2023 Packers OL

Pressures allowed by Packers offensive linemen vs. Lions, via @PFF

Zach Tom: 6
Royce Newman: 5
Jon Runyan: 5
Rasheed Walker: 4
Josh Myers: 2
Total: 22

Jordan Love under pressure on 47.6 percent of dropback

— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) September 29, 2023

Finesse line just couldn't cut it last night.

D&D hasn't exactly panned out under Gutey

@Chongo posted:

D&D hasn't exactly panned out under Gutey

I think Gute found a gem in Tom. Walker will probably be better at LT once Jenkins returns to help him out. Myers is just OK. Nothing more. Against a quality DL, he's not good enough.

Newman is hot garbage. JRJ is also OK. Against a quality DL, he isn't quite as bad as Myers but the Packers could do better.

MLF has got to implement bubble screens, roll outs, delayed hand offs etc to get this pressure off of Love.

How in the hell he didn't do any of that, especially with Jones in the game, is beyond me. It's inexcusable.

I'll paste here from another thread.

Just 24hr ago we were all smelling the OL's farts and thinking about the embarrassment of riches we had there.  Bahktiari can sit and let Walker play!  Gute found another gem in the RD7!  OL leading the league in pass blocking efficiency!

And now it's all garbage?  I don't know.  DET DL was clearly their toughest test so far but the difference between them and NO's DL can't be that great.  Hard to fault not running the ball more when nobody can block.

DET's OL has 3 RD1 picks on it.  Not an accident they're one of the best in the league.

The deficiencies on our OL should be no surprise to anyone.  What kind of draft capital has been spent there?  Jenkins is the highest pick and what do you know, he's elite.  Tom is looking good too but when you continually spend all your high picks on D, that is going to eventually catch up with you on offense.  AR covered a lot of those deficiencies but they're all in the open now.  Gute finally loads up on pass catchers and voila!, looks like there is finally some talent to develop.

This teams desperately needs to see an infusion of OL talent next spring.  OL, S, run D-DL, RB.

For a guy who is in his 5th year, MLF sure makes a lot of rookie coaching mistakes. Maybe it's time he gives up play-calling and focuses more on being the CEO of the team.

I think whoever suggested having AR at QB may have stunted his growth as a HC/playcaller may be on to something.

Walker is playing better than his 7th-round status. He needs more time and more strength, but I'm encouraged and hope he'll grow into the role. I'm willing to give Tom some leeway since he had a knee that's a little gimpy. I'm just happy he played. As for the others, Newman spent more time going backward than forward and plays like a high school guard. Meyer has hit the ceiling. He'd be a nice backup. JRJ would be a nice backup.

The playcalls sucked. Like I said last night, where were the quick-hitters? The WR screens? Slants? Jet sweeps? etc., Anything to try to either get rid of it quickly or make the D go side to side so the OL didn't have to hold their blocks for more than a beat? Didn't he watch the Det-Atl tape? After the first series or the second at the latest, he should have had a read on what was happening and changed the plan. But he stuck to trying to get Love killed.

Chongo has something in that MLF needs to find a playcaller who can be upstairs. I tend to think it's always better for the OC and DC to be upstairs calling plays and let the HC worry about motivation, clock, TOs, reviews, etc.

Psst.....Goldieboi.... 🤭

https://packers.timesfour.com/...c/715719812712126455

and there goes no one watching the game……NFL network is showing it at 2:00 today.  😡 😡 😡

What game?😁

Yes, that's a great time for everybody to leave work early and go home to watch a replay of last night's game.

@packerboi posted:

MLF has got to implement bubble screens, roll outs, delayed hand offs etc to get this pressure off of Love.

How in the hell he didn't do any of that, especially with Jones in the game, is beyond me. It's inexcusable.

I totally agree with what you posted.  One tried and true thing in football is that when the pass rush and DL is getting home so quickly you have to find things to use their aggressiveness against them.  Quick slants, screens, quick hit passes, roll outs, draws, etc. is what they should have been doing.  Calling plays that take long to develop is playing right in to their hands and making it too easy for them.

Yes the OL is playing like dog shit right now but the play calling and the defense are also not doing them any favors as well.  When your defense is as usual getting gashed so now you have to throw most of the time and the opposing defense will only have to pin their ears back and pass rush.

@Boris posted:

Psst.....Goldieboi.... 🤭

https://packers.timesfour.com/...c/715719812712126455

Whooops.

Didn't see that one. And of course, we cannot fork into a existing topic. Do better CrowdStack. Anyway, the above thread had just a couple of responses. This one got going. Closed the above thread, we'll move forward with this one.

Volume up. Oooof.

The Royce Newman experience pic.twitter.com/ECqlBKiN1g

— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) September 29, 2023

Neumann needs to check his urine thermostat.

@packerboi posted:

@JacobMorley

Watching some of the game back Rasheed was actually fine (for the most part) When you are extending the arc, the hope is your QB can step up... both Sheed and Tom did a nice job of this. But when your QB is having to get an extra 5 yards of depth because your IOL is in his lap... That's a tough way to live.

Spot on..  Inside pressure is the worst.   It fucks everything up.   QB can’t step into throws, QB can’t step and through to escape, the angels for the DE to get home widen, and the QB can’t see the field.  

@packerboi posted:

@JacobMorley

Watching some of the game back Rasheed was actually fine (for the most part) When you are extending the arc, the hope is your QB can step up... both Sheed and Tom did a nice job of this. But when your QB is having to get an extra 5 yards of depth because your IOL is in his lap... That's a tough way to live.

"fine" is pretty generous, imo.

He doesn't seem to have the foot speed/agility to match up with top end guys, though maybe he's a bit tentative which gives that impression. Maybe he has enough to play the right side, but these days you need a guy at both spots who can move.

There appear to be three potential top OTs coming out: Olu Fashanu (replaced Walker at Penn State), Joe Alt (ND) and JC Latham (Bama).

There are a bunch of potentially other good ones too. Amarius Mims from Georgia is a physical freak and I feel a better prodpect than Broderick Jones was, KIngsley Suamataia from BYU might be a LT candidate (he's built kind of like Bakhtiari), both the Orgeon State guys (Gray has and Fuaga might have LT skills) and maybe even Jack Nelson from the Badgers.

Rodgers getting hurt was potentially a major blow as the second #1 could have been very beneficial to rebuilding the line.

If they plan on keeping Jenkins at OG, I'd like to see them put Tom at Center, let Myers compete for an OG spot in his final contract year, and draft two OTs high. Put some good resources in to the position.

Tom, Jenkins and maybe Myers at RG then could shore up the line into a very good unit quickly. Walker beomes the new exterior swing, Runyan and Nijman likely walk, and counting on Rhyan seems a foolish endeavor at this point.

Another Kingsley on the Packers?

Although, this guy might be a bit old:

Hot piss tho!

@Herschel posted:

"fine" is pretty generous, imo.

Disagree - we've seen him play well before. The entire line was hot garbage vs. The Lie-downs. They have bigger problems inside than the 7th rounder who is already out playing his draft position.

@Herschel posted:

Rodgers getting hurt was potentially a major blow as the second #1 could have been very beneficial to rebuilding the line.

You can find ELITE OT's from rounds 1-7. 2nd round is dramatically underrated for acquiring good football players at any position.

Let's just keep hoping the Jets continue to lose.

We'll get a top of the 2nd round selection and maybe even a new DC out of the deal (Saleh)

@DH13 posted:

I'll paste here from another thread.

Just 24hr ago we were all smelling the OL's farts and thinking about the embarrassment of riches we had there.  Bahktiari can sit and let Walker play!  Gute found another gem in the RD7!  OL leading the league in pass blocking efficiency!

And now it's all garbage?  I don't know.  DET DL was clearly their toughest test so far but the difference between them and NO's DL can't be that great.  Hard to fault not running the ball more when nobody can block.

DET's OL has 3 RD1 picks on it.  Not an accident they're one of the best in the league.

The deficiencies on our OL should be no surprise to anyone.  What kind of draft capital has been spent there?  Jenkins is the highest pick and what do you know, he's elite.  Tom is looking good too but when you continually spend all your high picks on D, that is going to eventually catch up with you on offense.  AR covered a lot of those deficiencies but they're all in the open now.  Gute finally loads up on pass catchers and voila!, looks like there is finally some talent to develop.

This teams desperately needs to see an infusion of OL talent next spring.  OL, S, run D-DL, RB.

TimesFour and knee-jerk reactions after losses (and wins). Who'da thunk?

You must be new here.  Knee jerk reactions are after every play

@Boris posted:

You can find ELITE OT's from rounds 1-7. 2nd round is dramatically underrated for acquiring good football players at any position.

The best and toughest (especially left) tackles are mostly from Round 1.

Lane Johnson

Trent Williams

Ronnie Stanley

Laremy Tunsil

Penei Sewell

Rashawn Slater

Andrew Thomas

Evan Neal

Tristan Wirfs

Ryan Ramczyk

Kolton Miller

Tyron Smith

Mike McGlinchey

Taylor Decker

Kaleb McGary

Jake Matthews

Trevor Penning

OT has generally had the lowest bust rate in round 1, as well, though there were a couple of down years.

@Herschel posted:

The best and toughest (especially left) tackles are mostly from Round 1.

Lane Johnson

Trent Williams

Ronnie Stanley

Laremy Tunsil

Penei Sewell

Rashawn Slater

Andrew Thomas

Evan Neal

Tristan Wirfs

Ryan Ramczyk

Kolton Miller

Tyron Smith

Mike McGlinchey

Taylor Decker

Kaleb McGary

Jake Matthews

Trevor Penning

OT has generally had the lowest bust rate in round 1, as well, though there were a couple of down years.

Bahk is an anomaly. Apparently, Gute did the bulk of the scouting on Bahk and was the one recommending that they draft him. Hoping he doesn’t get fixated on repeating that.

All LT's have to be 1st round picks. Every thing else is just a fluke.

@GBFanForLife posted:

All LT's have to be 1st round picks. Every thing else is just a fluke.

Tony Mandarich disagrees

It's amazing how much the OL has regressed over the last couple of years.

Most of these same guys were playing in 2021, and played well that season.
Then came the game vs the 49ers, the rush to get injured players back... and it's been a shit show since.
There's a myriad of reasons why; injuries have been costly, the coaching changes, and a fairly constant shuffling of players/positions are a few.

Going into this season, it seemed we had an embarrassment of riches on the OL, and the Packers were going to lose some good players at the cut down. We should've had quality starters and depth.
Of course, it's been anything but.

The coaches say they are going to have the best 5 players starting on the OL, but if Newman is one of the best 5, they are in serious trouble.

Without 69 and 74, our OL is just an "embarrassment."

Tom has shown some promise...Wallace has shown some promise. Tom more than Wallace. Myers is as good as he's every going to be. He is not as good as his predecessors.

JRJ is a career backup, thrust into a starting role.

Newman is a practice squad quality guy being asked to start.

It's not just lack of coaching, it's lack of tallant that makes this line suspect. You could put Mike Munchak in charge of this unit, and not sure you'd get a much better result.

The 49ers take OL very seriously...that's how you turn Raheem Mostert into an All Pro, and Christian McCaffrey into a future HOFer.

Shanahan gets that. His old man got that. MLF was absent from class that day OC school apparently.

McCaffery was good before he got there.

74 is the big heavy that sets the tone for that group. Besides being the guy who sets the physical tone on offense, if he gets in there Wallace has a chance to settle and use his physical tools while EJ takes some of the mental load off of him. It's a mad scramble right now.

@Chongo posted:

The 49ers take OL very seriously...that's how you turn Raheem Mostert into an All Pro, and Christian McCaffrey into a future HOFer.

Shanahan gets that. His old man got that. MLF was absent from class that day OC school apparently.

I think as fans we have a tendency to look at the best in the league and wonder why can't we be like that, but how would we feel if we admitted the 2018 #9 overall pick in the draft wasn't worth a second contract and allowed him to sign with another team this offseason? The 49ers did that with 2018 #9 overall first round tackle Mike McGlinchey.

In  April 2020 the 49ers traded a 3rd and 5th to the Washington Football Team for disgruntled left tackle Trent Williams. Is that a move the Packers should have been in on? It sure seems like it now but at the time David Bakhtiari was a 28 year old stud who only missed 6 of 112 possible starts in the first 7 years of his career. 8 months later his knee would get injured and turn into a pile of trash nightmare that would haunt him right up until tonight.

It's hard to get the offensive line right and if you lose your draughts horses it goes south quick and there are zero solutions. There's only so much draft capital and only so many roster spots. If the depth in April is gone in September you may very well be f****d and treading water just to remain competitive.

In April there might have been 5 teams in the league that wouldn't want to swap their entire Oline with us. Our Oline is a mash unit right now. Sometimes you can't fix f****d.

Denver just gave McGlinchey $52m guaranteed and have already nicknamed him McFlinchey with all his false starts.  Orlando Franklin is on the air in Denver and coached OL in San Fran in 2022.  He warned Denver about McGlinchey - good run blocker, terrible pass blocker. 

Obviously there are busts and late rounder who succeed.  But hard to look at the best OTs in the league and not see a pattern that they are early round draft picks. 

Meyers has been a disappointment, may turn out to be adequate if surrounded by good players, but the turds to the left and right of him make them look like the three stooges.  Watching the film reviews of the Lions game, it was apparent the inability to block anyone up the middle was one of the key issues.  The tackles were dropping deep widening the arc which was understandable given the circumstances, but there were guys in Love's face up the middle the whole first half.  The number of times a guys came through with barely any contact shocked me.

Myers sucked even with Jenkins lined up next to him. We need to rebuild the middle of the OL.

@Goalline posted:

Myers sucked even with Jenkins lined up next to him. We need to rebuild the middle of the OL.

Myers should be playing G, not C. Many have pointed this out, the Packers continue to try to put a square into a round hole.

Walker will play better once Jenkins returns. I think Tom has the potential to be a fine T. He is a clearly talented player.

Newman needs to be demoted to 3rd string.

And interior OL positions and depending where GB picks in the draft, LT may be a priority as well in the 2024 draft.

@packerboi posted:

Myers should be playing G, not C. Many have pointed this out, the Packers continue to try to put a square into a round hole.

I have heard this before.  Is there any reason people think this?

Scouting report..

At 6-foot-5, Myers is unusually tall for a center. Jim Nagy, the executive director of the Senior Bowl, said Myers could play guard, too. The Packers haven’t committed to Myers playing either position, with coach Matt LaFleur saying only that he’d start his best five linemen.

“Depending on your scheme, some teams might look for a little more of a quicker, mobile athlete at that position,” Nagy said. “But he is big and strong enough to play guard. Sometimes, those smaller, more mobile guys are center only. With Josh, because of his size and his strength, he can play both. He’s a big, strong sucker, and sometimes those guys end up better at guard.”

Packers scouting dept gets a little too caught up in metrics on OL. That was the rumor as to why they chose Myers over Creed Humphrey.