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Jose Quintana in three starts this season vs. #Brewers: 0.95. Jose Quintana in 19 starts against everyone else: 4.90 ERA.

— Tom (@Haudricourt) August 14, 2018

"Rally Killers by Braun today. Why couldn't he have hit doubles?"

- Jeff Francoeur

Eric Kratz, master pitch framer

Man it's gonna be a dickpunch when they lose this one.

Braun sure loves hitting against the Cubs...

So does Kratz

Music City posted:

Braun sure loves hitting against the Cubs...

It is entirely his own doing, but Braun's career has turned into a joyless march to retirement when it could have been celebrated as the third best position player ever to play for the Brewers (Molitor and Yount). He's their all-time leader in home runs by 65, 2nd in RBIs (Yount), third in stolen bases (Molitor and Yount), 4th in games (Molitor, Yount, Gantner), and 4th in hits (Molitor, Yount, Cooper).

Braun has also played in 15 playoff games has a 1.060 OPS in those games (if he plays in 3 more post-season games he's the all time leader there too).

It will be interesting to see how we remember him in 15 years. Unfortunately, I think it will be as an embarrassment (not so much for taking the PEDs, but for impugning the integrity of the guy who has to pick up his positive PED sample).

I don't hate the guy, it's just tough to see Braun become such an ordinary player after having been a great one.  That said, today he certainly looked like his old self, but those days are much fewer than they used to be.

I agree, he'll never really be as well embraced as a player as some other guys. I don't think he's a terrible guy, but he isn't a great guy either.  To his credit, I think he's been humbled at least a little bit, but I think the damage he did to his reputation was so great that in the minds of most he can never be totally forgiven.

From what I've heard, he's done well in terms of mentoring younger guys, and he is better interacting with fans in general than he once was.  So at least he's trying to redeem himself after "hitting bottom".

Braun needs the NL DH like the desert needs the rain

Braun is a lying piece of schyt.

I cheer for the uniform.

Blair Kiel posted:

Braun is a lying piece of schyt.

I cheer for the uniform.

Yup, if he would have owned up right away I think he would have been  seen more favorably.

Pikes Peak posted:

Blair Kiel posted:

Braun is a lying piece of schyt.

I cheer for the uniform.

Yup, if he would have owned up right away I think he would have been  seen more favorably.

I agree. If he'd have just said, yeah, I took PEDs so I could be available more often and play in as many games as possible I think he'd have been forgiven (a lot like Andy Pettite). After all, one of the criticisms of him now is that he misses too many games with nagging injuries. 

Braun's stats career stats right now are basically where Paul Molitor was at the end of his Brewer career with a lot more power (and Molitor was a full time DH his last two years in Milwaukee). He's a great hitter who is going to fade away like guys are supposed to (Ken Griffey Jr. is a great example). 

I loved Molitor as a player, but I've often wondered how a guy who missed large parts of 6 of his 15 years in Milwaukee, plays 6 relatively injury-free years from age 36 to 41 in Toronto and Minnesota from 1993-1998 (during the beginning of the steroid era). 

Yount, who was almost never injured, was done as an elite player (or even above average player) at 34 and never hit about .264 his last 4 years. 

MichiganPacker2 posted:

I loved Molitor as a player, but I've often wondered how a guy who missed large parts of 6 of his 15 years in Milwaukee, plays 6 relatively injury-free years from age 36 to 41 in Toronto and Minnesota from 1993-1998 (during the beginning of the steroid era).  

You know exactly why. 

You people think Braun could have overtaken Rickie Weeks at #3 on Brewers Mt. Rushmore?  

CAPackFan95 posted:

MichiganPacker2 posted:

I loved Molitor as a player, but I've often wondered how a guy who missed large parts of 6 of his 15 years in Milwaukee, plays 6 relatively injury-free years from age 36 to 41 in Toronto and Minnesota from 1993-1998 (during the beginning of the steroid era).  

You know exactly why. 

Yes, I know. And it got him into the Hall of Fame. 15 years and 2200 hits (his Brewer career) don't get him in. 

El-Ka-Bong posted:

You people think Braun could have overtaken Rickie Weeks at #3 on Brewers Mt. Rushmore?  

#4 is Sogard.

Hateful

Who is/are the Brewers Mt Rushmore?

Yount, Molly and...

Great one Pikes,....

Cooper? Thomas?

Would braun have been anybody's warm fuzzy even without the ped thing? Not really for me. Has always been a bit robotic to me. Crew mt. Rushmore? Robin, molly, uecker and prince.

So far...

Moore? Oglive?

Gorman?  Bud?  Bambi and Harvey Kuehn were as polular as any Brewers back in the day.  

#4 is super debatable. I choose Prince because he was the face (imo) of that club. Kind of a badass. Of course coop and Gorman fit the bill but i am going with fielder.

El-Ka-Bong posted:

You people think Braun could have overtaken Rickie Weeks at #3 on Brewers Mt. Rushmore?  

It's not a very competitive list. Who is even on a Brewers Mt. Rushmore if you just put guys on that played the majority of their careers as Brewers. Yount, Molitor, Cooper, and Braun. If you go by wins above replacement (WAR), that's your Mt. Rushmore. WAR actually works really well as a relatively unbiased assessment of players value. 

Here's the position player WAR leaders for guys as Brewers all-time (baseballreference.com). For perspective, Mike Trout has two different seasons of 10.5 WAR. 

Prince Fielder was such a horrendous defensive player that he only accumulated 16.8 WAR in his 7 year Brewer career (and managed to be a negative player one year in which he hit 28 home runs). Corey Hart was 15.4 WAR for his 9 seasons in Milwaukee. Rickie Weeks was 12.5 WAR total for 11 seasons. 

Their all-time pitching WAR leaders are even more embarrassing. For perspective, peak Pedro Martinez had a WAR of 11.7 in 2000. Ben Sheets was a guy you really feel sorry for. He had a season of 7.2 WAR in which the team was so awful he only went 12-14 with 8 no decisions. 

Only two guys who played the majority (or even a third) of their careers as Brewers are in (Yount and Molitor). Fingers, Sutton, Trevor Hoffman, and obviously Aaron played a cumulative total of 10 years and aren't primary guys. Two guys inducted as Brewers. The only other pretty sure bet to get in that played for them is Sabathia (and that was half a season). Greinke - probably not. Nelson Cruz - very productive but not a full time player until he was 28 (and he played 8 games as a Brewer)

All the talent that came up in the late 2000s and very few of them would even get a vote of the HOF. It looked for all the world that Fielder and Braun were future HOFers and neither will get in. 

They've only had 6 guys in almost 50 years that have ever played for the Brewers make the HOF. Bottom line -other than the 1978-1982 guys, they haven't had very good players. 

Blair Kiel posted:

Moore?

I liked Chuck as much as the next guy but...

Yount, Molitor, Weeks and Deer.  

It was built by Russell Branyan

Derail alert...

Dan Plesac, All-Time Saves Leader? 

And an awesome baseball commentator! 

I put Gantner on there just because of the way he stood up to Joachin Andujar in the 1982 World Series. 

Yount and Molitor are obvious. Braun by default, and I think the 4th guy has to be Cooper. 

The fact that there isn't even 4 guys you can easily put there kinda says it all about the franchise. 

Yount, Molitor, Braun, and... probably say Higuera as the best pitcher. 

Guh. 

Mike Caldwell is somewhat underappreciated. If you liked Gantner standing up to Andujar, you have to like Caldwell standing up Reggie Jackson. Caldwell was 22-9 in 1978 - the first year they were actually a contender. He gave them the attitude they needed. And he pitched 293 innings that year with 23 complete games!

And maybe not Braun.....he has a chance to solidify his position in the next 6 weeks.

CAPackFan95 posted:

The fact that there isn't even 4 guys you can easily put there kinda says it all about the franchise. 

Yount, Molitor, Braun, and... probably say Higuera as the best pitcher. 

Guh. 

The starting pitching Mt. Rushmore might be the worst of any major league team. Higuera, Sheets, Caldwell, and two years of Pete Vuckovich?

Rollie? Stellar first year in Milwaukee, right?

Pikes Peak posted:

Who is/are the Brewers Mt Rushmore?

Yount, Molly and...

Mike Caldwell and Geoff Jenkins. 

MichiganPacker2 posted:

The starting pitching Mt. Rushmore might be the worst of any major league team. Higuera, Sheets, Caldwell, and two years of Pete Vuckovich?

Higuera, Sheets, Bosio, Caldwell. Pretty pathetic  

Padres probably in the running with Hoffman, Peavy, Benes, Ashby. 

Possibly the Rangers with Hough and Rogers and pick 2 of a few years of Ryan, Jenkins, Darvish, and Kevin Brown.