Zooked!

To me, it's another indication of there being little to no discipline present within the entire team--players AND coaches.
If it were only one unit or a particular position, I'd be much more likely to take it with a grain of salt. When it shows up in multiple players across multiple positions, it's a trend.
King is not held accountable for his plays.
Zook is not held accountable by Capers.
Capers is not held responsible by McCarthy.

To me, it's another indication of there being little to no discipline present within the entire team--players AND coaches.
If it were only one unit or a particular position, I'd be much more likely to take it with a grain of salt. When it shows up in multiple players across multiple positions, it's a trend.
King is not held accountable for his plays.
Zook is not held accountable by anybody apparently. Bennett? 
Capers is not held responsible by McCarthy.

They should bench King and J.Jones. These mental errors are inexcusable. 

The fair catch penalty didn't seem right. What is to prevent a player from juggling the ball all the way to the endzone?  Once a ball is bobbled it should be hit away. Look at baseball, once a fielder touches a flyball the runner can take off.  The rule prevents a fielder from juggling a ball and running all the way to the infield to prevent a runner from tagging up and advancing.  Does the current rule mean a guy doing a fair catch can do the same? 

warrenspahn posted:

Someone should sit down and talk to King and J.Jones. These mental errors are inexcusable. 

ammo posted:

The fair catch penalty didn't seem right. What is to prevent a player from juggling the ball all the way to the endzone?  Once a ball is bobbled it should be hit away. Look at baseball, once a fielder touches a flyball the runner can take off.  The rule prevents a fielder from juggling a ball and running all the way to the infield to prevent a runner from tagging up and advancing.  Does the current rule mean a guy doing a fair catch can do the same? 

perfect post.  we discussed the same thing the other night - juggle that baby all the way to the endzone.  it's why 78,000 people at Lambeau were incensed with the call - it didn't meet the eye test.  your football mind automatically went "that should be a free ball".  and then the zebra tosses his hanky to make it all surreal.

ammo posted:

What is to prevent a player from juggling the ball all the way to the endzone?  

The fact he called a fair catch.

You know... pure randomness and sorry if someone with a good memory had already pointed this out somewhere, YouTube suggested a compilation of "Come on, man!(s)". Anyway I thought, hey, those are fun. And I never watch highlights anymore, and definitely not Come On Man so what the heck. I'll watch it. You know. To lighten the football mode as it were.

And for some reason this clip ends up in the compilation three different times...

https://youtu.be/zB0i9XMi_XQ?t=1m50s

It was vaguely familiar but I didn't remember that play at all. Or that disaster game. I had moved on with my life. But it was apparently 2016 so hey I googled Packers Titans muffed punt.... and got the full clip with replays and whatnot:

http://www.titansonline.com/vi...d3-bd16-8189a1ef2367

and also this article:

http://www.packersnews.com/sto...tly-called/93781932/

So yeah. Same damn thing. Goes against us. Back judge apparently came up with the rule and still told them to stuff it. CBS announcers of course don't know the rule and don't discuss it at all.

As usual rules enforced in a 'however they feel like it' manner with zero accountability.

I'm not clicking any more NFL videos this season.

michiganjoe posted:

ammo posted:

What is to prevent a player from juggling the ball all the way to the endzone?  

The fact he called a fair catch.

So what if he did call a fair catch. Does that mean you can take 1 step on a muffed fair catch, 2 steps if you are juggling it? 3 steps?  All the way to mid field? Even the endzone?  I want answer to this. 

Rule books like the rules themselves, can be bent - even by the refs themselves.  The answer lies in money - the, um, ref pay off - Goodell greed taught us that.  

I can't remember the last time special teams actually did something good. Not counting Mason Crosby. Randall Cobbs first year maybe? 

No wait....I KNOW! It was Trevor Davis in preseason. 

ammo posted:

So what if he did call a fair catch. Does that mean you can take 1 step on a muffed fair catch, 2 steps if you are juggling it? 3 steps?  All the way to mid field? Even the endzone?  I want answer to this. 

Like almost all penalties, there is judgment involved but you can't intentionally muff the ball forward. Link 

Item 4: Intentional Muff. An intentional muff forward prior to a catch in order to gain ground is an illegal bat (see 12-1-8).

Brainwashed Boris posted:

I can't remember the last time special teams actually did something good. Not counting Mason Crosby. Randall Cobbs first year maybe? 

No wait....I KNOW! It was Trevor Davis in preseason. 

We haven't had good special teams since Nolan Cromwell left.

Yeah, it's funny, I remember when Nolan Cromwell started, the Pack's special teams weren't so great, but by 1996 when they won the Super Bowl, those special teams were a weapon all by themselves.  They had everything you could want, great punter in Hentrich, good kicker in Jacke, very good coverage units, and then for returners you had Desmond Howard who was a fantastic Punt Returner and in addition to Howard even Don Beebe could do some damage at times on Kick Returns.

I don't know that we'll ever see a unit in Green Bay as great as that '96 special teams unit was, man were they good.  Cromwell definitely deserves some credit for coordinating that excellent unit. 

Brainwashed Boris posted:

I can't remember the last time special teams actually did something good. Not counting Mason Crosby. Randall Cobbs first year maybe? 

No wait....I KNOW! It was Trevor Davis in preseason. 

I would go back to the Crabtree special vs. CHI in 2012.

ammo posted:

michiganjoe posted:

ammo posted:

What is to prevent a player from juggling the ball all the way to the endzone?  

The fact he called a fair catch.

So what if he did call a fair catch. Does that mean you can take 1 step on a muffed fair catch, 2 steps if you are juggling it? 3 steps?  All the way to mid field? Even the endzone?  I want answer to this. 

I assume in that case then the ball would be spotted where he initially touched the ball.

Has it really been 5 years?!?! Back to Crabtree??

fightphoe93 posted:

Yeah, it's funny, I remember when Nolan Cromwell started, the Pack's special teams weren't so great, but by 1996 when they won the Super Bowl, those special teams were a weapon all by themselves.  They had everything you could want, great punter in Hentrich, good kicker in Jacke, very good coverage units, and then for returners you had Desmond Howard who was a fantastic Punt Returner and in addition to Howard even Don Beebe could do some damage at times on Kick Returns.

I don't know that we'll ever see a unit in Green Bay as great as that '96 special teams unit was, man were they good.  Cromwell definitely deserves some credit for coordinating that excellent unit. 

I don't know the answer to this, but is it possible that one of the reasons Cromwell's units were so good was that they had a lot of veterans playing? I would imagine it's harder to have good special teams when you are constantly keeping a bunch of UDFAs and younger players. Before the salary cap/free agency really kicked in, you could keep some of the backup guys longer and you get continuity.

Interesting thought MichiganPacker... that team did have more veteran type guys on their team than most teams keep nowadays.  I remember vet Mike Prior being a good special teams guy, plus of course Howard and Beebe were good veterans on returns.  

Here's his career highlights. Love Crabtree not just for his humorous tweets but it was obvious he loved to play. Here's a career highlights video:

Brainwashed Boris posted:

I can't remember the last time special teams actually did something good. Not counting Mason Crosby. Randall Cobbs first year maybe? 

No wait....I KNOW! It was Trevor Davis in preseason. 

Micah Hyde had two punt return TDs in 2014. A 75 yarder in week 11 against the Eagles, and a 55 yard return against the Lions in week 17.

It doesn't matter, it is all Hundley's fault.

Yup - QB gets all the credit when winning & takes all the blame when losing.

Part of the job.

Play better & he won't have that perception

Except when it's a kicker missing a game-winning FG, then it's the kicker's fault.