AJ Hawk PI Call

Yeah, I think it was one helluvan athletic play. Of course I think I could jump over Sproles, but still... that's pretty amazing. Shouldn't have warranted a flag...

Agree 100% I also thought the play where the Saint may have stepped out at the 2 yard line warranted more than a glance in the booth upstairs. Take the time to give it proper review.

Total and absolute bs call. I also loved that they didn't signal an end of the game at the end. Collinsworth was just begging for a flag at the end. No "Packers win" or anything. Just silence. Pathetic.

I think Mooch and Warner on NFL Network said it was a good call. I just glad it didn't impact the outcome of the game.

I did not see it, and I am positive they did not. Why on earth would they?

No one is that stupid.

Right, the Packers got screwed on at least three plays:

1.) The TD pass to Henderson. Looks to me like he stepped out. Ok, if he didn't, fair enough. But they didn't even review it, according to what I have been hearing. What happened to "all scoring plays will be reviewed this season?"

2.) The aforementioned Hawk PI call. Utter crap. It was a good play, no interference whatsoever.

3.) The touchback call on Jared Bush. He caught the ball at the one, had possession and a knee down. Play is dead right there. What he does after doesn't matter. Instead of the ball being at the one, where it should have been, the refs gave the Saints 19 free yards.

It looked like the refs were really trying to help the Saints tie the game up. Two horrible calls benefiting the Saints within a two minute period.

I know there was at least one other call that I was fuming over, I just can't recall what it is right now. I'll see it when I watch the game again.

quote:

Originally posted by tbor:
Total and absolute bs call. I also loved that they didn't signal an end of the game at the end. Collinsworth was just begging for a flag at the end. No "Packers win" or anything. Just silence. Pathetic.

Collinsworth can eat a bag of dicks. I'm sure he'll be whining about the last play on Inside the NFL tomorrow.

I'll throw the Saint's a bone too. Woodson deserved to get tossed after throwing a punch. And after Tramon went down, with no Woody, good grief the Packers should have been in a world of hurt.

I get this is the 1st game but for God sakes these ref's looked like they hadn't done a game in forever.

Another horrid call: 1st N.O's drive in the 3rd where GB IMO clearly stopped the Saints cold on a 3rd and short and the Packers got a HORRIBLE spot. Placed the ball right at the 1st down marker. Even old ass Al Michaels thought that was a "generous" spot. Ya no kidding

That spot WAS atrocious. But the Saints would've made it on 4th down anyway, right?

The PI call was indeed atrocious.
What is sad to me, though, is that ref had good position for the play, but he didn't have the angle to make that call. At best, it was a guess. And that's a shame; every team deserves better than that.
Also shameful that another ref didn't overrule that call.

The league can do better than this. I realize there are times when there are judgement calls that won't go your way (maybe the Bush punt play?), but making a wild-ass guess at a penalty is unexcusable.

Dilfer said it was PI, but also said it was a great play by Hawk because without the "PI", it was a TD to Sproles. Not saying I agree, just reporting what I hear.

What are Packer radio/TV people saying about this play?

quote:

Originally posted by packerboi:
Another horrid call: 1st N.O's drive in the 3rd where GB IMO clearly stopped the Saints cold on a 3rd and short and the Packers got a HORRIBLE spot. Placed the ball right at the 1st down marker. Even old ass Al Michaels thought that was a "generous" spot. Ya no kidding

Yup, that was it. I just couldn't believe they marked the ball where they did. He was clearly a yard short, and no chains, nothing. I saw the 1st and 10 on screen, and just about blew my stack.

Agreed on the Woody penalty. He should have been tossed.

It's funny. The league is doing more to review certain calls (every touchdown, for one), but based on tonight's performance from the officiating crew, and what little I saw of the preseason, they are blowing more calls than ever.

Ref had wrong angle on play, replay appeared to show no contact before AJ hit the ball. Glad D took care of business next play. Their stops in red zone were difference in game. Expect a "sorry bogus call" letter from NFL refs this week.

quote:

Originally posted by GreenBayLA:
Ref had wrong angle on play,

He was behind the play - no way he could tell when Hawk made contact with the receiver.

call.

I thought it looked like Hawk hit Sproles in the back of the head when he went up, this is the best I could do off the internet. Either way the Official clearily isn't the one that should be making the call.

after watching the replay again...I don't think Hawk touched him before the ball got there.....Sproles slipped and was falling down....

it looked like Sproles going left and then tried to reverse direction as he saw Brees roll out out of the pocket to the right...

.....Sproles' pivot foot slipped as he changed directkon and he started to go down....just then the ball is thrown and Hawk jumps into the play right as Sproles slipped....I'm guessing the back official thought Hawk caused contact as he saw Sproles go down...

the other officials should've gotten together to discuss since the play was the last play of the game....

horrible call

I can't wait to hear Peirra or whomever it is now discuss this call.

Thankfully the Packers stuffed them on the next play to end the game, but that was a terrible call. How do you make that call at the end of the game unless it's obvious (which it was not)? Even worse, the guy that made the call was not in the best position to actually see it.

If you watch the Hawk PI too, he was already grabbing for his flag before the "contact" was made. Seemed to me like he was anticipating contact. BS.

I don't understand the touchback rule either. Bush caught the ball on the one and as down. That is the dumbest rule ever if that is how it is wrote. Since he's already committed himself as down with a knee which he was doing.

Another call that was missed is the 3rd and short from the Packers 37 when McCarthy was livid. If you watch the play, Finley was the target downfield but was being held for a good 5 yards after the legal 5 yard zone including when he was trying to break right. Just absolutely pathetic and that was about as bad as you get.

That must be what it takes for the refs/league to keep the game close(er) and competitive.

Any contact on the play that could have conceivably drawn a flag appears to have occurred after Hawk touched the ball. I think TD is right in that the official anticipated contact and made the (bad) call.

Thanks for the explanation on what was making McCarthy rant on the unsuccessful third down conversion late in the game. Taken in context, it sure looks like every call late in the game was designed to help the Saints win.

Are we getting to the point with the officiating that we're down there with the NBA and Professional Wrestling?

I just think the officials have a preconceived idea of what will happen on a play as stated earlier. since the ball was thrown to Sproles and Hawk appeared to have made contact from the angle the official had, he threw the flag because he ASSUMED Hawk hit the diminutive Sproles. On the 3rd down play where Finley was held, Rodgers did not throw to him because he needed to keep the clock going and Finley was closely covered (being held). Had Rodgers thrown to Finley I think there is a good chance holding is called. It seems the officials are more likely to throw a flag if the receiver is targeted by the pass.

I agree TwinRig, but MM is right: holding doesn't require a pass to be tossed in the vicinity and the refs botched it... I like the play call now with third and short Finley should be the target...

The "officials" of this game, both on the field and in the replay booth, all need to report to Goodell's woodshed for a tongue lashing & a refresher course in NFL rules. Some penalties called were wrong, ball placement wrong, checking replays wrong. Horrendous crew!!!!

To be fair, Hawk's hand made contact with Sproles' helmet. It wasn't a personal foul type contact with the helmet, but while the ball was in the air he made contact with it. If he hadn't touched his helmet I don't know if it would have been called. I don't know that I would have called it because the contact didn't prevent Sproles from catching it, Hawk batting down the pass did, but clearly they were looking for any contact and it just so happened Hawk laid a hand on the one area they're pickiest about.

I agree though that it was a terrible crew. That Jarrett Bush downed punt call was absolute BS IMO. If he caught that punt at the 10 and slide to the 8, you better believe they would spot it at the 10. He caught the punt at the 1, put his knee down without crossing the goalline and then slid into the endzone. All the non-holding calls against CM3 were ridiculous as well. He had that Tackle beat at least 3 times and got held and there was contact to his facemask.

I think the inconsistentcy of the calls and rules is what drives us all nuts.

Why does the ball have to cross the plane of the goal line to be a touchDOWN, yet the same does not apply for touchBACKS?

Why does a receiver have to have control of the ball "through the receiving process" to score a touchdown, yet, as soon as the ball crosses the plane on a running play, it's a TD even if the back or QB fumbles before "completing the process of the play"?

The no call face mask penalty on AR12 in the Cards playoff game still rankles me. The referee has one job, and that is to watch the QB. The defender had ARs facemask all the way to the ground, yet no flag. WTF was the ref looking at???

I totally agree that refs anticipate calls and the flag comes out regardless. How many times did we see Harris and Woodson get called for illegal contact o plays that were across the field from the ball. Seemed to happen 2x a game.

The officials have an impossibly tough job; the speed and athleticism of the players these days is off the charts. But I swear, sometimes, I have to wonder about conspiracy theories.

If Hawk is making a play on the ball how does contact factor into it? He's facing the QB and damn near vaulted Sproles altogether going for the ball.

Either way it's just one of those calls. You win some you lose some. Move on.

quote:

Originally posted by PackLandVA:
Dilfer said it was PI, but also said it was a great play by Hawk because without the "PI", it was a TD to Sproles. Not saying I agree, just reporting what I hear.

What are Packer radio/TV people saying about this play?

Dilfer is right, Hawk made contact with te helmet and without it it was likely a TD. It was close enough to go either way but the call wasn't out-of-line.

ok...I'm confused...

if Hawk did indeed touch Sproles helmet...he still knocked the ball away...

how does that equate with Sproles getting the touchdown if he doesn't hit Sproles in the head?

touched him or didn't touch him....Hawk swatted the ball away...no way Sproles catches it with/without contact.

I still have not seen any contact by Hawk...I will rewatch the play when I see another replay as I didn't have any power last night to record the game...but from what I saw over and over was Sproles slipping on the turf as he pivoted to change directions.

Simply saying he broke up a play that would have resulted in a TD. Hawk was behind Sproles, Sproles would have made that catch easily if Hawk didn't go for the ball.

right...

got it

BTW....I just saw the replay again on ESPN News....Hawk did not touch Sproles helmet...maybe his elbow hit him in the helmet AFTER contact with the ball...but not before....

great athletic play...horrible call...

Here's the actual rule, and these two instances would seem to apply in this case:

• (a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.
• (b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

Don't see it based on all the replays I've seen. Perhaps there's another replay out there that'll show something different, but it sure looks like a bad call to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
If Hawk is making a play on the ball how does contact factor into it? He's facing the QB and damn near vaulted Sproles altogether going for the ball.

Either way it's just one of those calls. You win some you lose some. Move on.

I think regardless of whether you're making a play on the ball, Sproles had position and Hawk made contact while the ball was in the air. Honestly though I think Hawk made a great play, penalty or no penalty. If Sproles gets that TD then we're probably heading for OT. While penalty gave the Saints a better chance at a TD, I would rather force them to have to make 2 outstanding plays to tie the game (a TD and a 2 point) than just 1(just a 2 point).

You're absolutely right though, time to move on. I guess when your team plays such a well executed game (aside from STs) then plays like these are the only ones worthy of discussion! It's a good problem to have!

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:

quote:

Originally posted by PackLandVA:
Dilfer said it was PI, but also said it was a great play by Hawk because without the "PI", it was a TD to Sproles. Not saying I agree, just reporting what I hear.

What are Packer radio/TV people saying about this play?

Dilfer is right, Hawk made contact with te helmet and without it it was likely a TD. It was close enough to go either way but the call wasn't out-of-line.

I didn't see any contact to the helmet.

quote:

Originally posted by SanDiegoPackFan:
right...

got it

BTW....I just saw the replay again on ESPN News....Hawk did not touch Sproles helmet...maybe his elbow hit him in the helmet AFTER contact with the ball...but not before....

great athletic play...horrible call...

Right here.

And the reason I'm still posting on it is this: Hawk gets blamed for not making enough big plays, and that was a huge, spectacular play. In my mind, he saved the game with it.

I haven't gotten a chance to watch a replay of the game yet but there was a play on the final drive where the ball appeared to hit the ground and wobble a bit as the receiver caught it. I was at a bar so only saw the 1 replay and didn't hear the commentary really well but they said something to the effect of it seemed like he had control.

Was it a catch or should it have been reviewed?

As far as the Hawk play say that was a WR jumping over a smaller DB to prevent an INT, no way they call PI in that scenario.

All the replays that I saw didn't have a good angle on the Hawk play. Initially, I thought maybe his knee on the leap may have bumped him before the ball got there. Anybody see a replay that is obvious? Note, it was a heckuva a play, penalty or not.