@YooperPackfan posted:And they held the Raiders to less than 20 points and under 300 yards. Was the defense really the problem tonight?
The Defense was Hideous overall and the offense was Hideous outside of the OL and Dillon
@MichiganPacker posted:Disagree.
You can find guys like Doubs on practice squads.
Musgrave hasn't shown much other than that he can't track the ball in the air at all. His value is limited as well right now because he's a terrible blocker.
Watson is a MVS/Corey Bradford type. Track speed, but very green and may never get much better. We can hope he'll be a Donald Driver type and put professional WR routes and discipline with that athleticism, but I'm not holding my breath.
I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with. You can’t just start over wholesale. They’ve done SOME good things to warrant staying, but they don’t need to be your key guys is my point. They need to learn from vets how to be key guys. Watson especially. Doubs seems to get it more than others, Musgrave has a bright future, he’s just overwhelmed by the bright lights right now.
@hntr74 posted:No disagreement..
But Love is the least of my concerns.
Too early to quit on him.
@Grave Digger posted:Only gave up 17, I really don’t see that as an issue at all. If your defense gives up <20 you should easily be able to a win. That’s a gift.
I don’t disagree at all. The game was there with many opportunities. Just thinking how maybe a player or 2 on O over those years could have helped with the product we are seeing.
The offense had no rhythm. 2 left feet, flat. It was like Matt LaFleur blindly rinsed the same plays from last yr this game. Just zero vibe tonight with his offense.
@Iowacheese posted:I don’t disagree at all. The game was there with many opportunities. Just thinking how maybe a player or 2 on O over those years could have helped with the product we are seeing.
Im mostly peeved about the premium draft capital we have spent in the defensive backfield for the little return we have gotten. That’s s piss poor drafting no matter who has made the picks
@MichiganPacker posted:Love was absolutely terrible tonight. Yes, the WRs dropped some balls, but Love played like the guy who a lot of scouts thought he was tonight.
That last throw was as bad as it gets. Underthrow a guy by 5 yards?
The interception that could have been intercepted by 3 different Raiders when he wasn't being pressured at all.
He was beyond awful tonight. The Musgrave throw/drop was off target.
That ball never has to be thrown if those two balls aren't dropped. 1st and 10 at the 15 is a lot different to defend than 3rd and 10 from the 35. Granted the ball was underthrown but Watson didn't nothing to break it up. Watson had a terrible night as well. The 2nd INT was such a lame route that Peters beat him to the spot. He also cost the Packers 4 critical points by not outrunning a 50 year old CB.
The Musgrove ball was very catchable and should have been caught. The announcers appropriately called both balls drops.
All warts aside. The game experience really really Misses Jones and Bahk.
@MichiganPacker posted:He's the 2020s version of Norv Turner.
As much as I dislike Rodgers, AR made MLF a lot of money.
You are giving Lafluer too much credit
@Iowacheese posted:I don’t disagree at all. The game was there with many opportunities. Just thinking how maybe a player or 2 on O over those years could have helped with the product we are seeing.
To be fair I see a R1 pick in Love, R2 picks in Jenkins, Myers, Watson, Dillon, Musgrave and Reed and R3 picks in Kraft and Deguara. I agree with you overall, but it’s not no investment…couple misses for sure. It was always easier, I think, to draft R2 WR and R1 Tackles frequently when you had Clay Matthews, Charles Woodson and Nick Collins on D. Feels like you need to keep throwing resources at the problem until you solve it…unless you’re not really looking at the problem.
@ZUF posted:Love was not good tonight. Late on that last pass
First and goal at the 3 also a failure.
First and goal at the 3 was a Love failure? Who do you think called those run plays up the gut?
@Grave Digger posted:To be fair I see a R1 pick in Love, R2 picks in Jenkins, Myers, Watson, Dillon, Musgrave and Reed and R3 picks in Kraft and Deguara. I agree with you overall, but it’s not no investment…
You forgot 3rd rounders Sternberger & Rhyan.
Perhaps the issue is not the amount of round 1-3 draft investment on the offensive side of the ball, but rather that the investments have not paid off or at least not paid off as yet.
@Boris posted:6-11??
After this game it feels like I might actually lose the win total bet this year. A bet I consistently win.
They just lost to the Raiders. Who on the remaining schedule are they going to beat? Denver? I fully expect Wilson to revert back to his younger version and run circles around Barry’s D.
@Goalline posted:There are going to be teams this year who play their worst game and still beat the Raiders. That’s how bad the Raiders are. Yet, we didn’t look like we belonged against them.
Here's the thing....you cannot turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win against even the worst team in the league.
Raiders actually played about how I expected. Scored how many points I thought they could.
Didn't expect that shitty offensive display we saw from the Packers last night. O/U was 45 - I bet the Under😁
Thru first 5 games....Raiders have scored
17 / 10 / 18 / 17 / 17. I'm seeing shitty consistency lol
Raiders were very very excited after that win because I know (and they know) the Packers are the better team. Better team doesn't always win. When you make mental errors with penalties and turnovers you lose in the NFL, it's that simple.
The pack gets 2 weeks to think about that loss then come out and improve after the bye....or not 🤷♂️
If we don't see any improvement throughout the year, MLF has to go (and take your Bullshit DC with you) because it'll be quite obvious AR12 has carried him.
As poorly as the Packers played they would have won except one play beat them. When Watson didn't score on the horsecollar play it cost hem 4 points. They would have been playing for a FG on the last drive instead of throwing desperation passes into the endzone.
@Boris posted:Here's the thing....you cannot turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win against even the worst team in the league.
Raiders actually played about how I expected. Scored how many points I thought they could.
Didn't expect that shitty offensive display we saw from the Packers last night. O/U was 45 - I bet the Under😁
Thru first 5 games....Raiders have scored
17 / 10 / 18 / 17 / 17. I'm seeing shitty consistency lol
Raiders were very very excited after that win because I know (and they know) the Packers are the better team. Better team doesn't always win. When you make mental errors with penalties and turnovers you lose in the NFL, it's that simple.
The pack gets 2 weeks to think about that loss then come out and improve after the bye....or not 🤷♂️
If we don't see any improvement throughout the year, MLF has to go (and take your Bullshit DC with you) because it'll be quite obvious AR12 has carried him.
The performance of the coaching staff was just horrendous. Yeah, the defense gave up 17 points. That was against one of the worst offenses in the league. Nothing I saw yesterday made me optimistic about a future with this staff.
Definitely the coaching. The Raiders have 2 prominent players and the Packers got caught in mismatches with both, Crosby on several occasions.
@PackerRick posted:Definitely the coaching. The Raiders have 2 prominent players and the Packers got caught in mismatches with both, Crosby on several occasions.
It was inexcusable. At one time Crosby was one on one with one of our TEs. The ones who cannot block. And should I mention Preston with man coverage on Adams?
@PackerRick posted:As poorly as the Packers played they would have won except one play beat them. When Watson didn't score on the horsecollar play it cost hem 4 points. They would have been playing for a FG on the last drive instead of throwing desperation passes into the endzone.
"desperation passes"
There was about a min on the clock, we had a timeout, and it was 3rd down. That wasn't a desperation heave, at least, it should not have been.
@PackerRick posted:When Watson didn't score on the horsecollar play it cost hem 4 points.
Credit to you sir, I missed this post earlier and posted something similar late last night.
Smart.play by Peters and the reason the Raiders win.
Yup. There was some chatter that the owners have talked about plays just like that. Everything from put the ball at the 1 yd line to an automatic TD. I just don't see the owners doing anything about it. It was a smart play, but in other sports, it's a greater penalty than it is in the NFL. Soccer, take a guy down on an obvious play like that and it's a penalty kick and an automatic red card, so your team plays down a player for the rest of the game. In the NBA, a foul like that gets you not only free throws, but if it's egregious, the offender is out of the game. In baseball, it's obstruction and the ump can award a base and/or allow the run to score. In hockey, it's a penalty shot or a penalty where the other team plays down for two minutes; if the goalie is way out of position or off the ice, then the ref can stop the game and award the goal.
I can see if the NFL did something like, if it happens inside the 15-yard-line the ball is placed at the 1 yard line. If it's outside that, even at the 16, it's a 15-yard penalty. If it's an egregious foul, the player may be ejected. (Peters' was deliberate and could have ended in disaster for Watson.) It's such a dangerous foul, and I'm glad Watson didn't get hurt.