2021 Special Teams Ranked...Packers finish....

Of note, Tampa is 30th. 49ers 25th,

But WMM spent his money on his sledding hill rather than a competent ST coach.

The sledding hill is built on the bodies of failed special teams coordinators.

A Killing Fields , so to speak.

Softball GB Media won't bring up those rankings to MLF or Mo Drayton but it'd be interesting to hear yet another coach speak n' spin as to why once again they are dead last and full of suck..

Interesting to note that Dallas came in at #6. Guess it wasn't just as simple as Mike McCarthy after all.

Think MLF has more to do with the continuing problems than Mark Murphy does.

@YATittle posted:

But WMM spent his money on his sledding hill rather than a competent ST coach.

All jokes aside, anything justifying not hiring Rizzi was an exercise of stumbling over dollars while chasing after pennies.

There are a handful of great ST coaches in the league...when you have the chance to get one YOU FUCKING SPEND THE MONEY TO GET ONE!!! Bottom line, Ballz and Murphy didn't want to spend $1M a year in salary for Rizzi, so they went and spent probably $500k for Mennenga and Drayton.

I'm sure they will justify it now by saying "well we are the #1 seed, we did just fine," which is a bean counter's mentality. It's also a loser's mentality. The Packers are the most financially sound team in the league. Stick a fucking crowbar in your wallet and get a quality ST coach that at least helps you finish in the top HALF of the league...and watch how much better this team can get.

Please tell me it's David Moore on Saturday and not Rodgers back there...

PLEASE.

The "Rizzi Ship" has sailed.  And TJ Watt is a passenger.  Drone on and on about it, but he's no longer an option.  The HC needs to fix this constant problem this off season.

28. Carolina, 428.5

29. Tampa Bay, 429

30. Cleveland, 443

31. LA Chargers, 444

32. Green Bay, 482.5

Bottom five and it wasn't even close for last place.

A passage from Drayton's resume:

"Lead team to unprecedented special teams ranking"

@michiganjoe posted:

Interesting to note that Dallas came in at #6. Guess it wasn't just as simple as Mike McCarthy after all.

Think MLF has more to do with the continuing problems than Mark Murphy does.

Disagree.

Inadequate STs have been a staple of the Packer organization for over a decade or long before MLF arrived.

Incredibly, when Mac finally got rid of the horrific Slocum after the STs debacle in Seattle in the 2014 NFCC game in Seattle he was allowed to replace him with the possibly even worse Zook.

When MLF wanted Rizzi, the organization refused to go into the red (because it was still paying Mac and his staff after stupidly extending him for a lame duck year after Gutey took over for the long past his prime Ted at GM) and happily went with Mennenga on the cheap.

Rodgers winning 4 MVPs while leading the offense has been the deodorant masking crappy STs (and a mediocre to poor D) for over a decade now.

The irrefutable evidence that the Packer Front office has been more than satisfied to operate this way is found both in the annual STs rankings and in the identities of the coaches the organization has allowed to coordinate this unit ... Slocum, Zook, Mennenga, and now Drayton.

I understand he's a convenient and favorite scapegoat for all sorts of issues but fans need to move on. The theory on Murphy and Rizzi is largely speculation that was never supported by credible reporting anyway.

Dallas ranks 6th likely because MM had nothing to do with that unit and was hands off.

MLF has been there a while.  

Fix it.

@michiganjoe posted:

I understand he's a convenient and favorite scapegoat for all sorts of issues but fans need to move on. The theory on Murphy and Rizzi is largely speculation that was never supported by credible reporting anyway.

https://www.packersnews.com/st...en-rizzi/2619248002/

Just an assistant, would probably come to be "THE" coordinator...

https://www.baltimoreravens.co...s-roster/randy-brown

@Chongo posted:

https://www.packersnews.com/st...en-rizzi/2619248002/

Noticeably missing from the article: the name Mark Murphy. 

@michiganjoe posted:

I understand he's a convenient and favorite scapegoat for all sorts of issues but fans need to move on. The theory on Murphy and Rizzi is largely speculation that was never supported by credible reporting anyway.

Packers lose out on coveted special teams coach Darren Rizzi

Rizzi was the premier special teams coordinator on the market and was intrigued enough in the Packers' job to visit with new coach Matt LaFleur at the team’s facility last week.

But despite what was described as a great visit between the two, the Packers allowed the well-respected coach to leave town without a deal. Given the state of their special teams last year, losing out on the best available coach is a blow to the Packers’ hopes of turning things around quickly.

Packers break talks with Rizzi

@michiganjoe posted:

I understand he's a convenient and favorite scapegoat for all sorts of issues but fans need to move on. The theory on Murphy and Rizzi is largely speculation that was wnever supported by credible reporting anyway.

It is certainly understandable that those who want to defend the Packer Front Office from any and all criticism would feel the need to tell those who dare question the Front Office to "move on" from uncomfortable discussions about the Pack's long-standing abysmal STs.

As for "SPECULATION" regarding the failure to hire Rizzi;

That MLF's first choice to be his original STs coordinator was Darren Rizzi is fact.

That Rizzi was interviewed for the job is fact.

That it has been reported, that "cost was the deal breaker" to hiring Rizzi is fact.

Indeed, even a reliable Front Office mouthpiece like Silverstein, reported that "the price to hire Rizzi is 'a considerable investment" and may have been why things failed to progress."

https://profootballtalk.nbcspo...be-on-packers-staff/

No one but Rizzi and folks at 1265 knows for sure why Rizzi went on the coordinate the Saints STs successfully while Mennenga was hired on the cheap to continue the tradition of all but ignoring STs in Green Bay.

If some Front Office fans want to speculate that Rizzi never wanted to come to cold, small town Green Bay to feel better about the Front Office and to excuse the perpetually awful STs have at it.

As for fans who look at the Pack's undeniable decade + track record of subpar STs play under the tutelage of subpar STs coordinators, the "speculation" that the Front Office was too cheap to meet Rizzi's  seems far more plausible.

@michiganjoe posted:

Noticeably missing from the article: the name Mark Murphy.

Really?  Who handles the money?  You think Goop is responsible for the negotiations with this new shit FO structure?

You actually think Murphy and Ball had no involvement about deciding Rizzi was too expensive?   When they say "The Packers" do you honest think it isn't Murphy and Ball? 

Silverstein and his cupcake reporting using the catchall "The Packers" would be convenient if people were wondering why the coach and GM weren't able to hire who they want to hire.  Do you think the two actual football guys were like "hmm, nope, too expensive". 

Christ.

The Rizzi ship has sailed, this isn't about the Packers going out and getting Rizzi, it's about going forward, the people that control the money need to show as big of a commitment to hiring a ST coach as they do to building strip malls.

It's a small ask given the product on the field is the real money maker, not the snow hill.

Exactly CHONGO!

@michiganjoe posted:

Interesting to note that Dallas came in at #6. Guess it wasn't just as simple as Mike McCarthy after all.

Think MLF has more to do with the continuing problems than Mark Murphy does.

Not initially, but after the Mo hiring, yes.

The fact the city of Green Bay, WI is even on the NFL map, the product on the field should be #1 through #10 priority. 

I'm all for hot sledding and other projects that help build the Packers financial stability.  It's necessary.

It almost seems like there should be one organizational structure for off the field endeavors and another organizational structure being committed to winning Super Bowls.

@packerboi posted:

Please tell me it's David Moore on Saturday and not Rodgers back there...

PLEASE.

Or Cobb

The irony is, should the Packers win the SB with the worst ST's in the league, it will confirm to Murphy that the Packers didn't need to spend the money on a high priced ST coach to win it all.

Tampa ST's sucks, and I am guessing it sucked last year as well. Another example the Packers FO will use to say you don't need to give this unit a high priced coach or pay big money to players to win a ring.

Do I agree with that? No. But that's probably a reality they will point to.   

Sad but true, but Rodgers makes a lot possible, as do mid-season pickups who play like Rasul Douglas.

@packerboi posted:

Do I agree with that? No. But that's probably a reality they will point to.   

Having a HOF MVP QB is great deodorant

@packerboi posted:

The irony is, should the Packers win the SB with the worst ST's in the league, it will confirm to Murphy that the Packers didn't need to spend the money on a high priced ST coach to win it all.

Tampa ST's sucks, and I am guessing it sucked last year as well. Another example the Packers FO will use to say you don't need to give this unit a high priced coach or pay big money to players to win a ring.

Do I agree with that? No. But that's probably a reality they will point to.   

The reality is ST has to be competent enough to say, not eliminate your team from a trip to the Super Bowl.  It doesn't have to be great, just competent.

Those rankings for things like return yard, is there a category for dumbfucker not staying in his lane?  Or returner so bad it's a 50/50 proposition he'll catch the ball?  Or is the returner smart enough to not run out of the endzone and fumble?

That's what we're really talking about here.  Having an awesome ST is like having the whip cream, nuts and cherry on top.  I'd be happy if the Packers had a guy that could peel the fucking banana.

@Chongo posted:

Having a HOF MVP QB is great deodorant

Rodgerant.

@michiganjoe posted:

Noticeably missing from the article: the name Mark Murphy.

Nor comments/quotes from Rizzi's camp. Seems like an outside of 1265 view of what happened. Not one "quote" in the entire article.

But despite what was described as a great visit between the two, the Packers allowed the well-respected coach to leave town without a deal.

Who described the visit? No reference to "an NFL source" or "someone with knowledge  or  close to the discussions"... maybe Silverstein got his info from x4?

It is believed Rizzi’s price was high, so a team would have to make a considerable investment to lure him.

Again, believed by who? Whom?

That it has been reported, that "cost was the deal breaker" to hiring Rizzi is fact.

Yes, it is a fact that it was "reported", but no refernce that I could find to even an unnamed source or the aforementioned "someone with knowledge" link.

@packerboi posted:

The irony is, should the Packers win the SB with the worst ST's in the league, it will confirm to Murphy that the Packers didn't need to spend the money on a high priced ST coach to win it all.

That must have been Murph and the Front Office's thoughts in 2014 as well when they allowed Slocum to coordinate the pathetic STs unit that gave up a fake field goal and the Bostick onside kick in the NFCC game in Seattle.

Murph and the boys were so close to being vindicated on their theory that $ should be scrimped on STs because they just don't matter to SB teams that it is only natural that they have continued that philosophy through through the present date.

@packerboi posted:

Dallas ranks 6th likely because MM had nothing to do with that unit and was hands off.

And what did the 6th place get them,  the only home team to lose in the wild card round.

Pack currently have 52 on the active roster.   If you bring up Cobb, Mercilus and Z that means two  more have to be reassigned or cut.  Maybe MVS if he can't even practice and Yiadom.   If you want to add depth for DL in Anderson and/or McIntosh that means 1 or 2  more have to go. Galeai and Garvin?  Add Moore to the equation and another has to go.

22 starters and 3 core special teamers (Wirtel, Bojo , Crosby)  leaves 28 to pick from for special teams.   Even at that rate there are about 5-7 guys that will never be on special teams.  Thats not many to pick from.  It means it is the old adage, good depth at premium positions or outstanding special teamers for mostly the return units.   Almost anybody can block for FG or PAT. Sometimes a coach and GM just can't win.

It's easy to slam coaching, but it is more often players, assignment, or scheme. We heard from MiLF after the DET game about how players (on D)  got outside the scheme/assignment on the big gainers.

Watching the Packers STs, the fuck ups are often from bad angles and over pursuit - at least that's what it looks like. If their scheme sucks, that's on Drayton and LaFleur.

Do your job.

Chicken or the egg?  are the bad angles and over pursuit poor coaching, or poor execution?  The coaches should be able to drill those bad habits out of the players.

What other coaches should the Packers “break the bank” for?  Maybe they should pay all of their assistants top tier money.

I think something people often forget is the Packers don’t have a singular owner / ownership group worth hundreds of million/billion dollars to draw from.  The Packers have to budget their cash differently than every other professional sports team.  I think the reason the did another stock sale was to generate cash knowing an AR extension will cost a lot of cash now. I know the stock sale proceeds are for infrastructure, but the couple 100 million generated for infrastructure means other “cash on hand” doesn’t need to be used for infrastructure.

They have a limited pot of cash to draw from each year.  Can’t meet every player or coaches demands.

I would chip in 20 bucks to hire a good special teams coordinator.

I've read that contract length, the money itself and other factors completely (primarily proximity to Miami) were the reason Rizzi didn't end up in Green Bay. Larger point is really the statue of limitations on attempting to blame Mark Murphy for the poor special teams expired long ago.