Okay you armchair experts, where do we go from here? These past 2 seasons have ended in bitter disappointment. What needs to be done to the coaching staff and roster to give us a chance at another championship before the Giannis window closes?
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Don’t trade 5 second round picks for a guy who can’t get off the bench
I think it boils down to Dame Lillard. If he’s truly “all in” with the Bucks I say run it back for next season. If he’s not, Lillard still has a ton of value in terms of a trade.
I’d look to see what you could get for a package of Lopez and Beauchamp or Pat C.
Lopez is on an expiring contract next season. If he plays it out, you get nothing in return for him. He's going to be 37. Trade him and get something so you don't lose that salary cap slot for nothing next year at this time. Maybe someone in the West who has to play Jokic multiple times a year will give you something for him.
Connaughton should be moved for even a 2nd round pick to clear that 10 million.
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:Don’t trade 5 second round picks for a guy who can’t get off the bench
Or DDV for the corpse of Serge Ibaka.
Lopez has clearly lost a step but given how he can shoot and defend the rim I think he could have appeal to a team like the Knicks or Lakers or Miami or Philly.
He might also have value to a team looking to dump salary after this next year when his salary expires.
@RoyalWulff posted:Okay you armchair experts, where do we go from here? These past 2 seasons have ended in bitter disappointment.
First of all ....having Giannis 100% for round 1 would go a long way to winning a series. IDGAF if me or you were coaching the team.
He's been hurt the last 2 seasons when playoffs started. (Game 1 got hurt last year)
Yup, he was hurt the last 2 years at playoff time. He plays hard, 100% most of the time and has been doing that for years. He is a young man chronologically but has a lot of hard miles on his legs.
Not sure if hoping he will be healthy next spring is the right strategy. I would guess they will run this back again, it’s going to be an interesting off season.
Waiting to hear if Horst really does, in fact, leave for the Pistons. A lot going forward might hinge on how that rumor turns out.
Latest rumor is Philly will be going after Paul George.
Have to wonder what Miami does with Jimmy Buckets.
Then there’s NYK and Boston and a young and and coming Orlando team.
The East won’t get any easier next year and the Bucks won’t get any younger. So think it’s possible they might not run it back.
@DurangoDoug posted:Horst
Hworst
@Tschmack posted:Latest rumor is Philly will be going after Paul George.
Have to wonder what Miami does with Jimmy Buckets.
Then there’s NYK and Boston and a young and and coming Orlando team.
The East won’t get any easier next year and the Bucks won’t get any younger. So think it’s possible they might not run it back.
If Boston doesn't win it all this year, they'll probably blow things up even more than they did last year. I would guess Jaylen Brown would be moved for a package if they lose. They have no excuses this year with the Knicks being the only team left in the East with a chance of beating them in a series, but the Knicks are going to miss Julius Randle if they get to a series with the Celtics.
The Sixers and Bucks are still the best two other teams in the conference when healthy, but neither Giannis nor Embiid can stay healthy long enough to make a run and neither is getting any younger. Until this year there was a big difference between Embiid's injuries and Giannis' reasons for missing games.
Embiid has been in the league 10 years and has played 433 regular season games and 59 playoff games. His injuries are all just the result of his body not being able to support his frame (and maybe his lack of commitment to working out).
Giannis' previous injuries were all mostly freak things and not overuse injuries. He turned his ankle during the 2020 bubble playoffs. In 2021, Capela fell into his knee and most other players would have torn some knee ligaments. In 2023, he fell on his back. A lot of bad luck and guys trying to draw charges on him were the cause.
This year was different. It was a non-contact injury to his calf. That's more of an Embiid type injury and that's more of a concern long-term that he's breaking down.
@ShamsCharania: Milwaukee Bucks forward Thanasis Antetokounmpo has sustained a torn Achilles tendon and will undergo surgery, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.
Cheerleading injury?
Took one for his brother.
@ammo posted:Career ending injury for him
Maybe they can just pay him to be an Assistant Coach now.
@wojespn: Darvin Ham is joining the Milwaukee Bucks as the top assistant coach to Doc Rivers, sources tell ESPN. Ham returns to the franchise after spending two years as the Lakers head coach. He had been highly sought-after among teams this spring.
And they can fire Doc in the middle of next season and Ham can take over as head coach.
I want Larry Costello
What do the Bucks do in the draft this year? They have pick 23 and 33 in whats being called a weak draft by some. Do they stay and pick, try to move up a bit by trading both picks, trade them for a pretty good player at a position of need? I know they sure need some defense to help this team, the question is how do they get it.
@DurangoDoug posted:What do the Bucks do in the draft this year? They have pick 23 and 33 in whats being called a weak draft by some. Do they stay and pick, try to move up a bit by trading both picks, trade them for a pretty good player at a position of need? I know they sure need some defense to help this team, the question is how do they get it.
I think they could package them for something along with another asset or two.
Because of the way the salary cap rules work, they essentially are forced to trade Brook Lopez this year or lose that 25 million in cap space for nothing next summer. Because they are over the cap, if he retires after next year or they don't resign him, the 25 million in space goes away. They can trade him for the same amount of salary this year.
@ammo posted:And they can fire Doc in the middle of next season and Ham can take over as head coach.
Seems pretty clear that’s what will happen. And if we can see that right off the bat, it doesn’t say much about the wisdom of the FO. Looking like a clown show with the coaching carousel, almost no draft capital for the next 5-6 years, and a malcontent aging superstar that would rather retire than play D.
@tsr86free posted:Seems pretty clear that’s what will happen. And if we can see that right off the bat, it doesn’t say much about the wisdom of the FO. Looking like a clown show with the coaching carousel, almost no draft capital for the next 5-6 years, and a malcontent aging superstar that would rather retire than play D.
Almost every move Horst has made since the PJ Tucker trade has been questionable.
Giving up almost every 2nd round pick you have for Jae Crowder two years ago.
Trading the only decent young asset you had in DDV for the corpse of Serge Ibaka.
The roster construction this past year when they ended up with the worst combination of backcourt starting guards on defense with Lillard and Beasley.
Firing Bud to go to Griffin and then end up with Rivers (if you were going to do that, they should have just kept Bud).
In the end though, if Giannis is healthy for the playoffs this year they end up in the Eastern Conference Finals and were probably the only real threat to Boston.
In other words, he can screw everything up, but if Giannis is healthy come playoff time, they'll have a shot to advance deep int he playoffs each of the next 2-3 years.
In reality though, I think their title window was from 2019-22. And they got one title out of that window. They couldn't adjust when Nurse built the wall in 2019. The 2020 bubble happened when they clearly had a juggernaut going that year and they just were never the same when they restarted. Things went right for them in 2021 when Middleton morphed into Durant in the playoffs and then Middleton got hurt in 2022, or I think they win back-to-back that year.
I still think they have a chance to win another title over the next couple of seasons but it’s likely going to mean trading Lopez and Portis to do so. The bench has to get better and those are the only two assets they have.
@Pikes Peak posted:I want Larry Costello
I'll take Abbott & Costello if it gets us another Championship 🏆
@Tschmack posted:it’s likely going to mean trading Lopez and Portis to do so.
Can't trade Bobby. Find another way
@Tschmack posted:I still think they have a chance to win another title over the next couple of seasons but it’s likely going to mean trading Lopez and Portis to do so. The bench has to get better and those are the only two assets they have.
I think another title is highly doubtful, but not completely impossible. The main guys, other than Giannis, are all on the downside of their careers (Lillard, Middleton, Lopez). The example would be the 2022 Warriors who got another title out of Steph-Klay-Draymond because Wiggins and Poole had outlier career years. You'd need someone like Marjon-Ajax-Livingston to emerge as a borderline all-star 3 and D wing (2022 Wiggins) and AJ Green to shoot like 2022 Poole. It's possible that Green could replicate the 2022 Poole role. He's actually a better all-around player because he offers some resistance on defense.
However, the key guy for that 2022 Warriors team was Wiggins. He completely shut down Tatum in the Finals. However, Wiggins was the #1 overall pick in a draft and a former ROY. 2022 was the one year he really played to his ability. You could argue he is one of the biggest underachievers of the last 10 years given 2022 should have been his normal output.
I just don't see the same level upside to Marjon-Ajax-Livingston. They were late first-round and second round picks for a reason.
That's the thing about the modern NBA. You need a superstar to win and then you need elite wing defenders that can hit enough open 3s to keep defenses honest. Boston has White and Jrue. The Bucks had Jrue and Tucker the year they won. Wiggins became that guy for the 2022 Warriors. The Lakers won in the bubble because of Alex Caruso and KCP. The Nuggets won because they had Brown and KCP. The problem is that guys like Jrue, White, Caruso, KCP, and Wiggins aren't good enough players to warrant max contracts with a team without a superstar. But then a team wins a title and the role players get paid big money and then the team recedes. I love Jrue, but that contract for 4 more years is an albatross.
The Celtics lucked up big time this year in their playoff matchups. A Celtics series with a healthy Bucks team or against the Nuggets or Wolves would have really tested them.
@Boris posted:I'll take Abbott & Costello if it gets us another Championship 🏆
Can't trade Bobby. Find another way
The problem is two fold with Bobby.
First, he's probably the only guy outside their top 4 that will bring back anything of value. Connaughton,
Second, he has the same problem on defense Lopez has with the current team construction. If your two starting guards are both terrible defenders, you need the guys playing the 5 to be very good defenders. Lopez is an elite rim protector, but can't guard in space and when guys come off screens wide open against Dame and Beasley with no rear contest to worry about it, it's hard for anyone, let alone a guy like Lopez. Portis can't guard in space and is a poor rim protector. He is a very good defensive rebounder though.
The irony to all of this is that the Giannis-Khris-Jrue trio probably wasn't good enough to win a title because they needed to be paired with another good offensive guard that could hit shots under playoff pressure and not be a complete liability on defense. In other words, they needed a poor man's Lillard type. Now it's likely the Giannis-Khris-Dame trio isn't good enough to win a title because they needed a defensive oriented guard who can hit just enough open shots to not be a complete liability on offense. In other words, they need a poor man's Holiday type. Pat Bev was about as good as they were going to get with the money they have to spend. He gave them a chance if Giannis would have stayed healthy.
Guard Delon Wright is leaving the Miami Heat to join the Milwaukee Bucks, reports ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Last season, he averaged 5.4 points and 2.6 assists while shooting 37% on 3s. 1 year, 3.3 million
Considering what options they had, this is a great pickup. If I had to guess, he’s probably the backup PG to Dame but he’s also got the size and skills to play the 2 guard as well.
His stats won’t overwhelm you, but he’s played in over 40 playoff games and in the postseason he’s a 43% shooter from 3. He’s also a very competent defender. In college, he’s was one of the best defensive guards in the country.
The way I view him is a slightly smaller but more athletic version of Wes Matthews. Matthews was probably a better rebounder but Wright is probably a better passer.
I also saw later today they signed Stanley Umude to a 2 way contract from Detroit. He’s a 6’6” guy with a long wingspan (sound familiar) that saw action in about 25 games for the Pistons this year. Good defender, and shot almost 45% from 3. So a poor man’s 3 and D guy.
Things worked out well with AJ Green going this route so worth a shot.
Bucks are working out Sam Dekker.
https://behindthebuckpass.com/...d-out-wisconsin-star
We need to replace Thanasis's role as head cheerleader somehow. Why not with a guy who grew up cheering for the Bucks.
@ShamsCharania: Free agent F Taurean Prince plans to sign a deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, sources tell @TheAthletic
Prince averaged 8.9 points and 2.9 rebounds while shooting 39.6 percent from 3-point land in 78 games for the Lakers last season. He’s now expected to play a strong role in the Bucks frontcourt.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:We need to replace Thanasis's role as head cheerleader somehow. Why not with a guy who grew up cheering for the Bucks.
I’m busy.
Taurean Prince was Darvin Ham's favorite player with the Lakers. Ham took a lot of criticism for supposedly playing him too many minutes.
Taurean Prince, Wright, Jackson Jr., Beauchamp, Livingston, and the two rookies are all basically the same type of player. They all should be much better at the point of attack on defense than Beasley, Cam Payne, and Lillard (the three guards the first half of last year). And they'll all likely struggle to hit open 3s.
It does look like Horst is going to prioritize having as many guys on the roster other than Lillard that offer at least some resistance to blow byes.
It won't be with Malik Beasley along for the ride.
They may miss his 3pt shooting but he was awful defensively. They could not pair he and Damian Lillard together at all but given roster construction they didn’t have many choices.
The two guys they added (Wright and Prince) are both capable defenders and solid shooters and I still think there’s hope for Jax Jr if he can get better offensively. Livingston and maybe Beauchamp are likely on their way out.
The key thing is what happens next with Lopez and Pat C and Portis. For all of his defensive flaws I think you must keep Portis because he’s a fantastic scorer and decent rebounder and his contract is really a bargain.
Pat C is on the other end of the spectrum and if someone did indeed offer Milwaukee a 2025 or 2026 1st rounder for Lopez I think you jump all over that. Especially if they can find a way to add a guy like Paul Reed who was just waived by the Sixers. He’s not as skilled offensively as Brook but he’s a far more versatile defender and can make a 3pt shot if need be.
@Tschmack posted:The key thing is what happens next with Lopez and Pat C and Portis. For all of his defensive flaws I think you must keep Portis because he’s a fantastic scorer and decent rebounder and his contract is really a bargain.
Pat C is on the other end of the spectrum and if someone did indeed offer Milwaukee a 2025 or 2026 1st rounder for Lopez I think you jump all over that. Especially if they can find a way to add a guy like Paul Reed who was just waived by the Sixers. He’s not as skilled offensively as Brook but he’s a far more versatile defender and can make a 3pt shot if need be.
The big thing with Lopez is he's an expiring contract. If he plays the contract out and doesn't resign, the Bucks lose that 23 million in salary cap space for nothing because they are already way over the cap and the aprons. If you can flip him for an non-expiring contract with another year or two you keep that space.
I agree on Portis. He is what he is - an offensive spark plug off the bench that can provide offense for the 10-15 minutes a game Giannis sits. 20-25 minutes is ideal for Bobby.
Connaughton has a terrible contract right now. I'll preface this by saying that Connaughton is a better athlete than 99.9% of people on the planet (baseball star, huge vertical leap, etc.). However, compared to NBA guards and wings he was just athletic enough to be a solid defender when he was in his mid to late 20s (from 2018-2022 which was the Bucks playoff runs). Now that he's older and dinged up, he's lost that lateral mobility he couldn't afford to lose.
Portis playing 20-25 minutes a game in the playoffs and Pat C. playing 6-8 filler minutes (the Jeff Teague title run minutes) is fine. Expecting them to play 30-35 is not a recipe for success.
Maybe AJ Green can continue to develop into the Pat C. role from 2021? He's a better shooter, roughly the same size, and showed some improvement last year on defense on not being a Beasley-like traffic cone. I think if things stay the same way the roster is right now, Green may end up starting.
