2012 Packers Defense. What do you expect?

top 10

Capers is an "every other year" kinda coach

agree.

15 or higher and they take home another Lombardi, assuming the offense stays relatively healthy.

They don't need to be the 2000 Ravens. The offense is historically good. Ted just loaded Dan Comper up with a cavalcade of athletes to stick into holes. You have to figure at least a couple of them make an impact based purely on averages.

They'll be better for sure. They can't get worse.

I expect them to be WAY better in tackling in 2012. Last season this was a bad tackling team.

Coach Perry (coaches the safeties) also said his starting safeties also racked up something ridiculous like 209 tackles. Said when your safeties are racking up that many tackles, bad things on defense are going on.

I don't think GB will have pretty numbers in passing yards allowed only because a lot of their opponents will be throwing. And throwing a lot to keep up with Rodgers and the offense. Opposition may be dumping the run before the game even starts.

This year's draft + Collins could have made them a top 5 defense....but Nick's shoes will be hard to fill. I vote top 15 and that should be good enough. Compers will find a way to get it done.

It's hard to predict, but history shows that it is fairly common for a defense to make a large change year-to-year, better or worse.

top 10. too much talent on that defense for it not to be that good. with a consistent pass rush, our secondary can stick with anybody.

I voted 15th ish. I don't dispute any of the posts above. I agree that the pass rush will cure many woes. I believe that the additions will improve the pass rush. However, there will be some counter balancing because safety play will need to be improved. Unfortunately, you cannot expect it to be at a level when Nick was back there in 2010 even if someone beats out Peprah. Furthermore, I hope and pray that tackling will be better, but to me right now is a pipedream.

What are the chances that the following upgrades come to fruition ?
That will go a long way towards determining the 2012 Defensive performance ( top ten in points given up)


Is Nick Perry an upgrade vs Zombo/ Jones / Walden ?

Will Jerel Worthy / A.Hargrove be an upgrade vs 2011 Wynn, Wilson, Neal ?

Is Casey Hayward/ D.House an upgrade vs Bush / Lee at # 4 CB ?

Will Daniels / Muir be an upgrade vs Howard Green ?

Is McMillian/ Jennings/ Levine an upgrade vs Peprah at SS ?

Will Manning be an upgrade vs Francois, Smith at ILB ?

FYI - based on 2011 numbers:
To earn Top Ten rank in points and yards, the Packers defense needs to give up 2 fewer points per game and 79 fewer yards per game

That's essentially eliminating one FG drive per game - BFD.

That's why I laugh every time some mensa starts parroting:
Worst Defense Evah ! Worst Defense Evah ! Historically Bad Defense !!

I don't think there's a coach on that team shooting for a mid-range finish. After last year's dreadful performance, you can bet to a man from Thompson down they expect to be great. I think Capers wants to atone for manning the helm of the worst defense in the history of the NFL. Thompson didn't draft 6 consecutive defensive players to start the draft (trading up 3 separate times) so the defense can be above average.

I said top 5 and I doubt the Packer management team would disagree.

Somewhere in the range of 10-15. The good news is there's really no place to go but up after the miserable performance of last year.

I expect this defense to get back to more of the basic designs of the 4-3 scheme, improve in every performance measureable, and not hemorrhage yards to the weaker teams. Tackling has to be priority one, IMO, and that will solve a lot of woes that we suffered last year.
I seem to recall reading last year before the abbreviated TC that Capers said (paraphrasing) he was installing the next phase of his designs/scheme. I now wonder if he will try to introduce yet more complexities this year, or try to get the (many) younger guys up to speed. It's likely we could have new starters at DE, OLB, and S, and even guys like Burnett and Neal aren't as experienced as, say, CM3 or Raji in Caper's defense, and I don't want to see them overwhelmed from the get-go.
I liked the context that Satori provided, and I'll add another one:
The Packers defense would have been on par with the Niners in the 'missed tackle' stat if they would have missed 32 less. That's only 2 per game, and that's definitely doable.

They were #1 in ints and tied for turnovers, no?

I think that total yards allowed moves down into the 15-20 range because the offense is so explosive.

The Packers need to move up in QB pressures and sacks this season to be a far better D.

quote:

Originally posted by michiganjoe:
Somewhere in the range of 10-15. The good news is there's really no place to go but up after the miserable performance of last year.

This. It's a potentially strong rookie class, but they'll still be rookies and making some rookie mistakes/developing. The pass rush will be better, but the DBs will still gamble and probably give up some big plays, skewing the numbers a bit.

Range of 10-15. Rookies playing a lot and making mistakes, plus no Collins. In 2013 I want a Top 5 if not Top 2 as the rooks get better. (Of course, by then they'll need more corners, but...)

In the words of former champ Clubber Lang:

"PAIN"

I'm hoping for them to be top 10(8-12 range is fine though). I think they really nailed it with their first 2 defensive picks. Reminding me a lot of 09 with RAji/Matthews. I think Perry and Worthy complement eachother perfectly.

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:

FYI - based on 2011 numbers:
To earn Top Ten rank in points and yards, the Packers defense needs to give up 2 fewer points per game and 79 fewer yards per game

That's essentially eliminating one FG drive per game - BFD.

That's why I laugh every time some mensa starts parroting:
Worst Defense Evah ! Worst Defense Evah ! Historically Bad Defense !!

Me too.

Which means that during the regular season last year 13 teams allowed more points than the alleged "worst defense evah".

Most likely some of the same cast of brainiacs complaining about the running game the year before.

Which we didn't hear a peep about last year, even though last year's team had a lower ranking in rushing than in 2010 (and set a team record in points), and the team that won the title finished even lower in the rushing rankings than us.

And right on cue, here comes our resident comedian...

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
I think Capers wants to atone for manning the helm of the worst defense in the history of the NFL.

Continued use of that stat just screams " I had a successful lobotomy ! "


Go Packers

I will say "better." But that really doesn't say much.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:
Which means that during the regular season last year 13 teams allowed more points than the alleged "worst defense evah".

Most likely some of the same cast of brainiacs complaining about the running game the year before.

The defense was pretty darn bad. Pass rush, pass defense, tackling etc.

In 2010, the running game was pretty darn bad as well. Fortunately they had Starks step up and the passing was well, pretty darn good.

Dem da facts and don't let them get in the way of a fine and dandy narrative.

Jay Cutler: Do you expect me to talk?

Dan Compers: No, Mr. VaJayJay. I expect you to die.

They can't be worse than they were last year....

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Grant:
They can't be worse than they were last year....

They could give up 6,586 yards and 22.5 points per game and go 14-2. Never say never.

Think Satori nailed it. Don't need Perry, Worthy and Daniels to be world beaters. Need them to be upgrades which will help Raji and CM3 be Raji and CM3 again.

Williams and Shields need to be better than 2011 as well. I hope ILB opposite Bishop is open competition from day 1 and the Packers start the guy that deserves to be there.

I still find it shocking that some still make claims/argue that the play of that defense of 2011 was anything other than horrible.

I went with below average which isn't necessarily as horrible as it sounds. Below average might not be so bad considering teams are constantly putting the pedal to the metal trying to keep up with the high scoring Pack.

Their defense was a mix of good and awful last year.

The good - they did take advantage of getting the opposition to commit turnovers. When Pickett was healthy, the run defense was at least decent.

The bad - the pass rush was awful the entire year. Clay Matthews was the only guy who would pressure the QB. Sacks on their own as a stat can be overrated, but it was the combination of sacks, pressures and hurries that were lacking overall. The Pack was very low in pressures and hurries other than Matthews who was outstanding in that area. That is the key to improving, get a couple more guys to help Matthews in pressures and hurries and things will start to look up.

Also bad - secondary tackling. Not one secondary guy tackled well last year. At least T. Williams and Burnett had significant injuries that you could sort of make an excuse for them. But Peprah and Shields really regressed, Woodson started to show some age on the tackling front. They don't have to necessarily be great here, but they really weren't even adequate last year. Just a little improvement here would make a huge difference.

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:
I still find it shocking that some still make claims/argue that the play of that defense of 2011 was anything other than horrible.

I look at it like this, the pass rush and the secondary tackling was legitimately awful. The saving grace of the defense was the secondary really was very good at forcing turnovers and the run defense was not bad when Pickett was healthy. At least the defense had a strength in forcing turnovers, some other really bad ones don't even have that.

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:
And right on cue, here comes our resident comedian...

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
I think Capers wants to atone for manning the helm of the worst defense in the history of the NFL.

Continued use of that stat just screams " I had a successful lobotomy ! "


Go Packers

Listen putz... You can try to prop up last year's performance however it tickles your fancy. The truth is that it is statistically accurate to make the statement. Now I don't think their D was the worst ever, but statistically they were the worst yardage D ever and that has meaning. It is no coincidence that New England, who was right behind at #2, also targeted D early and often, assuredly for the same reason. The statistics were indicative of a problem- a problem that Thompson addressedwith personal and I am sure Capers/McCarthy will address with gameplan.

Ultimately their inability to Play D was instrumental in their defeat in the playoffs. The turnovers certainly were killers, but unlike their Super Bowl run, the D was unable to hold the Giants down and give the O a chance to get the lead. I am expecting a cinsider able shift in that regard this season.

In 2011, the Packers defense was ranked 32nd in yards and 19th in points allowed.

In 2010, the almost same defense was ranked 5th in yards and 2nd in points allowed.

In 2009, the Packers defense was ranked 2nd in yards and 7th in points allowed.

Capers has the ability and hopefully now the players to regain the Packer's position as a top 10 defense.

The drop in the defense from 2010 to 2011 is astounding. I don't think anyone expected such a large drop. Just another reminder that being good one year is no guaranty the team can recapture the same magic, even including the offense. Just because the offense had an incredible season does not mean they can't suddenly drop in production either.

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
Listen putz... The truth is that it is statistically accurate to make the statement. Now I don't think their D was the worst ever, but statistically they were the worst yardage D ever and that has meaning to dum dums like me.

That stat has no meaning unless and until games are decided by yards given up. Until then its just intellectual dishonesty to keep clinging to that idiotic stat.

You and your lobotomy even admit that's the case in your bolded statement- in other words - you know its idiotic, lame and useless but will fight to the death for the right to continue using it. And I'm the putz ?

Guess what ? Somebody else will break your beloved yardage record again this year; such is the modern NFL. Did you note that 3 or 4 QBs broke the 5,000 yard mark last season ? Hasn't happened since 1984, and now we have multiple guys hitting it...

BTW - Did you know that the World Champion NY Giants were number 27 in yards given up ?
Super Bowl was number 27 vs number 31 in yards given up

That's how utterly useless that stat is, but of course you are welcome to continue using it.
Put it in every post, add it to your location, tattoo it on your forehead so it covers the scar

Signed,

The Putz who pwned you

Stats, strawmen, hyperbole, narrative supporting and intellectual dishonesty all aside, I suspect we all agree that the defense sucked last year.

@ Satori

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20135303/originalfgjf.gif

Try, try as I may, this thread is not going to be about me. I'm a failure even on this. I'm going to stop acting like such an idiot now before the consequences get worse. I also smell like feet.

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:
Guess what ? Somebody else will break your beloved yardage record again this year; such is the modern NFL.

Tampa is a strong candidate, as are the Giants IMO. Tampa not only has the NFCS (ATL, NOS, CAR x2) they also play NYG & DAL - all of these teams can and should put up 400+ yds on them. The Giants have their div foes (DAL & PHI) who can put up some yards and go against CAR, ATL, NOS, and GBP. The Giants were 27th last year as you noted and went offense in the draft... PinBall football 2012, here we come.

quote:

the D was unable to hold the Giants down and give the O a chance to get the lead.

hard for the O to get the lead when they kept turning the ball over!

man, i thought that was a pretty good line i had.

quote:

Originally posted by Tdog:

quote:

the D was unable to hold the Giants down and give the O a chance to get the lead.

hard for the O to get the lead when they kept turning the ball over!

Yeah, I'm not seeing where the defense lost that game. 4 turnovers to 1. Not many games are won like that.

quote:

Yeah, I'm not seeing where the defense lost that game.

Well, there was the end of the half.