Zach Wilson-Jets-Jets-Jets

As much of a pain in the ass Rodgers can be with "I'm immunized" and his other weird comments, you can see why Gute wants to milk everything they can to keep a HOF QB around.

I fully get wanting to move on from a dude who can be a Diva at times, costs a major chunk of your salary cap, but Jesus, the alternatives to what the NFL is cranking out at the most important position in the game is at times, tragic.

This dude. Murray in AZ. The Giants are likely moving on from Daniel Jones in 23. The Bears gave up a ton for Mitch who busted (although no talent around him didn't help).  We could go on and on.

Good luck getting WIlson to get the confidence of the locker room back. And keep in mind, this Jets team is actually winning this year.   

I agree with Gute with keeping a HOF QB around for as long as you can.  Can't say I blame him considering what the alternatives could be. 

I have to wonder what is the entire story with Wilson and the Jets.  The team is winning so why now?

12 is coming back...no way he goes out on the heels of a season like this when in his mind he believes he's got at least 2 seasons left in him. If the Packers were in a position to make a run at the Super Bowl, that's a different conversation...if they won it, I could see him stepping down on top. But not coming out of his worst season in a while.

Packers may look very different next season with all the FA they stand to lose, and the fact their two best OL haven't played well coming off injuries. I could see them cutting bait on Bakh, and I could see them walking away from Jenkins who is likely to get the biggest OG contract in the NFL...even with his injury history...even if it's not a record OG contract, it's likely still too rich for the Packers blood.

Crosby will be gone, Marcedes and Cobby will be gone, Amos likely gone...a lot of 12's "inner circle" will be gone...he may ask for a trade. But he's playing in 2023...question is whether it's for the Packers or someone else.

Pretty good case to be made that the organization felt the SB window with AR was still open and they miscalculated. More obvious to me now than it was at the time that taking the massive compensation you could have gotten for the QB was the right move.

@Chongo posted:

12 is coming back...no way he goes out on the heels of a season like this when in his mind he believes he's got at least 2 seasons left in him. If the Packers were in a position to make a run at the Super Bowl, that's a different conversation...if they won it, I could see him stepping down on top. But not coming out of his worst season in a while.

12's thumb, not unlike his knee injury where he allegedly broke that a few years ago, also gives him an out this season. If they continue the major offensive suckage as they have all year, he can blame the thumb and it will come out it's fractured. If he somehow mounts a massive comeback and the Packers finish 9-8, he will look like the hero/warrior and the media will lap it up how he played so well with major hand injury. Either way, it's a Win/Win for Rodgers and his ego.

I would agree, short of going to the SB, there is no way he exits this way. The Packers at best I think win another 2 games.

I would agree that a decent amount of player turnover occurs in the offseason. The Packers will save money dumping Bakh, Amos, Cobb, Crosby, and Lewis.

At 6-11, with a top 10(ish) draft pick, they can go get a fairly decent, instant impact player. Again, I do not see that as a WR that high. A new franchise LT, a pass rusher alongside Gary or a sparkly new safety seems much more in line with what the Packers do.

Also, to put it another way regarding #69 next season:

If Bakhtiari were a free agent next season, would you sign him to a 2-year, $39-million deal? That's basically the option Green Bay will have. His remaining contract is 2 years, $62,131,031, but $23,131,031 is guaranteed, leaving 2 years-$39mil. If they cut him they'd save $39mil

— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) November 23, 2022

@packerboi posted:

As much of a pain in the ass Rodgers can be with "I'm immunized" and his other weird comments, you can see why Gute wants to milk everything they can to keep a HOF QB around.

I fully get wanting to move on from a dude who can be a Diva at times, costs a major chunk of your salary cap, but Jesus, the alternatives to what the NFL is cranking out at the most important position in the game is at times, tragic.

This dude. Murray in AZ. The Giants are likely moving on from Daniel Jones in 23. The Bears gave up a ton for Mitch who busted (although no talent around him didn't help).  We could go on and on.

Good luck getting WIlson to get the confidence of the locker room back. And keep in mind, this Jets team is actually winning this year.   

     

Daniel Jones would make a  nice backup.

@packerboi posted:

12's thumb, not unlike his knee injury where he allegedly broke that a few years ago, also gives him an out this season. If they continue the major offensive suckage as they have all year, he can blame the thumb and it will come out it's fractured. If he somehow mounts a massive comeback and the Packers finish 9-8, he will look like the hero/warrior and the media will lap it up how he played so well with major hand injury. Either way, it's a Win/Win for Rodgers and his ego.

I would agree, short of going to the SB, there is no way he exits this way. The Packers at best I think win another 2 games.

I would agree that a decent amount of player turnover occurs in the offseason. The Packers will save money dumping Bakh, Amos, Cobb, Crosby, and Lewis.

At 6-11, with a top 10(ish) draft pick, they can go get a fairly decent, instant impact player. Again, I do not see that as a WR that high. A new franchise LT, a pass rusher alongside Gary or a sparkly new safety seems much more in line with what the Packers do.

Will Gary even play in 2023? The way the last couple of Packers with torn ACLs have not produced and given when he tore his ACL we may not see him until 2024.

@packerboi posted:

12's thumb, not unlike his knee injury where he allegedly broke that a few years ago, also gives him an out this season. If they continue the major offensive suckage as they have all year, he can blame the thumb and it will come out it's fractured. If he somehow mounts a massive comeback and the Packers finish 9-8, he will look like the hero/warrior and the media will lap it up how he played so well with major hand injury. Either way, it's a Win/Win for Rodgers and his ego.

I would agree, short of going to the SB, there is no way he exits this way. The Packers at best I think win another 2 games.

I would agree that a decent amount of player turnover occurs in the offseason. The Packers will save money dumping Bakh, Amos, Cobb, Crosby, and Lewis.

At 6-11, with a top 10(ish) draft pick, they can go get a fairly decent, instant impact player. Again, I do not see that as a WR that high. A new franchise LT, a pass rusher alongside Gary or a sparkly new safety seems much more in line with what the Packers do.

A top 10 pick you go after LT, elite pass rusher, or franchise QB...possibly a generational CB. Only offensive player they'd take top 10 would be QB...or if you had the chance to get a Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, etc. And there aren't any of those WR this year. If Jordan Addison tests well, he will likely got top 5 or 6. Beyond that, WR talent drops off significantly. Several good LT, no generational CB to speak of. So my guess is LT or Edge.

I'll go into more detail in the draft thread.

As high as the pick will be next year, they’re looking top 5 in 2024. Love will get one full season to show if he’s got it or not.

@Chongo posted:

12 is coming back...no way he goes out on the heels of a season like this when in his mind he believes he's got at least 2 seasons left in him. If the Packers were in a position to make a run at the Super Bowl, that's a different conversation...if they won it, I could see him stepping down on top. But not coming out of his worst season in a while.

Packers may look very different next season with all the FA they stand to lose, and the fact their two best OL haven't played well coming off injuries. I could see them cutting bait on Bakh, and I could see them walking away from Jenkins who is likely to get the biggest OG contract in the NFL...even with his injury history...even if it's not a record OG contract, it's likely still too rich for the Packers blood.

Crosby will be gone, Marcedes and Cobby will be gone, Amos likely gone...a lot of 12's "inner circle" will be gone...he may ask for a trade. But he's playing in 2023...question is whether it's for the Packers or someone else.

They can't do anything with AR until June, from what I have heard.

They can’t realistically move on from Rodgers until June given cap hit ramifications.  

I do think what should happen is once the season is over Gute and Murphy should confer with 12 and see what he wants to do.  Given the state of their roster and cap situation it’s not like they can go out and add a few impact free agents.   The uncertainty of Gary and to some extent Bak and Jenkins doesn’t help matters either.

They will likely have a top 10 pick which could allow them to add another weapon but will that be enough to make them a real threat?  I’m not sure it will.

The absolute best course of action would be to find a trade partner.  Hell, I’d even let Rodgers choose the destination.  Lots of teams in the AFC would fit the bill.  The Titans, Colts, Jets, Patriots and Steelers come to mind.  The Niners, Lions, Giants, and maybe Bucs or Falcons in the NFC.  I’m sure there are other possibilities.

The trade value for Rodgers probably won’t be as much as we think, but a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd and a player would seem about right.   Had it been this past offseason, multiple 1sts would have been in play.

It is so easy being GM of the Packers as it is being GM of the Brewers.

Just take a few more bites from the apple ammo you will feel a lot better.

Packer fans already giving up on next season like spoiled brats

To continue our song lyric exercise…..in the year2525

@Chongo posted:

12 is coming back...no way he goes out on the heels of a season like this when in his mind he believes he's got at least 2 seasons left in him. If the Packers were in a position to make a run at the Super Bowl, that's a different conversation...if they won it, I could see him stepping down on top. But not coming out of his worst season in a while.

Packers may look very different next season with all the FA they stand to lose, and the fact their two best OL haven't played well coming off injuries. I could see them cutting bait on Bakh, and I could see them walking away from Jenkins who is likely to get the biggest OG contract in the NFL...even with his injury history...even if it's not a record OG contract, it's likely still too rich for the Packers blood.

Crosby will be gone, Marcedes and Cobby will be gone, Amos likely gone...a lot of 12's "inner circle" will be gone...he may ask for a trade. But he's playing in 2023...question is whether it's for the Packers or someone else.

And unless Ball comes up with another cap miracle, you can add Aaron Jones to the list of those who will be gone. Again, I get back to my question about what positions do we draft, next draft. Any FAs out there we could afford? If Rodgers goes, and somehow his cap hit disappears, I think it will have to be the Love show, as there are very few QBs, of a starting caliber, who we could get to replace him. I am fine with putting Love out there. He, at least, knows the system and has practiced with our young WRs. Yes, there would be growing pains, but not as much as there would be if we went with a fresh face at QB, no matter if that fresh face is a rookie or a FA, from somewhere else. And tell me that this season doesn't feel like we are going through growing pains! I too, however, think Rodgers will be back. I think he wants another ring. IMO, this year's problems begin with the massive contract the Packers gave Rodgers. Rodgers knew that once he signed his new deal, Davante was gone,  because there was no $$$ to re-sign him. Problem is, I think all the other veteran WRs who were/are available, like OBJ, would command a contract giving them $$$ similar to what Davante wanted, as well. No way could GB afford one of those guys, otherwise they would have done something, by the trade deadline.  As for those positions to draft, and I'm talking the early rounds, we need a TE who fits GB's offense; a RB to pair with Dillon, if Jones leaves; a Safety, to replace Amos or Savage; another speedy WR; OL help because If Rodgers does leave, I can see Bakhtiari hanging it up, too, and there has been plenty of "sieve" to go around, this season, from all over the OL. GB's Draft and Develop philosophy had better get our back-up and starting OL players to learn their positions and play them like pros, or whomever our QB is, next season, will be running for his life.

I don’t think Rodgers will retire, but I do wonder if he wants to return to a team that clearly doesn’t have enough talent and coaching to really compete.  And that’s assuming guys like Bak (healthy) and Jones (cap hit) and Gary (ACL) play at a high level.

He still has plenty of ability and value - albeit less than last year or previous year.  To that extent, I think they should consider dealing him especially if the team on the other hand is willing to take on or provide salary relief.

It’s not about giving up; it’s about being practical and realistic.  Plus, do you not think Rodgers wants to leave on top?  Even the most myopic Packers fans can agree that’s likely not going to happen in Green Bay.  

They took their shot this year and failed.  Running it back next year makes little sense, but then again I wonder if MM and Gute and Ball really care about that?  They seem to be more about protecting their own jobs and status.

There was money to sign 17...they offered more than the Raiders but he wanted to leave.

Cap room is often used as an excuse when it isn't. There are ways to manipulate it and get out of bad situations...especially with the impending bump to it. There are teams seemingly in perpetual cap hell who find a way.

AR has a broken thumb. 

If any kind of trade scenario were to develop for Rodgers, I think the Packers would do well to demand compensation equal to or greater than what teams have given up to acquire Wilson, Stafford, and even Watson.
Good, bad, otherwise, that's the market. If teams don't want to give up that kind of scratch, they're not going to find a better deal magically appearing.

The only disadvantage that I see could be if team(s) would want the Packers to absorb some of Rodgers' salary to facilitate a trade, but that's more negotiable.

@D J posted:

Will Gary even play in 2023? The way the last couple of Packers with torn ACLs have not produced and given when he tore his ACL we may not see him until 2024.

Gary (24 years old) tore his ACL in early November.

Jenkins (25 years old) tore his ACL in late November. He missed 1 game in 2022.

Tonyan (27 years old) tore his ACL in late October. He's played every game in 2022. 

Based on this, somehow you conclude Gary - a monster workout  guy - will miss the 2023 season completely?

I can only assume you are basing this on Bahktiari.

Bahk (29 years old) tears his ACL Dec 31, 2020. Misses all of 2021 due to multiple setbacks. Misses a few games this year too. This is what what is referred to as an outlier. His rehab/recovery period is not typical for an ACL tear in the 2020's.

So yeah, let's treat everyone as an outlier. Makes sense.

He’ll be back when he is back…no one knows.

Back on topic, from The Athletic:

"After one touchdown drive, White returned to the sideline and, together with Flacco, practice squad quarterback Chris Streveler and quarterbacks coach Rob Calabrese, watched film on a tablet. Wilson sat alone, elsewhere."

When you get benched for having a bad attitude, pouting on the sidelines is not exactly how you win the team back in your favor.

@Pikes Peak posted:

He’ll be back when he is back…no one knows.

Right. But if Gary were to miss the 2023 season he would be - you guessed it - an outlier.

The more important factor is how good he is when he gets back.

@PackerHawk posted:

Bahk (29 years old) tears his ACL Dec 31, 2020. Misses all of 2021 due to multiple setbacks. Misses a few games this year too. This is what what is referred to as an outlier. His rehab/recovery period is not typical for an ACL tear in the 2020's.

So yeah, let's treat everyone as an outlier. Makes sense.

Per Gute, Bakh did far more than just tear his ACL. Reports were he blew out the ACL and other ligaments, then had a ton of fluid build up needing multiple knee taps, not to mention re-injuring the knee playing on that shit turf in Detroit.

This was a nightmare injury and not at all comparible to the vast majority of ACL injuries.     

So yes, it's utterly stupid to think Gary somehow goes down the same length of time off.   

Jets are...not too bad.  Imagine them with a good QB, say a future HOF QB.  Would GB ever ship such a guy to NYJ? 

That’s unprecedented.

BK making up words again....I believe the correct term is unpresidented.

@DH13 posted:

Jets are...not too bad.  Imagine them with a good QB, say a future HOF QB.  Would GB ever ship such a guy to NYJ?

Well at least if they did that he would be out of the division. Out of the conference and you would likely never face him head to head.

Right?

RIGHT??

@PackerHawk posted:

Well at least if they did that he would be out of the division. Out of the conference and you would likely never face him head to head.

Right?

RIGHT??

We would have to wait for the schedule makers to determine if we play the Vikings in 2024 to know the answer to that question.

Why should the Packers be concerned about playing against AR?  Especially a 39 year old, somewhat dinged up AR.  

If they want to trade him and if they can trade him make the best deal for the Pack, his destination be damned.

One last (hopefully) word about ACL, or other major injuries...
When trying to estimate a potential return date, it seems to me it's not so much the specific injury as it is when it occurs.
In Gary's case, a best case scenario is him being healed enough for TC (roughly 9 months and somewhat questionable) or the start of the season (10 months, more realistic).
If I go with my theory of it taking most of a full year to heal, that would put him into October/November. So it's possible he may not miss any time, or he could miss half the season
Jenkins and Tonyan returned at roughly 10 months, but have struggled to return to their formal level of performance (insert Tonyan joke here). Now that it's been closer to a year, they both are improving.

Playing and playing like before the injury are 2 different things.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Why should the Packers be concerned about playing against AR?

The whole premise was a joke.