2005 vs 2009

quote:

Originally posted by BeerGuy:
Clifton and Tauscher have made it a career of playing through injuries. Why now is it an excuse?

I'm not talking about the injuries they played through, I'm talking about the injuries where they had to leave the game. Moll has had to come in for Tauscher for a whole game what, 3 times this season plus the next 3 games? Colledge has had to slide over 3 or 4 times because Clifton has gone out. Plus Clifton has been dealing with knee problems that have clearly affected his game and Tauscher has been dealing with other stuff which has affected his game also.

Both guys didn't just become average players in 1 offseason without something directly causing them to struggle. That cause? Injuries.

quote:

Originally posted by BeerGuy:
I just don't give out passes as freely has you do.

I don't give out passes but I don't blame the GM for all the teams problems when the problems are things out of his control.

Last post.

Here is where we disagree. I think he does deserve some questioning for trading away depth and counting on injured players on the DL. You disagree. Fine.

I'm sure we both can agree, that there is a good amount of work that needs to be done to produce winning lines on both sides of the ball. Let's hope our guys can pull that off in the draft, through trades and through free agency. And I'll be thrilled to credit Thompson and his staff for doing so come next August.

What cracks me up is that you list Reggie and Michael Strahan. One is dead and the other is on TV. So there is no one? So how do you expect the Packers to get someone so rare? Jeez...try harder.

quote:

Originally posted by BeerGuy:
It matters on what you define as elite. To me, elite is a guy that can't be stopped even if he doesn't have talent around him. Reggie White, Michael Strahan, etc. I don't think Kampman can carry a DL like those elite players. Is he a Pro Bowl/Damn Good/DE. Yeah. But he needs help. That's what the Packers need. Splitting hairs is wasting yours and my time.

Duh, like we all didn't watch Reggie White get stopped cold in quite a few games during his time in GB. How old are you? ten

My final thought on the issue is this:

Thompson gambled on KGB being healthy enough to be the backup DE/situational pass rusher. He also gambled the trio of Jolly, Cole, and Harrell would make up for Williams. Did his gamble work? No, because of the injury to Jenkins who I have no doubt would have had a pro bowl season. That threw everything off. Suddenly the injured KGB had to step up ,and couldn't, which meant the trio of DTs couldn't work effectively. Like I said, it was a gamble. We can sit back now and say, "that was a dumb move, he should have brought in more help because KGB was already injured..." We have the advantage of hindsight though. Heck, I bet Ted Thompson would tell you his gamble failed. Had Jenkins not gotten hurt, our pass rush would have been better, our run LBs would be better, and our record would be better. That's not because Jenkins was a game changer/elite DE, it's because we had a very good front 4 that suddenly turned into a mediocre front 4 because the guys who once weren't the focus of offenses suddenly became the focus. Kampman could be double teamed without worrying about the other DE, Pickett or Jolly could be double teamed because our 3rd string DE is an easy 1 on 1.

Once again, Thompson gambled and it didn't work. That's the NFL. You don't get to the big show by playing it safe. I don't blame him for trying, I would have made the same move. What I really blame is 1) the injury bug and 2) Bob Sanders for not being able to adapt and find new ways to bring pressure rather than counting on Monty and Hunter to get to the QB.

last post

nuff said

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:


Once again, Thompson gambled and it didn't work. That's the NFL. You don't get to the big show by playing it safe. I don't blame him for trying, I would have made the same move. What I really blame is 1) the injury bug and 2) Bob Sanders for not being able to adapt and find new ways to bring pressure rather than counting on Monty and Hunter to get to the QB.

But why not hedge the bet, just a little bit, by spending some of the 20 million in cap space on another d-lineman. I understand the gamble, I understand that you have to gamble that players develop (and if the Pack was up against the cap I could understand that gamble). But, it seems to me that TT is still handling the team as if it had no cap room...and if that's the case....what good is the cap room?

I know, I know...it doesn't pay to go out and overspend constantly on FA...but couldn't TT have hedged the bet by finding an experienced DE who could offer more than Jeremy Thompson or Petway?

Everything has to be in context.

On September 30th, the Packers are 2-2. On September 30th, Cullen Jenkins is lost for the season.

The trading deadline is October 14th to really improve your team. After that day, you're going to just have free agents to choose from, free agents who no one really wants anyway.

Do you panic and trade for a defensive end at this point? Paying starter money, giving up high draft picks? What happens to this guy or Jenkins next year, when they both have starter's pay?

On October 13th, the Packers are 3-3, tied for 1st place in the NFC North. You make the call.

The trade that shoulda been made was Tony G

Last post

nuff said

Not the right place for it, but who cares.

TD, I remember the Evridge thread very well.
Beerguy cracked me up with his Wisconsin "sources" BS. It was something right out of PackerChatters.
What also cracked me up was his attempt at telling me, a K-state alum, who is a K-state season tix holder, who works, sees, and talks to other KSU fans everyday, and who also belongs to one of the largest KSU fan clubs out there, (Flint Hills Cat Backers) that he knew more about what the KSU fan base thought about the Evridge move than I did.
Oh yeah, his shots at what a pathetic football conference the Big XII is were priceless as well.

Beerguy is just one of those guys who likes the sound of his own voice......nothing more. He's a wordier Diggr.

quote:

Once again, Thompson gambled and it didn't work. That's the NFL. You don't get to the big show by playing it safe. I don't blame him for trying, I would have made the same move. What I really blame is 1) the injury bug and 2) Bob Sanders for not being able to adapt and find new ways to bring pressure rather than counting on Monty and Hunter to get to the QB.

I have to think that the gamble also involved who would be available. I know that a lot of people will scoff at the idea that Thompson will sign anyone. but I have to believe it was part of the equasion. You put Haynesworth and/or Peppers on this DL and the whole thing changes.

Do people believe we have to make the run for the Super Bowl with Woodson and Harris as the corners? If so, don't we need to speed this whole thing up, by bringing in a gamechanger like Peppers or Haynesworth? Or do people not think we need to do it with Harris and Woodson, and that we could do it with Williams and Pat Lee, for instance? I think we have to make the move while Harris and Woodson are still playing, which means we need to grab a blue chipper. What do others think?

I don't know if you do it for a certain guy or guys, but what's happening is that TT had to completely rebuild the foundation when he got here. That's why you saw huge drafts and not huge FA splashes. There wasn't much for roster infrastructure here, and whether guys were washed up (many were), the team was up against the cap at the time (which they were) and/or he wanted his own guys in there, the first rebuilding blast of players is, or should be done by now.

We're all seeing the holes that haven't been spackled yet - both lines, obviously, and the necessity to bring the defense to another level with more sophisticated and flat-out better coaching. We'll see what happens this offseason. It's no longer accurate to just say 'we need players' and proceed as he has. It's time to address the weaknesses that four drafts and Woodson/Pickett/Chillar FA signings haven't filled. Given that rookie DLmen rarely come in and play really well, he may need to address that weakness with FA/trades.

Regardless, I just think that the shotgun approach has served its purpose - lots of young, cheap talent, a few keepers in Rodgers, Jennings and Crosby and a very healthy financial situation. It's time for some rifle shots now.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:
But why not hedge the bet, just a little bit, by spending some of the 20 million in cap space on another d-lineman.

The problem with adding another d-lineman, is who do you cut from the original 53 man roster? I believe they kept 9 d-lineman on cut day and had Harrell on IR. That should be enough depth. It came down to the majority of those 10 players not performing up to expectations for whatever reason. You can blame TT for that, but shouldn't we hold the individual players accountable for their shortcomings this year? We've seen all these players perform at a high level for more than a game at a time (even guys like Cole and Montgomery).

quote:

Originally posted by who:
Do people believe we have to make the run for the Super Bowl with Woodson and Harris as the corners? If so, don't we need to speed this whole thing up, by bringing in a gamechanger like Peppers or Haynesworth? Or do people not think we need to do it with Harris and Woodson, and that we could do it with Williams and Pat Lee, for instance? I think we have to make the move while Harris and Woodson are still playing, which means we need to grab a blue chipper. What do others think?

I can't imagine Harris will be around too much longer. I won't be surprised if he asks for a trade in the offseason. However I think Woodson will keep playing a while longer. It seems like, even at what 33(?), he's still in the prime of his career. What's left on his contract, 3 more seasons? And by the time he's done, there will be some other CB that can step up while Tramon is in the prime of his career. There shouldn't be a rush because we have a truck load of talent on both sides of the ball and hopefully they'll all be together for a while.

Throw in a couple FAs here and there and we'll be made in the shade for the future.

quote:

Originally posted by JJSD:
I don't know if you do it for a certain guy or guys, but what's happening is that TT had to completely rebuild the foundation when he got here. That's why you saw huge drafts and not huge FA splashes. There wasn't much for roster infrastructure here, and whether guys were washed up (many were), the team was up against the cap at the time (which they were) and/or he wanted his own guys in there, the first rebuilding blast of players is, or should be done by now.

We're all seeing the holes that haven't been spackled yet - both lines, obviously, and the necessity to bring the defense to another level with more sophisticated and flat-out better coaching. We'll see what happens this offseason. It's no longer accurate to just say 'we need players' and proceed as he has. It's time to address the weaknesses that four drafts and Woodson/Pickett/Chillar FA signings haven't filled. Given that rookie DLmen rarely come in and play really well, he may need to address that weakness with FA/trades.

Regardless, I just think that the shotgun approach has served its purpose - lots of young, cheap talent, a few keepers in Rodgers, Jennings and Crosby and a very healthy financial situation. It's time for some rifle shots now.

Good post, I agree with this to a large extent.
I still don't want to get into the spending just for the sake of spending that some posters would like to see, but yes, it's time to go after some big fish, and shake up the staff some.