2005 vs 2009

Defensive coordinator and special teams coach will be fired.

Thompson trades a second or third round pick for a veteran player that is a good bet to help the team right away. Other than that Thompson manages the draft much in the same way he always has.

Thompson is only slightly more aggressive in free agency (looks for another Woodson but avoid the huge names...like if Haynesworth is available) unless there are major changes with the defense. If something dramatic happens (a switch to a 3-4), then Thompson would go out and get 2 or 3 mid-level free agents and another 2-3 bottom-type free agents that would be good fits for the new defense.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:
What do you see?

New Defense Coordinator.

New Special Teams Coach.

In FA, I think TT will have his most agressive year yet-I could see him signing a higher tier LB or DE or OT or all the above.

Depending on FA, draft will focus on both lines, LB, and RB.

I was thinking the same thing. But this time around we are dealing with young talent that will hopefully result in a more sound base for the football team. This will be the last year that we can write-off as re-building. The next several years should produce sucessful seasons without excuse. We have the players and we have the money. We are beyond re-building this off season. It is that magical place were we use our cap space to fill some holes with solid free agents and have a championship franchise.

Throw in some coaching replacements and Super Bowl here we come!

DC and Special Teams coaches will be fired. It's what happens when a team underperforms. And it's not just underperforming, it's a noticeable lack of enthusiasm. They don't seem very interested in playing.

We need to spend some money on a pass rusher. One that can start immediately. I think you have to do this because Woodson and Harris aren't getting any younger.

We'll need som o-line help.

quote:

Posted 12-07-2008 06:55 PM quote:
Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:
What do you see?


New Defense Coordinator.

New Special Teams Coach.

In FA, I think TT will have his most agressive year yet-I could see him signing a higher tier LB or DE or OT or all the above.

Depending on FA, draft will focus on both lines, LB, and RB.

Yep, that's the ticket. The same old cop out of blaming assistance coaches for player personnel deficiencies.

There will be no high-tier players available in free agency. The only ones worth a darn will be franchised, as always. He might try but then again he already knows that FA provides very limited opportunities at excessivley high prices,

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:

What do you see?

2005 vs. 2009: TT took over a 10-6 team with no cap space and turned it into a 5 (maybe 6) win team with cap space. Three out of his four years, no playoffs.

Don't rely solely on the draft and FA signings of marginal players. TT needed to get the Packers financial books in order early on. He accomplished that. Now go out and sign a player or two that will make an impact. Kinda like '05 with Woodson and Pickett.

Dear Santa;

Please bring us a new defensive coordinator this year. Also a new special teams coach.

Could you please make sure that the special teams coach is William Henderson, someone who knows the game and was a remarkable special teams player evern well into his career as a starter and who play on those teams like it was the only way he could keep his job.

and a punter in a pear tree

"I see dead playoff chances."

Man it's strange how a few key injuries can lead to a messed up season!

I expect a big shake up in the coaching staff.

I could see maybe 1 big name in FA being signed but it's more likely 1 or 2 mid-level FA's will be signed on defense.

As for the draft, it will be run exactly the same. IF a good deal presents itself, I have confidence that TT will move up or down or aquire a player.... that's IF a good deal presents itself.

quote:

Originally posted by ILPack:
Yep, that's the ticket. The same old cop out of blaming assistance coaches for player personnel deficiencies.

I'm curious, do YOU think the assistant coaches have done a good job?

When MM first came in there was a big deal about switching from "weight lifting machines" to "free weights." Then this spring there was some talk about the new "free weights" system.
Might that have something to do with the injuries?
I also thought that PERHAPS the "full offseason participation" might have had something to do with the bizarre slew of injuries. Maybe they overworked themselves or something.

I think arguments could be made on whether or not to replace coaches on both offense and defense.
I'd give Bennett and Clements a pass on the offensive side, but everybody else seems to be mediocre at best.
Ditto for Schottenheimer and Wasington on defense; they may get a pass by a slim margin, but nobody else particularly impresses me.
It's hard to admit failure, and I'm sure MM wanted 'his guys' to succeed. But results are speaking for themselves, and it's time to cut our losses and move on.

quote:

Originally posted by PackerBacker77:
I was thinking the same thing. But this time around we are dealing with young talent that will hopefully result in a more sound base for the football team. This will be the last year that we can write-off as re-building. The next several years should produce sucessful seasons without excuse. We have the players and we have the money. We are beyond re-building this off season. It is that magical place were we use our cap space to fill some holes with solid free agents and have a championship franchise.

Throw in some coaching replacements and Super Bowl here we come!

You guys are loving your GM. He definitely made a good decision on Rodgers.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepChicago:

quote:

Originally posted by PackerBacker77:
I was thinking the same thing. But this time around we are dealing with young talent that will hopefully result in a more sound base for the football team. This will be the last year that we can write-off as re-building. The next several years should produce sucessful seasons without excuse. We have the players and we have the money. We are beyond re-building this off season. It is that magical place were we use our cap space to fill some holes with solid free agents and have a championship franchise.

Throw in some coaching replacements and Super Bowl here we come!

You guys are loving your GM. He definitely made a good decision on Rodgers.

I fail to see your point.

I like TT, I like Rodgers. I would gladly take Rodgers over Chicago's Merry-go-QB situation over the last several years.

I think the next year or so will determine whether TT has rebuilt a team that is poised to win championships or if he has created a mediocre yet sound team that cannot win championships. This will be determined by the number of championships over the next several years.

I see TT making a number of significant trades of our players to get a number of additional draft picks, then shrewdly trading down to get more, with the end result that we end up with 32 7th round draft picks in 2009.

We'll find some real gems in there, says TT. And save a lot of jack, too. My gosh, we'll draft the entire 7th round, save expenses and worry on day one, and make efficient use of our time, TT said.

Oddly, none of the picks will be used on offensive or defensive linemen.

The war in the trenches is overrated, says TT. All we need to do is zone block. MM will just have to get 'er fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by lunker:
The war in the trenches is overrated, says TT. All we need to do is zone block. MM will just have to get 'er fixed.

Awww, look who slunk out of the cesspool.

TT will only sign FAs nobody else wants. He got Woodson because nobody wanted to take a chance on him - but it turned out being buried in Oakland does not mean you're dead. So, maybe he'll sign Javon Walker or something.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:
2005



The Season: The Packers endure an injury filled season. Wide-outs Javon Walker and Robert Ferguson are injured and lost for the year. Running backs Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport and Tony Fischer are lost to injury. There are also a number of nagging injuries or injuries that take players out for a short period of time.The team finishes 4-12.

Here is the complete list of players that season that were on IR

11 B.J. Sander P 6-4 218 25 2 Ohio State Knee
26 Jason Horton CB 6-0 190 25 2 North Carolina A&T Shoulder
29 Walt Williams RB 6-1 215 28 3 Grambling St. Hamstring
30 Ahman Green RB 6-0 218 28 8 Nebraska Thigh tendon
38 Jeremy Thornburg S 6-0 196 20 R Northern Arizona Shoulder
44 Najeh Davenport RB 6-1 247 26 4 Miami (Fla.) Ankle
51 Brady Poppinga LB 6-3 245 25 R Brigham Young Knee
52 Kurt Campbell LB 6-1 227 22 R Albany Knee
55 Robert Thomas LB 6-0 233 25 4 UCLA Quadricep
84 Javon Walker WR 6-3 215 26 4 Florida St. Knee
86 Terrence Murphy WR 6-1 196 22 R Texas A&M Neck
88 Bubba Franks TE 6-6 265 27 6 Miami (Fla.) Neck/Back
89 Robert Ferguson WR 6-1 210 25 5 Texas A&M Knee


13 players total. Was a little surprised that you forgot Murphy. That was awful. One of the games that was seen here. Anyone ever hear how he is doing?

quote:

2008

Previous Season: Packers finish 13-3, win the NFC North and advance to the NFC Championship game where they lose to the Giants.

Off Season: In the offseason prior to the 2008 season the Packers endure an emotional and prolonged drama over the retirement, unretirement and eventual trade of Brett Favre. Brandon Chillar is signed as a Free Agent. Corey Williams is traded to Cleveland. Bubba Franks is released. The Packers trade out of the first round of the draft and pick Wide-out Jordy Nelson in the 2nd round.

The Season: The Packers again endure a number of injuries. Nick Barnett, Al Harris, Atari Bigby and Nick Colins are all lost for a significant number of games. There are also a number of nagging injuries or injuries that take players out for a short period of time. The team struggles, losing a number of close games and is 5-8 in the midst of a 4 game losing streak and eliminated from playoff contention as week 13 draws to a close.

This is the current IR list

19 Shaun Bodiford WR 5-11 196 26 3 Portland State Back 07/28
22 Pat Lee CB 6-0 194 24 R Auburn Knee 12/05
28 Kregg Lumpkin RB 5-11 228 24 R Georgia Hamstring 10/11
44 Evan Moore TE 6-6 247 23 R Stanford Knee 08/19
46 J.J. Jansen LS 6-2 256 22 R Notre Dame Knee 08/31
56 Nick Barnett LB 6-2 236 27 6 Oregon State Knee 12/01
77 Cullen Jenkins DE 6-2 305 27 5 Central Michigan Chest 10/01
93 Kenny Pettway DE 6-3 248 26 3 Grambling State Knee 12/01

8 total players

quote:

The Aftermath:????????????????


I see a lot of similarities between the two seasons. And while, I am sure McCarthy will not lose his job (he is TT's man, where Sherman was not) I would hope there are some changes made to the coaching staff. I also hope that TT does like he did in 2005 and try to bring in some help on the defense via free agency.

What do you see?

Like you I do not see MM being shown the door. But would not surprise me to see some changes in the ST and Defense coaching jobs.

Oh its probably me, but that picture from Sixth sense. First thing that comes to mind when I see the kid is Crikey he looks like Eli Manning.

The current IR list does not include KGB, who was a big loss when his knee never recovered, and it also does not include Atari Bigby, Aaron Rouse and Charlie Peprah.
Then you add in that Grant was hurt for the first part of the year, and we also had injuries up and down the offensive line early in the year.

Or Harrell or Grant or Rodgers or James Jones or JT or Tauscher or Clifton or Sitton or Wells or Woodson or Al Harris.... I mean come on.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:


"I see dead playoff chances."

The Giants lost two starters off their line from last year in Strahan and Osi Umenyiora.

The Titan's starting QB had a mental breakdown.

The Cowboys still have a shot at the playoffs after being rocked by injuries all year.

The great teams don't let player setbacks stop them. And outside of Jenkins and Barnett its a pretty mediocre list of IR players. We can't write off this season as due to injury.

Thompson made a major gamble by trading away their DT depth. It was a calculated gamble that really blew up in their face when they lost Jenkins- they were hoping to have him inside/outside while Thompson developed outside. When they lost Jenkins, there was no one left to get any push, which lead to tteams scheming away from Kampmann.

My guess is the Packers will go for DL depth early and often in thbe off-season. Here are the FAs:

DT
Kenderick Allen UFA Vikings
Jonathan Babineaux UFA Falcons
Rocky Bernard UFA Seahawks
Shaun Cody UFA Lions
Colin Cole UFA Packers
Damane Duckett UFA 49ers
Dwan Edwards UFA Ravens
Fred Evans RFA Vikings
Gary Gibson RFA Panthers
La’Roi Glover UFA Rams
Kedric Golston RFA Redskins
Howard Green UFA Seahawks
Jovan Haye UFA Buccaneers
Albert Haynesworth UFA Titans
Grady Jackson UFA Falcons
Jason Jefferson UFA Falcons
Tank Johnson UFA Cowboys
William Joseph UFA Raiders
Jimmy Kennedy UFA Jaguars
Antwan Lake UFA Saints
Brandon McKinney RFA Ravens
Anthony Montgomery RFA Redskins
Kenny Peterson UFA Broncos
James Reed UFA Saints
Darrell Reid UFA Colts
Ryan Sims UFA Buccaneers
Kenny Smith UFA Patriots
Montavious Stanley RFA Saints
John Thornton UFA Bengals
Kevin Vickerson RFA Titans
Darwin Walker UFA Panthers
Gabe Watson RFA Cardinals
Mike Wright UFA Patriots
Ellis Wyms UFA Vikings
Jeff Zgonina UFA Texans

DE
Victor Adeyanju RFA Rams
Jason Babin UFA Chiefs
Bertrand Berry UFA Cardinals
Stephen Bowen RFA Cowboys
Chris Canty UFA Cowboys
Kevin Carter UFA Buccaneers
Earl Cochran RFA Texans
Phillip Daniels UFA Redskins
Chauncey Davis UFA Falcons
Ebenezer Ekuban UFA Broncos
Demetric Evans UFA Redskins
Ronald Fields UFA 49ers
Otis Grigsby RFA Vikings
Jason Hunter RFA Packers
Stanley McClover RFA Texans
Jerome McDougle UFA Giants
Jayme Mitchell RFA Vikings
Mike Montgomery UFA Packers
Eric Moore UFA Rams
C.J. Mosley UFA Jets
Igor Olshansky UFA Chargers
Julius Peppers UFA Panthers
Orpheus Roye UFA Steelers
Corey Smith UFA Lions
Antonio Smith UFA Cardinals
Josh Thomas UFA Colts
Kenechi Udeze UFA Vikings
James Wyche RFA Jaguars
Renaldo Wynn UFA Giants

Anyone expecting Thompson to make a big signing via FA is dreaming. Peppers will be franchised. Of course, the Packers will have a 1st round pick to deal if Peppers doesn't like the Panthers, but he a Carolina guy, so I doubt he leaves. Seriously doubt it.

{EDIT}I did overlook Haynesworth. Like Peppers, it is very likely he'll get franchised and remain with his team.

quote:

Originally posted by PackerBacker77:
The Giants lost two starters off their line from last year in Strahan and Osi Umenyiora.

The Titan's starting QB had a mental breakdown.

The Cowboys still have a shot at the playoffs after being rocked by injuries all year.

The great teams don't let player setbacks stop them. And outside of Jenkins and Barnett its a pretty mediocre list of IR players. We can't write off this season as due to injury.

The difference is, those teams have great depth at the positions they suffered losses at. They had starters backing up starters which is an oddity. The Cowboys went downhill when they lost Romo because they had junk at backup QB.

We don't have starters backing up starters except at CB. We had good starters but our backups are guys that are only good for 4 or 5 plays a game. If we had a Justin Tuck or a Mathias Kiuwanuka backing up Jenkins, we would be ok.

Haynesworth or Peppers. Be bold, TT!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d806b4b5f&templ...t-video&confirm=true

Haynesworth was tagged last year. No can do again.

Haynesworth possible

Let's play a what-if scenario. Let's say that TT has decided to go after Haynesworth or Peppers. Just one of them, though. Who would you recommend for him to choose?

quote:

Originally posted by who:
Let's play a what-if scenario. Let's say that TT has decided to go after Haynesworth or Peppers. Just one of them, though. Who would you recommend for him to choose?

thats not what I'd like to talk about

OK, so Fat Albert got a deal that will allow him to be a FA. Would Thompson part with 7 years, $75M with +$30 guaranteed? That's what it's going to take. The richest contract ever given to a DT in the history of the game...

quote:

Let's play a what-if scenario. Let's say that TT has decided to go after Haynesworth or Peppers. Just one of them, though. Who would you recommend for him to choose?

Personally, I would take Peppers. I think you can get away with serviceable DTs if your ends are good- Peppers is in a category by himself. Him and Kampmann would sack the QB more than 25 times together.

Problem is that Peppers does not allow LB play to roam free like Haynesworth. He also lines up at RE on passing downs. Peppers had a horrific season last year and is going for the Brackens pay day.

quote:

Originally posted by Iowacheese:

quote:

Originally posted by who:
Let's play a what-if scenario. Let's say that TT has decided to go after Haynesworth or Peppers. Just one of them, though. Who would you recommend for him to choose?

thats not what I'd like to talk about

Don't you have a highschool keg party to bust up?

Wow, talk about a weak d-line crop. That list is full of 3 types of players: high draft picks that never panned out, veterans who are past their prime, and average players in their prime. Still, that won't stop people from clamoring for TT to sign one of these bums.

This team has 3 choices to improve the d-line talent: get Haynesworth, trade for someone, or get better from within. I have a feeling TT will go with improve from within.

This season is a strike out, personnel wise for the GM. He did it looking. No significant moves were made in the off-season to shore up weaknesses (OL, pass rush, play making TE, DT depth) or replace players that left. One LB was added. And $25M was left in the coffers for a rainy day, never to be able to be spent. I don't think Packer fans will tolerate another strike out looking. Gotta go down swinging. I'd rather them get it wrong signing some guys or trading precious draft picks for veterans, then standing pat and waiting for the numerous OLs drafted over the last 4 years to some day develop. Or for a DL to magically appear.

All the coaches that coached this team to 13-3 suddenly became stupid. Or maybe they didn't have the same bullets in the chamber? Don't get me wrong....I don't care one bit if a few guys are dumped starting with the Stock. But the issues don't exist only in the coordinators.

The injuries excuse to me is tired. Especially someone bringing up KGB! He was hurt last season AND CONTINUED TO MISS THE WHOLE OFF-SEASON! The management rolled the dice on him. They don't get a "pass" on that f up.

A few key players have been banged up. Collins has mostly played through and done fine. Bigby and Rouse have generally been there - at least one of them - though not at an acceptable level. Barnett was playing mediocre football before he went down, and an adequate backup was in place in Chillar. Jenkins injury cost them because they rolled the dice with KGB and replaced Williams with Harrell. Big screw up! Harris was only minimally missed when Williams stepped in and played like he did. Injuries happen. The "young" depth we were all promised did not get them through enough. I'm thinking the "young" talent we were promised is not so much "talent" and a whole lot more "young" than what we were sold.

Reading some of you, am I to surmise that the complete and total collapse of the defense comes down to one player's injury - Jenkins? No way - I don't buy that for a minute. Had Jenkins been in, sure...they'd have done better. But it is far too simplistic to blame it on that. There is a lot less talent on this team then we ever thought going into this season. And that falls right on the GM who struck out looking. Maybe he'll venture into the batters box this off-season and at least take a few swings. I know I'll appreciate the attempt much more than the display of this past off-season. Make it happen Ted.

quote:

Originally posted by BeerGuy:
Maybe he'll venture into the batters box this off-season and at least take a few swings. I know I'll appreciate the attempt much more than the display of this past off-season. Make it happen Ted.

Wow. That would be pretty stupid if TT just "took a few swings" in free agency just to keep people like you happy.

There are a lot of problems on this team and you can't blame the GM for everything. TT is just the scape goat. He needs to do better, but there are over 100 people on the sidelines and in the booth on game day. To blame one person just doesn't make sense.

All the people that want to bitch about Ted Thompson turning a 13-3 team into a 5-8 team need a reality check. We returned almost the exact same team. We traded away Corey Williams, who has done slightly better than Colin Cole, and Brett Favre, who has been equal to Aaron Rodgers. We added another weapon at receiver, Jordy Nelson, and we added a LB who can cover a tight end A LOT better than any of the guys we have on our roster. So far, in terms of talent, we were exactly the same as 2007, maybe even a little better than last year because of the improved depth at LB.

- Then we enter the season with Ryan Grant, KGB, Scott Wells, Ryan Pickett, James Jones, and Justin Harrell all dealing with injuries.

- Week 2, Atari Bigby hurts something and doesn't come back until week 9 and even then doesn't look like himself.

- Week 3, Al Harris busts his Spleen and is out until week 9...luckily we had good enough depth to not miss him.

- Week 4, Cullen Jenkins goes down for the season and KGB is still hurting. So now we have basically a 3rd stringer starting at DE with no FA's available. AJ Hawk hurts his groin in week 4 which has clearly slowed him down...it's a miracle he's been able to continue playing because groin injuries are very painful.

- Multiple times this season, Chad Clifton has had to go out and didn't play week 9.

- Week 10, Nick Barnett busts his knee and is done. The already dinged up AJ Hawk has to move to MLB, which makes his job even harder.

- Week 14, Mark Tauscher busts his knee and is done. Tony Moll has to step in, which is something he'd already had to do a couple times this season.

- In addition, Nick Collins, Aaron Rouse, Charlies Peprah, Aaron Rodgers, Korey Hall, Michael Montgomery, Jason Hunter, Brandon Chillar, Charles Woodson, and Pat Lee have all dealt with nagging injuries the entire season and have played anyway.

So the next time I see someone say the injury excuse is "tired" or "a cop out", I'm going to re-post this list and tell them to shut up. We've been hit HARD by injuries this season and the injuries NOT the GM have turned a 13-3 team into a 5-8 team.