1973 -MNF Jets @ Packers (County Stadium)

Capers might learn a thing or two about hair from studying tapes of Cosell...

Loved the commercials!

I liked the National Anthem being sung like its suppose to be...

Love the old hammond soundtrack for pregame.

"nobody lost more critical games to them in the history of football than Don Meredith".

Jesus, Howard.  Way introduce your partner.

Dave in GA posted:

I liked the National Anthem being sung like its suppose to be...

Watch a Buffalo Sabres home game when Doug Allen sings the anthems.No one does a better job!  

"The Angular One" 

Buddy Ryan sighting! 

Man this is painful to watch. I lived through this terrible era of Packer football once already. A couple of early observations: Funny as heck to see the goal posts on the goal line with the support right in the middle of the end zone. Man, how stupid was that! Ball spotted at the 20 yard line after a missed field goal instead of the line of scrimmage. Only 1 TV commercial during breaks in the game.

Scott Hunter is just as bad as I remembered. Other teams just put about 9-10 guys in the box to stop the Pack running game because their passing attack was so bad. Dude's career stats: 44.8 completion % - 23 TD passes and 38 ints. - QB rating of 55.0. 1973 was actually his last year with the Packers. Too bad because the Pack actually had a pretty good D during this time frame and it's the only thing that kept them in games. I remember them losing to the Redskins 16-3 in the 1972 playoffs when their D played pretty good but their O with Hunter at QB was complete crap. 

Hadl to the rescue!

Joe Namath's bomb to Bobby Brady (Brady Bunch) was the best play of the night.

Maxi54,

"I remember them losing to the Redskins 16-3 in the 1972 playoffs when their D played pretty good but their O with Hunter at QB was complete crap. "

Yeah, I well remember that game.  The Redskins just stacked the line of scrimmage on defense.  It was pathetic.  No passing threat whatsoever on what was otherwise a really good team.

Guys, I too well remember that '73 MNF game vs. the Jets, and the '72 playoff loss to the Redskins.  I actually had the opportunity to speak at length with Scott Hunter just a couple of months ago, and I thought the insights he shared were quite interesting.  The bulk were about that '72 Redskins game.  He relayed that many people forget that on the Packers first drive of the game they ran and passed against that Redskin five man line down the field and went up 3-0.  Hunter comes back to the sideline and Bart Starr, who was the QB coach and de-facto Offensive Coordinator, says to him, "If they stay in that five man line, we can throw against them all day.  No way Chris Hanburger is going to be able to cover MacArthur Lane."  So the next time the Packers got the ball on offense, and the Redskins are still playing the five man line, Hunter is expecting to pass.  But the call from the sideline is to run.  Hunter was confused.  As he comes back to the sideline, he sees that Starr and head coach Dan Devine are now standing many yards apart.  When he asks Bart why no calls to pass, Bart simply states "You'll have to ask Coach Devine."  As we all know from multiple articles over the years, Devine took over the offensive play calling from Bart and for reasons we'll never understand stubbornly and stupidly decided to try and pound the ball all day against that five man line.  When I asked Hunter why he thought Devine did that, he simply responded "That was Dan Devine."  Hunter added that he thought if Bart had been allowed to continue to call the plays that day, they would have beaten the Redskins.  Then they would've played the Cowboys in Green Bay, who he pointed out the Packers had beaten in Milwaukee earlier that season.  If they had, they would've had a shot at the Dolphins.  And Hunter said people forget that back in those days the starters played in the pre-season, and the Packers beat the Dolphins the last game of that '72 pre-season in Miami.  He felt the Packers were a much bigger, more physical team and would've matched up well in the Super Bowl.  No one will ever know because of Dan Devine.  He was by far the worst GM and Head Coach the Packers have had since Lombardi, and that '72 team was young and full of potential.  We had the running tandem of Brockington and Lane, and that '72 Packer defense was actually #1 in the NFC, #2 in the NFL (to the Dolphins).  We beat a very good Jets team to open that '73 season.  But when CB Willie Buchanon went down in Los Angeles a few weeks later, the defense -- and season -- collapsed.  But in '74, the defense was rock solid again with Buchanon back and having added Ted Hendricks.  If Devine hadn't traded away that year not only two #1's, two #2's and a #3 for 34-year old and washed up John Hadl, but also two #2's for a no-talent QB like Jim Del Gaizo, he may have actually had a great team in the making.  Devine was a jerk, and single-handedly destroyed the entire decade of the '70s for the Packer franchise and their fans.   

That's a great story.  Thanks for sharing.  

By the way, for those interested, here's my exchange of emails with Scott:

From: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM
To: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
Date: 12/27/2016 06:33 PM
Subject: Re: Great Visit
Scott, I can't thank you enough for making the time today to share with me so much about your early '70s Packer memories. I enjoyed every minute of it, and appreciate your saying you felt the same. Thank you too for these great additional photos. Love them! I promised I'd put that book in the mail to you tomorrow, but after spending the last couple of hours going through my personal Packer scrapbooks and photocopying things for you out of them, here's what you'll be receiving:

The book "Green Bay's Packers Return to Glory" by Bob Rubin. This was the book I mentioned. It was published in 1973 and does a great job of chronicling the '72 season. Please let me know once you review it if you've ever seen it before. My gift to you.

The book "The Pro Football Experience" by David Boss. On pages 148 and 149 is that great photo of you jumping for joy after beating the Vikings in Minnesota in 1972. Wasn't sure if you had this, so my gift to you as well.

A half-inch thick assortment of photos and articles that I pulled from my personal scrapbook. What I was looking for was anything that I had that specifically involved you. I hope you find much of this new and of value. Was my pleasure to pull together for you.

Please let me know after you've received and had a chance to look through what you think of the whole package. Thanks again Scott!

From: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
To: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM@IBMUS
Date: 12/27/2016 04:00 PM
Subject: Great Visit
Steve: Enjoyed visiting with you and you stirred up some great ‘old’ memories. Attachments are pics you might enjoy from the ’72 season and John Brockington and I on the field at Lambeau for Alumni game.
Go Pack
Scott
J. Scott Hunter
Branch Manager
Investment Management Consultant
Scott.Hunter@raymondjames.com
www.raymondjames.com/GulfCoastGroup
251-433-1133
251-433-1166/Fax
955 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604

From: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
To: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM@IBMUS
Date: 12/26/2016 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Steve: Sure…call anytime tom’w afternoon after 2pm.
Scott

From: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM
To: "Scott Hunter" <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
Date: 12/26/2016 10:40 AM
Subject: Fw: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Scott, hope you had a nice Christmas yesterday...and enjoyed the Packers beating the Vikings on Saturday! I've come up with the attached list of questions I'd love to run by you, thought you would appreciate a chance to review beforehand. Though I know this is quite comprehensive, I'm of course not a journalist interviewing you, but just a fan who hopes you actually find this helpful as the basis for a very casual conversation. Out of respect for your time, please let me know if this is too extensive. If so, I'll just choose the 2-3 questions I'm most interested in asking you. You said any time Tues-Thurs this week works. Wed or Thurs best for me, so will try you one of those two days. Thanks again Scott!

From: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
To: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM@IBMUS
Date: 12/23/2016 04:07 PM
Subject: Re: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Anytime Tues-Thrs...will be in the office
Go Pack

From: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM
To: "Scott Hunter" <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
Date: 12/23/2016 03:33 PM
Subject: Fw: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Scott, when would be best for you to have this call? During the work day? An evening or weekend? And as I want to be respectful of your time, how much would you want to allot? I'm sure I could talk to you for hours, that's why I ask.  Of course, this is just meant to be totally informal. Although if OK with you, I've already started writing down a number of questions I'd love to run by you. Assuming you'd get a kick out of. I'm thinking easier on you if I forward those ahead of time if OK with you. Though excited to talk with you, no particular rush. I happen to be off from work all next week if that works for you, but we can just as easily put this off until sometime early in 2017 that works better for you. Will look forward to hearing from you. Thanks Scott. And again, Merry Christmas to you and yours.

From: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM
To: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
Date: 12/22/2016 04:57 PM
Subject: RE: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Scott, I will do that! Thanks so much for the offer -- and the early Christmas gift! 

From: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
To: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM@IBMUS
Date: 12/22/2016 04:51 PM
Subject: RE: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Steve…what a memory….you got it all just perfect. Call sometime and will go over that Redskin playoff game.
Roll Tide, Go Pack, and Merry Christmas
Scott
J. Scott Hunter
Branch Manager/Investment Management Consultant
scott.hunter@raymondjames.com
www.raymondjames.com/GulfCoastGroup
251-433-1133
251-433-1166/Fax
955 Dauphin Street
Mobile, AL 36604

From: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM
To: "Scott Hunter" <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
Cc: "John Brockington" 
Date: 12/22/2016 02:05 PM
Subject: Fw: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Scott, greatly appreciate the quick reply, the insights into that memorable game and the photos! In addition to what I shared on that video, I'll mention that I was only 15 during that '72 season. Nonetheless, my memories from then are clear and numerous. Though I've been a fervent Packers fan for almost 50 years now, and have enjoyed many incredible Packer players and seasons in that span, the '72 team and season remain closest to my heart. Seeing only a few games on TV that year from New Jersey, I followed best as I could from afar and easily recount many wonderful memories:

How you guys bounced back from a 4-8-2 season the year before to go 10-4 and win the NFC Central Division
How you did so primarily behind the strength of John Brockington's and MacArthur Lane's running and the #1 defense in the NFC, #2 in the NFL behind only the Super Bowl Champion Dolphins
How despite season-ending injuries to the great guard Gale Gillingham and TE Rich McGeorge you still led an effective offense
How Willie Buchanon's addition, though only a rookie, seemed to embolden the entire defense
How you unjustly lost to the Raiders early in the season at home due to the incorrect call on MacArthur Lane's muff that led to Jack Tatum's record-setting return TD that was the difference in the game
How you shockingly upset the Super Bowl Champion Cowboys in Milwaukee to stamp yourselves as legitimate contenders
How you came back against an enormous deficit and the Lions in Detroit on Monday Night Football behind Ken Ellis' electrifying 80 yard punt return for a TD and your last-second TD pass to Leland Glass. This was the first game I saw live that season on TV, watching it on my little black & white TV in my bedroom, and jumping for joy when you threw that TD pass.
How if not for a rare Chester Marcol missed FG you'd have beaten the Falcons in what ended up a 10-9 rain-soaked defeat in Milwaukee
How you beat Steve Spurrier and his 49ers in an exciting 34-24 win in Milwaukee behind that beautiful bomb you threw to John and Ken Ellis' last minute sideline INT return for a TD
How you just destroyed the Lions in Green Bay 33-7 to set yourselves up for the division title showdown with the Vikings the next week
How after a close first half, you just dominated on both offense and defense to decisively beat the Vikings 23-7 in Minnesota and win the division against a team that would go on to multiple Super Bowls in the immediate following years. This was only the third Packers game telecast to NJ that year (after the aforementioned MNF Lions game and the regular season game against the Redskins). And though I only have the NFL Films' produced highlight film from that season and the Game of the Week segment that recounted this contest, almost every play from this game is still clearly etched in my memory.

And those are just some highlights off the top of my head! I have to also tell you that your loss that season to the Redskins in the playoff game at Washington was just gut-wrenching for me, and I've forever believed that if the coaching had been better that day, you'd have won that game and had a legitimate shot to get to and win the Super Bowl. I don't know how many others felt this way, but when the Packers beat the Redskins last year in the playoffs at Washington -- the first time both teams had met each other in the playoffs since 1972 -- it was, for me, after 40+ years, some measure of payback and a slight healing of that old wound.

Bottom line, that '72 Packer team and season will forever be an enormous part of my love for the Packers, and for that, I am sincerely and deeply appreciative. I don't know if we'll ever have the chance to meet in person, or maybe just find the time to talk live about those days -- especially with the benefit of hindsight, and the perspectives and wisdom that come with age -- but either way I thank you for what you've meant to me all these years, and for being kind enough to respond to me today. Again, my best wishes not only for a happy holiday and great new year, but always. Thanks again Scott.

From: Scott Hunter <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
To: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: John Brockington 
Date: 12/22/2016 12:27 PM
Subject: RE: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Steve: Thanks for the video and recall of the ’72 Viking game in old Met in Bloomington. Couple of pics from that Viking game you mention. Believe it was 12 below at kickoff and notice I don’t have long sleeves on in first half…thought I would show how tough I was! Notice Bart and Dan Devine with John Deere Snowmobile suits on…Red Cochrane in the background. At the half Bob Noel (equipment man) found me a long sleeve warm shirt to wear! Pic of John with me in background is later in the game when we were running the clock out with the 23-7 lead and I was enjoying watching him stomp on and over the Vikings. It was a great day for Packer football and me.
Copied John on this.
Go Pack

Scott Hunter
QB/1972 Central Division Champs

From: Steven Schumer/White Plains/IBM
To: "Scott Hunter" <Scott.Hunter@RaymondJames.com>
Date: 12/22/2016 11:54 AM
Subject: 1972 PACKER TEAM MENTIONED BY PACKER FAN HALL OF FAMER ON PACKERS.COM
Scott, thought you'd appreciate knowing that I talk specifically about that great '72 Packers team you quarterbacked in my opening comments on this video that the Packers recently produced. Per my email below, if you go to the 14:25 mark, you'll see what I mean. I would think you'd get a kick out of it, as well as these photos from my basement I'm attaching. Maybe you'll want to share this video and photos with some of your old teammates? Please let me know? Thanks, and Happy Holidays and New Year!

Packers Life Video - Hall of Fame Fans 12/16/16 (Steve & Adam Schumer 14:25-22:31): http://www.packers.com/media-c...0b-84d3-1bd10dd12f92

Lastly, here were the questions I prepared for my discussion with Scott Hunter, sent to him ahead of time:

STEVE SCHUMER QUESTIONS FOR SCOTT HUNTER,

GREEN BAY PACKERS QUARTERBACK 1971 - 1973

12/26/16 

OVERALL WHILE YOU WERE THERE

• You commented to your ex-teammate Larry McCarren in the Packer Alumni Spotlight you did in 2013 that your years with the Packers were “just magic.”   Can you expand on why you feel that way, what you meant?  
• What specifically are your fondest memories from that time?  Least fond?
• Did you happen to see what Packer historian Cliff Christl wrote just earlier this month (12/1/16) about you and your Packer ’72 team?  What’s your take on it?  “The best of the post-Lombardi, pre-Holmgren Packers:  Covering the 24-year blot from 1968 to 1991.  No Packers fan who followed the team during the 24-year drought between Vince Lombardi’s last season as coach and Mike Holmgren’s first needs to be reminded about how bleak things appeared to be for most of that time.  The bottom line tells all:  One division title; Two playoff appearances; One playoff victory; Five winning seasons.  But there was a handful of teams that were competitive and created hope. Here’s a list of the five best Packers teams from 1968 through 1991.  #1:  1972 – Winners of the NFC Central with a 10-4 record, the ’72 Packers featured a defense that finished second in the league in yards allowed and a running game that ranked seventh. John Brockington and MacArthur Lane combined for 1,848 rushing yards. Cornerback Willie Buchanon was the consensus NFL defensive rookie of the year and kicker Chester Marcol the consensus NFC rookie of the year. Defensive tackle Bob Brown and linebacker Fred Carr were Pro Bowl picks, along with Brockington and Marcol; while Ken Ellis, Buchanon’s counterpart at cornerback, was an Associated Press and United Press International All-Pro. The Packers lost to Washington, 16-3, in the playoffs when quarterback Scott Hunter’s limitations were exposed and coach Dan Devine stuck with his running game against a five-man defensive front. But that’s not to say Hunter was bereft of redeeming qualities. He was a strong leader who was being hailed as a young Bart Starr, his quarterback coach that year and a fellow University of Alabama alumnus.”  Link:  http://www.packers.com/news-an...d8-9aef-ea7ef30aae99 

GAMES

• What games stand out most to you and why?
• What’s your take on these specific games from that era that stood out most to me?  What do you remember most about them?

1971:

1972:

1973:

TEAMMATES

• Who were you closest to then?
• What did you think of John Brockington?  MacArthur Lane?  Willie Buchanon? 
• Other teammates that stood out? 

COACHES/STAFF

• What was it like having Bart Starr as your QB coach in ’72?
• What did you think of Dan Devine as the head coach then?
• Any other coaches (e.g. Bob Schnelker) and/or staff (e.g. Bob Harlan, Pat Peppler, Dominic Olejniczak) that stood out to you at the time, have comments about? 

POST 1971-1973

• With the benefit of hindsight, what if anything would you change/have done differently?  What would the Scott Hunter of 2016 tell/advise the Scott Hunter of the early 1970s?
• After such a successful season in ’72, why do you think the Packers were unable to follow it up with even just a winning season for the next few?
• History hasn’t been kind to Dan Devine.  Many extremely negative comments by ex-players, staff and Packer writers have been published over the years.  What’s your perspective on all that?
• Why do you think John Brockington’s career/success went downhill so quickly? 
• What did you think of the John Hadl trade, at the time it was made and now?
• Why do you think Bart Starr was unsuccessful in his 9 years as the Packers head coach?
• Along similar lines, when you see the sustained success the Packers have enjoyed the last 25 years or so, why do you think the Packers of the ‘70s and ‘80s didn’t enjoy the same?
• What are the biggest differences you see in Green Bay now versus when you played, e.g. the stadium, the facilities, the organization, the town, etc.?
• What former Packer teammates, coaches, staff are you most in touch with to this day?
• How often have you run into Packer fans who (like me) well remember you and those Packer teams from the early ‘70s?
• What photos, articles, any other memorabilia from your time with the Packers means the most to you, and why?  Do you have any kind of “scrapbook” you’ve put together?  e.g. Photos from games, such as the ’72 Vikings game (Do you have the one I have on my basement wall with you jumping for joy)?  Articles from magazines like the Sports Illustrated one about you being coached by Bart Starr?  Packer Yearbooks from those years?  Books, such as “Green Bay’s Packers Return to Glory?”  Other?
• What video do you personally own of your time with the Packers? e.g. Packer season highlight films?  NFL Games of the Week?  Other?
• Between your wife Deborah (a former Alabama cheerleader you married in ’71), your three children and five (or more now?) grandchildren, how intimate are they with your Packers career?  What videos have they seen of you playing then?  Have they been to Green Bay?
• Do you actively follow today’s Packers?  If so, what do you think of their chances to get to the Super Bowl this year?  Win it?
• Anything else I didn’t think to ask that you’d like to share, want me to know?

phaedrus posted:

Maxi54,

"I remember them losing to the Redskins 16-3 in the 1972 playoffs when their D played pretty good but their O with Hunter at QB was complete crap. "

Yeah, I well remember that game.  The Redskins just stacked the line of scrimmage on defense.  It was pathetic.  No passing threat whatsoever on what was otherwise a really good team.

Yeah, Bart Starr wanted to play action but stubborn, petty Dan Devine would have none of that.... biggest jerk to ever coach the Pack.

All that and not 1 mention of the russians.  So disappointing.

sschumer posted:

Guys, I too well remember that '73 MNF game vs. the Jets, and the '72 playoff loss to the Redskins.  I actually had the opportunity to speak at length with Scott Hunter just a couple of months ago, and I thought the insights he shared were quite interesting.

Great posts and information sschumer! Really interesting insight. I may have been a little harsh on Scott Hunter in my original post but I'll let his career stats speak for themselves. I was actually pretty excited when the Pack drafted him and had high hopes for his career after his early showing. I agree that Devine was a complete catastrophe for the Packers and an overbearing jerk. He was way over his head and had no business being the Packers head coach let alone their GM as well. He had around a .500 record while here and most of the success was because the Pack happened to have a good Defense during his tenure. Willie Buchanon and some of those other guys on the D side of the ball were really good players. Their running game was pretty good too but they had absolutely no passing attack. Imagine how much better Lane and Brockington would have been if other teams wouldn't have been able to continually stack the box to stop them.

Devine set the disastrous run in motion that lasted all of the way through the Starr, Gregg, and Infante years until Harlan, Wolf, and Holmgren got things straightened out. The Hadl trade alone was unbelievable and every bit as stupid as the Hershel Walker trade if not worse. The 1st round picks of Jerry Tagge, Barry Smith, Barty Smith, and no pick in 1975 were brutal. A good year here and there, but no consistent success whatsoever.   

Steve.

You are indeed the Packers greatest fan!

Well, you and Kworst.

Blair Kiel, thanks man, you are too funny!!!   

And let's not forget that Devine wasn't going to let Rudy play.

sschumer, please don't encourage him. 

MAXI54:  "Devine set the disastrous run in motion that lasted all of the way through the Starr, Gregg, and Infante years until Harlan, Wolf, and Holmgren got things straightened out."

I agree, but will add that Starr and Gregg contributed mightily to their own demise.  Like every Packer fan, I was rooting for Bart to succeed as a head coach.  Devine left him with no high picks the first couple of years.  That, and his own inexperience as a head coach, really held him back in his early years.  But later on I believe it was his inexperience as a GM, and even more so, his surprising stubborness to not listen to his top draft guy, Dick Corrick, that killed him.  If he had listened to Corrick, he would've taken Ronnie Lott instead of Rich Campbell, and Joe Montana instead of some no-name DT from Maryland.  Like Starr, Gregg had no experience as a GM, but nonetheless thought he could be an effective one.  When Harlan hired Braatz, they were on the right track and Braatz actually had some pretty good drafts.  But Infante was a horrible head coach, and Harlan didn't give Braatz the total control he then gave Wolf.  Bottom line, an experienced, separate GM might have helped both Starr and Gregg be successful as head coaches, but it took the franchise more than 20 years to realize that.  Just thankful Harlan finally realized that, set up the structure that has been the foundation of our winning the last 25 years. 

I've said this several times over the years, but if Eddie Lee Ivery doesn't get hurt on that ****ty Soldier Field turf (twice), Starr is much more successful. Ivery generated as much excitement as any rookie RB the Packers have ever had. He was a potential HOFer. IF they'd have had an offense with Lofton and Ivery, it would have been tough to stop.

The Ivery injury and the Lynn Dickey injuries did in Starr as much as his crappy GM decisions. Dickey was a very good passer. If he was playing with the rules as they are today he'd be a top 10 QB.

Gregg was just a Rex Ryan type. His shtick works for a year or two but wears out pretty quickly. Gregg's teams were full of cheap shot artists - which was the culture set up by the coach.

Devine certainly did the Packers no favors.  Then he bolts to Notre Dame without anyone having a clue.

I don't know how to feel about Gregg.  Maybe he unglued trying to be competitive with a bad team.  I say this because I thought his Bengal team, which really should have won the SB against the 49ers, was one fine looking coached team.  They had a terrible start in that game and at a critical juncture, Pete Johnson was stopped cold near the GL (he always gave them at least a yard).

The cupboard was pretty bare during Starr's tenure, but I never understood why he let Ted Hendricks go.  Hendrick's year (did he play only one year in GB?) was unbelievable.

Back to the Redskin game.  Either I did not know of Devine's insistence on running the ball or I forgot.  What a doofus.

MichiganPacker posted:

I've said this several times over the years, but if Eddie Lee Ivery doesn't get hurt on that ****ty Soldier Field turf (twice), Starr is much more successful. Ivery generated as much excitement as any rookie RB the Packers have ever had.

Reminds me of a hilarious parody song I heard years ago. It was sung to the melody of, "Ebony and Ivory" by Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney and it went something like this:

Eddie Lee Ivery....Side by side with Harlan Huckleby...In the backfield behind Lynn Dickey...

I doubt if that's even right but it went something like that. I wish I could remember where in the heck I saw or heard it because it was pretty funny.

MichiganPacker, good points about Ivery and Dickey.  I remember Cliff Christl gushing over how electrifying Ivery looked in the '79 pre-season, specifically on some incredible run against the Chiefs.  In all fairness to Starr, it seemed his teams not only suffered from many injuries, but to so many of his top players.  I agree Ivery (two bad knee injuries two straight years) and Dickey (broke leg so bad he missed 1 1/2 seasons) are atop that list, but so is Mark Koncar (great young OT, #1 pick in '76, ravaged by ankle injuries); John Anderson (OLB, #1B in '78, three broken arms three straight years); and Mike Hunt (MLB, #2 in '78, retired quickly because of headaches).  Starr also suffered a couple of major, surprise defections with Bruce Clark (DT, #1 in '80) going to Canada and Mile Butler (DE, #1A in '77) going to the USFL in '83.  I still though believe with a quality GM, Ted Hendricks, Bruce Clark and Mike Butler never leave, we draft and trade a whole lot better, and Starr would have been a successful, winning head coach.     

I was a pre-teen when Starr was fired, but I think it surprised a lot of people. He had gone 8-8, 5-3-1 (with a playoff win in strike season),and then 8-8 the last three years he was the coach.

I think what was even more surprising was that he never worked in football again. At 49 years old he was done. Starr was quoted well after this as saying that "coaching was the greatest mistake he ever made in his life." You have to wonder if he'd had success if he would have felt that way.

http://www.bizjournals.com/mil...-starr-coaching.html

“The greatest mistake I made in my life was attempting to coach. The great lesson — it could apply to any of us — was I hadn’t prepared to coach. I had not planned to, I hadn’t prepared to. And I didn’t have the guts to say to the Packers ‘Thank you but no thank you, I’m not going to do it.’

"Because I wasn’t prepared and it showed over the first few years and I felt very, very badly about that. So I think we can all learn lessons from errors of some others if you listen closely to why they did or did not do something. That’s probably the biggest error of my life, but those things happen. “

MichiganPacker, slight correction:  Starr coached 9 years ('75-'83).  He had two winning seasons:  8-7-1 in '78 and 5-3-1 in '82, when they won one playoff game.  He was fired after going 8-8 in '83, missing the playoffs that they would have made if they'd beaten the Bears that last game -- and which they had won until the Bears kicked a last second FG.  I had read that too about Bart's regrets, and it's sad.  Think the world of him as a player and his loyalty to the Packers.  But if he knew he had little to no coaching experience, he also should have known with no GM experience he was setting himself up for failure.  He should have suggested the Packers hire a real GM.  Worst case, he should have delegated that responsibility to Dick Corrick or other(s).  I think it shouldn't have taken him 9 seasons to figure out something was fundamentally wrong that was keeping them from winning.  At the end of the day, he only had himself to blame.  Still, a sad chapter for the franchise and one of our greatest of heroes.

I blame the Packer organization for having such a screwed up structure and attempting to make football decisions by committee. Still unbelievable to me that they appeared satisfied with that dysfunctional front office for so long until Bob Harlan finally came to the rescue.

 I think it shouldn't have taken him 9 seasons to figure out something was fundamentally wrong that was keeping them from winning.

How long did it take McCarthy to figure out Special Teams was a problem, and how long will it take him to figure out Capers is a liability?

Touche Fedya!

By the way, does anybody here know of any other full game from '71, '72 or '73 available on YouTube and/or DVD other than this one in '73 against the Jets?

you might get lucky contacting this guy

http://greatgames77.tripod.com/packers.html

justinTV

Satori, Hungry5, thanks so much.

Yes, this was the doorstep to 20 years of darkness. But it's just so damned enjoyable to go back and revisit. 

The single best part is 9:18 when Paul Krause wanted absolutely nothing to do with Brockington who wanted 100% of Krause. 

sschumer posted:

Satori, Hungry5, thanks so much.

I looked a lot around YT after I found this '73 game and only found pieces of other Packers games from that time. As much as I'd like to forget the 70's Packers, they did have some fun games during the Starr years.

I think there were 1 or 2 other complete games out there.