen to AR talk about what he learned by watching Bert, and then see it in action, minus all the bonehead plays and int's. For all the headaches and cardiac arrests this team regularly dispenses, it's been a remarkable run that none of us could have foreseen nearly 30 years ago.

Does anyone have the stats that show the years of two QB's (Favre/Rodgers) compared to the number of QB's the rest of the NFCN went through?

@bvan posted:

Does anyone have the stats that show the years of two QB's (Favre/Rodgers) compared to the number of QB's the rest of the NFCN went through?

Probably, but you'll need several pages to list them all.

Super Bowl wins will always be a significant component for many in what constitutes greatness at the position. He's easily the most talented player at the position I've seen (Mahomes is right up there as well) and I suspect most of the Brady is #1 crowd would agree that in terms of just talent it's not that close a call.

It seems as Brady fades to retirement people are beginning to forget how good he once was.  He was never mobile but he was the most clutch QB I have ever seen.  AR surely more talented overall but Brady was money pretty much any time he needed to be and with the lack of talent he had around him on offense, that was often.   I'm surprised he never got the nickname "Dr." for how surgical he could be.  All the benefits of playing for BB and having a real D helped him get the wins and rings but he brought a ton to the table.  Any lesser QB, even with all that help, would not have 6 rings.  Not saying that's the only measure but it should mean a lot.  That's all that needs to be said about Brady.

Incoming!

@DH13 posted:

It seems as Brady fades to retirement people are beginning to forget how good he once was.  He was never mobile but he was the most clutch QB I have ever seen.  AR surely more talented overall but Brady was money pretty much any time he needed to be and with the lack of talent he had around him on offense, that was often.   I'm surprised he never got the nickname "Dr." for how surgical he could be.  All the benefits of playing for BB and having a real D helped him get the wins and rings but he brought a ton to the table.  Any lesser QB, even with all that help, would not have 6 rings.  Not saying that's the only measure but it should mean a lot.  That's all that needs to be said about Brady.

Brady has been underrated for most of his career. This goes back to college when he was forced to platoon with Drew Henson because Henson had the stronger arm and was more athletic.

As good as Brady has been, the best way to think about comparing him with other QBs is what would have happened if these other QBs were put in the positions he was in New England. Would NE have fewer titles had they had Rodgers, Brees, or P. Manning instead of Brady? I would say no, but the list of guys who would have done as well as Brady is very short. On the other hand, if you replaced Rodgers with Brady on the Packers since 2008 would the Packers have done as well? I would say no.

The other consideration of Brady is how much his willingness to take less money over the years has allowed the Patriots to get over the top in some years. It's admirable that he did this, but the fact his wife is worth 400 million dollars makes it an easier decision for him. That extra 5-10 million in some years allowed the Patriots to sign a few more stop-gap veterans every year. Having the money to sign a decent ILB would have really helped Rodgers the last couple of years or to be able to sign a good, veteran corner would have been nice in 2016 when the got to the NFC title game with Randall and Rollins as key guys in the backfield.

Rodgers is the best QB I've ever seen play.

It's unfortunate that many of the teams he's been on were not complete.

Since the Tampa Bay game, when Aaron Rodgers was picked off twice while targeting Davante Adams, the two have connected on 74 percent for their targets for an average 111.4 yards and 12 touchdowns over the last eight games. On... https://t.co/g4e70AP0Vo pic.twitter.com/IW8bU3If4p

— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) December 14, 2020

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

The other consideration of Brady is how much his willingness to take less money over the years has allowed the Patriots to get over the top in some years. It's admirable that he did this, but the fact his wife is worth 400 million dollars makes it an easier decision for him. That extra 5-10 million in some years allowed the Patriots to sign a few more stop-gap veterans every year. Having the money to sign a decent ILB would have really helped Rodgers the last couple of years or to be able to sign a good, veteran corner would have been nice in 2016 when the got to the NFC title game with Randall and Rollins as key guys in the backfield.

Brady's willingness to take less $ was matched by a New England front office that signed and traded for veteran players like almost no other in order to win Super Bowls.

Green Bay took the exact opposite approach with GM Ted Thompson boasting about how few players there were on the roster who came from other teams as if that was in and of itself some sort of achievement. Thus, it is doubtful GB would have "sign[ed] a good, veteran corner" or anyone else from outside the organization prior to Gutey's arrival even if Rodgers had been making less $.

Indeed, nothing actually prohibited Thompson from trying to upgrade over LaDarius Gunter as a starting CB on the 2016 team that Rodgers' carried to a NFC Championship game blowout by Atlanta other than his stubborn approach to roster building.

The GREATNESS in New England over the past 2 decades resulted from the combination of a great front office (when it came to veteran talent acquisition not the draft), a great head coach, and a great QB.

When it comes to the Packers front office, head coach, and QB over the past 13 years, the GREATNESS begins and ends with QB Aaron Rodgers.

Aaron Rodgers has more touchdown passes (39) than JK Scott has punts (38) in 2020, and Mason Crosby has only attempted 15 field goals.

Is there an echo in here?

@YATittle posted:

Aaron Rodgers has more touchdown passes (39) than JK Scott has punts (38) in 2020, and Mason Crosby has only attempted 15 field goals.

50 TD's and 15 FG's. That's a damn good team ratio. A typical McCarthy season saw Mason with 30+ FG attempts.

@Boris posted:

Aww damn....I thought this thread was going to be about MVS.

MVS = MVP

Keep going. Eventually you'll get Henry to stroke out.

At least as rare as a dominant QB is an owner/GM/coaching triumvirate that shares an outsized ability to construct a team. Not only by recognizing unsung talents but also getting them under contracts that don't cripple the team over the long term. Kraft/Belichek are, of course, the standard bearers for this.

I think the Packers are pretty good in this regard. They have 4 players that are in the argument for best at their position league wide (AR, Davantae,  Bahk and Alexander) plus high performers (starters for most other teams) in A Jones, Elgton, K Clark, M Crosby.

If depth has suffered, well, that's just the way it plays in the salary cap era.

Aaron Rodgers has 39 Pass TD & 4 INT this season.

There have only been 2 instances in NFL history of a QB throwing 40+ TD with fewer than 8 INT over a full season.

▪️ Aaron Rodgers in 2016 (40/7)
▪️ Aaron Rodgers in 2011 (45/6) pic.twitter.com/JpHo6tZnow

— NFLonCBS (@NFLonCBS) December 14, 2020

Aaron Rodgers, MVP. #GoPackGo pic.twitter.com/yJ0GBNAuhg

— 𝗠𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗛𝗼𝗽𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗿 🧀 (@Hopstradamus) December 14, 2020